Bedini/Cole Bipolar switch (or how to drastically reduce your input!)

[ren]

I built a little two pole window motor today out of leftovers to experiment with JB/RC bipolar switch. I am blown away.

I have been drawing 100ma out of a 1.3 amp hour battery for nearly 2 hours now and battery voltage has dropped 0.03 of a volt. All this time the rotor has been zoomin along. It doesnt take a genius to see that something funky is going down

I just have the bridge connected back onto the run battery permanently, it isnt set up to pulse like it is specified. If I disconnect the bridge the battery drops straight away, but when the bridge is reconnected it crawls back up. Its no perpetual self runner, but I just threw this thing together this afternoon!!!! There is no charge battery, although it can be configured that way if desired.

If you love your Bedini circuits guys you have to build this one!!! Thankyou John and Ron!

[Jetijs]

Can you post the circuit that you are using?

[N O G]

Good Stuff

hi there Ren, like what youve done ...ive never had time to do one of these motors yet but looks interesting .have you tried putting some load on the rotor to see what happens.

[ren]

hey jet, its this one here. Pots on all resistors. The one between the pnp base and the small npn (I used mpsa06) will dramatically decrease amp draw if its high resistance (1k plus). Still tinkering with it, I'll post the exact schematic I used soon. This schematic isolates the power winding at all times except for when it fires, not like the SG circuit in which the coil is an extension of the run battery. Thats my understanding anyway.

NOG, this rotor is so tiny, and I have no way to load it properly. Im building a bigger one at the moment, it will be able to be loaded sufficiently.

[Jetijs]

Thanks ren
Can you tell me your coil specs? And what would the best number of turns be?
I am not sure if I understood right what this circuit does. So, for what I see, the top PNP transistor is open and could conduct current if there wasn't the bottom NPN transistor which is closed till the trigger winding induces some current and opens the middle NPN transistor. When the trigger winding is energized, it opens the middle NPN transistor which in turn opens the bottom NPN transistor and current can now flow through the power winding. This makes the wheel turn and when the magnet, that induced the current on trigger winding, is already far away from the coil, it stops inducing anything and both NPN transistors turn OFF. Is this right? Maybe someone can explain what is happening in the circuit better?
Also, is this like backpoping the battery, when in one cycle the battery energizes the coil and in the other cycle the battery gets the inductive spike back? Wouldn't this damage the battery in time?
Thank you,
Jetijs

[ren]

Hi Jet,

I am far from experienced mate but my understanding goes as such.

The top pnp effectively isolates the power winding from the source until the trigger winding does its thing and tells it to open. The two npns are a darlington pair. The funny thing I found was when the trigger windings resistance is raised into the "Ks" the thing doesnt go solid state like an SG would. If you let it get up to speed and then raise the resistance on the trigger winding it still rotates normally.

I put this circuit on my trifilar monopole and the sounds it makes are very different. I think it fires at a different time too, I cant be sure but I got the impression it fired closer to TDC and it felt like it had more torque than the two previous sg circuits did. Its a really sharp quick pulse when resistance is raised. Like a little kung foo power chop!

I was a little confused at first by the pnp, please note the emitter is connected to power! The transistor pair I used were the 2n3055(npn) and mj2955(pnp). These are handy because one side of the casing can be used to attach the power winding to (the collector) and the other side can go to the bridge. Bolt it all in and its easy to remove if necessary.

The bridge provides feed back to the battery, though my understanding is that it should be pulsed across a capacitor. I think when this is set right and there is a cap over the terminals of the battery the battery wont even register anything leaving it. The cap dumps through the power winding and it is promptly returned via bridge.

Interestingly if the bridges negative is hooked up the thing goes solid state when you hook the + and - leads up. I had to put them on first then hook the bridge up. Im not sure my setup is working how it was intended, but it does reduce amp draw significantly for almost no loss in speed or torque as far as I can tell.

Like I said this was made out of leftover parts, the coil is #24SWG and is probably 200 turns. The more the better. The window worked better for me than the monopole did. Simple to make too and you can use neos, I dont know why more people arent making them. Use the sg circuit to test it and get it running. And watch out for the small npn (mpsa06) its terminals are a bit funky, base is in the middle

[Jetijs]

So you are using this small NPN at the trigger winding side and the 2n3055 as the bottom one?
Thanks for the info BTW

[ren]

yup just like the schematic. Hook up the mpsa06 up like a simple sg circuit minus the power winding. The pnp and the npn are then the gates at either end of the power winding. You could build the full circuit so it switched on the north and south, you would just build this exact circuit again and invert it and connect it to the same power winding, you would need another way to trigger it for souths only though. trigger winding with reverse polarity or hall, opto etc.

