Bedini/Cole Bipolar switch (or how to drastically reduce your input!)

[tjnlsn255]

Cap in Parallel versus series with the battery?

Hi,

I am so glad I found my way to this site.... the info here is AWSOME!

I am new at this so please take is easy on me ok?

If the Cap is in Parallel with the battery then the battery is not isolated by it but its like a second battery, right?

If the cap was placed in series with the positive lead or negative lead of the battery then only the pulsing would get to the battery, right? But in that case would the positive or negative potential of the battery still be felt at the other end of the cap....... I am having a really hard time with how caps help or hurt this whole technology in general.... any insight would be great.....

One more thing.... would a TIP120 darlington pair work in place if the little/big NPNs?

Thank you.....

Todd

Yeah Aaron, I think this circuit has some real potential

I reckon a commutator designed to disconnect the battery from the cap when the circuit fires fits the bill nicely. I dont have that on my current setup, though I plan on implementing it into my larger build.

A good friend once showed me something so simple yet so profound regarding this principle.

Get a cap and briefly connect it to the terminals of a battery. Disconnect it and use it on a load. Now, what did you just take from the battery? The battery never completed its circuit, you just kinda cloned a portion of it. Its a little more complicated than that, but I note JBs SS pulse charger (the one with fets and huge cap bank) seems to use this principle. I believe it dates back to Tesla and so called "charge siphoning".

All that needs to be done is just before the circuit fires the negative or positive leg between the battery and cap needs to be disconnected and then connected again after the circuit has finished its pulse. The pulse is still collected into the cap, but the circuit never allowed a complete cycle back to the terminals of the battery.

Anyway, some interesting principles to test

[Tehnoman]

[..]
A good friend once showed me something so simple yet so profound regarding this principle.

Get a cap and briefly connect it to the terminals of a battery. Disconnect it and use it on a load. Now, what did you just take from the battery? The battery never completed its circuit, you just kinda cloned a portion of it. Its a little more complicated than that, but I note JBs SS pulse charger (the one with fets and huge cap bank) seems to use this principle. I believe it dates back to Tesla and so called "charge siphoning".
[..]

Well, that is not quite true. As a physicist I must say, that current flows. And when current flows, it means - circuit is completed. It is true that time is very short, current flow depends on voltage, that is between cap plates, as current flows, voltage increases and current flow decreases. And when voltage has reached ~ battery voltage, circuit is broken. More simple explanation would be, that at "+" cap side there is absence of electrons, aka electrons was given to battery "-" pole, but at "-" cap side there is excess of electrons, taken from battery "+" pole.

So, conclusion? Battery is depleting, slowly, but it does. We haven't done any "magical" cloning, leaving battery intact. Other question is - whether cap, connected to load, does give more energy than got from battery. And with my present physics knowledge I can't answer it.

[theremart]

Back EMF on the SSG.

One day I had two SSG's and I decided to run one and put a capacitor on the primary side of the SSG to see what voltage was there. I found I had from 2 - 5 V with my neo magnets. So it hit me... the SSG has to be fighting that voltage in order to supply power to the coil.

The advantage of disconnecting the cap from the circuit, is you are building up the generated voltage in the cap as the wheel spins...

But I never did take the time to measure the polarity of the cap.... I was using a DC cap at the time hmm... If I switched over to an AC cap.... that might be and education!....

[ren]

Well, that is not quite true. As a physicist I must say, that current flows. And when current flows, it means - circuit is completed. It is true that time is very short, current flow depends on voltage, that is between cap plates, as current flows, voltage increases and current flow decreases. And when voltage has reached ~ battery voltage, circuit is broken. More simple explanation would be, that at "+" cap side there is absence of electrons, aka electrons was given to battery "-" pole, but at "-" cap side there is excess of electrons, taken from battery "+" pole.

So, conclusion? Battery is depleting, slowly, but it does. We haven't done any "magical" cloning, leaving battery intact. Other question is - whether cap, connected to load, does give more energy than got from battery. And with my present physics knowledge I can't answer it