No worries Jet

[Aaron]

cap battery isolation

The bridge provides feed back to the battery, though my understanding is that it should be pulsed across a capacitor.

I think when this is set right and there is a cap over the terminals of the battery the battery wont even register anything leaving it.

The first you got the money

The second: By the battery not registering something, you are implying that what you want is a way to isolate the cap from the battery. How?

You're talking some powerful specifics here.

[ren]

Yeah Aaron, I think this circuit has some real potential

I reckon a commutator designed to disconnect the battery from the cap when the circuit fires fits the bill nicely. I dont have that on my current setup, though I plan on implementing it into my larger build.

A good friend once showed me something so simple yet so profound regarding this principle.

Get a cap and briefly connect it to the terminals of a battery. Disconnect it and use it on a load. Now, what did you just take from the battery? The battery never completed its circuit, you just kinda cloned a portion of it. Its a little more complicated than that, but I note JBs SS pulse charger (the one with fets and huge cap bank) seems to use this principle. I believe it dates back to Tesla and so called "charge siphoning".

All that needs to be done is just before the circuit fires the negative or positive leg between the battery and cap needs to be disconnected and then connected again after the circuit has finished its pulse. The pulse is still collected into the cap, but the circuit never allowed a complete cycle back to the terminals of the battery.

Anyway, some interesting principles to test

[gmeat]

Yeah Aaron, I think this circuit has some real potential

I reckon a commutator designed to disconnect the battery from the cap when the circuit fires fits the bill nicely. I dont have that on my current setup, though I plan on implementing it into my larger build.

A good friend once showed me something so simple yet so profound regarding this principle.

Get a cap and briefly connect it to the terminals of a battery. Disconnect it and use it on a load. Now, what did you just take from the battery? The battery never completed its circuit, you just kinda cloned a portion of it. Its a little more complicated than that, but I note JBs SS pulse charger (the one with fets and huge cap bank) seems to use this principle. I believe it dates back to Tesla and so called "charge siphoning".

All that needs to be done is just before the circuit fires the negative or positive leg between the battery and cap needs to be disconnected and then connected again after the circuit has finished its pulse. The pulse is still collected into the cap, but the circuit never allowed a complete cycle back to the terminals of the battery.

Anyway, some interesting principles to test

Hi Ren,


Very nice work.How many magnets are you using?.and how are they aligned NSNS?.I havent had much time to experiment lately as I blew a couple of transistors on my SSG when i was trying to run an attraction motor off the back end of the SSG(Dumb move) and I've been working on other ideas.Keep up the good work


-Gary

[Aaron]

recycle energy

All that needs to be done is just before the circuit fires the negative or positive leg between the battery and cap needs to be disconnected and then connected again after the circuit has finished its pulse. The pulse is still collected into the cap, but the circuit never allowed a complete cycle back to the terminals of the battery.

There are some very interesting ways to do it.

As the title of this thread, drastically reduce your input is definitely in the right chronological order of events to work out before full scale self running and literally, have the charge in the cap reduce what leaves the battery is a way to do it.........if you can convince the front battery the cap isn't even there, you'll have it for real. This can be done mechanically with switches or solid state components.

[ren]

Aaron if you have any ideas for solid state switching Id love to see them. The biggest problem I have is finding a switch that doesnt complete the circuit! This is where mechanical switching can be superior IMO.

Interesting way to put it Aaron, I would have said it the other way around like....

If you can convince the cap the battery isnt there.....

Well lots to learn anyways.

Gmeat the rotor has two poles @ 180 degrees. One is north and one is south, in traditional window configuration. It only fires once per revolution in this particular config, though the nature of the window coil takes advantage of both poles. The magnets I used were small neos 10mmx10mmx10mm three per pole, just what I had on hand.

[gmeat]

Aaron if you have any ideas for solid state switching Id love to see them. The biggest problem I have is finding a switch that doesnt complete the circuit! This is where mechanical switching can be superior IMO.

Interesting way to put it Aaron, I would have said it the other way around like....

If you can convince the cap the battery isnt there.....

Well lots to learn anyways.

Gmeat the rotor has two poles @ 180 degrees. One is north and one is south, in traditional window configuration. It only fires once per revolution in this particular config, though the nature of the window coil takes advantage of both poles. The magnets I used were small neos 10mmx10mmx10mm three per pole, just what I had on hand.

Hi Ren,


Thx for the info and it looks like your getting some nice results.On a side note is there any such thing as a capacitor with 2 terminals on both sides for a total of 4?

-Gary

[ren]

I think there is Gmeat, but it shouldnt make any difference, bar making it a little easier to hook up. The caps I have pulled out of microwaves have four terminals.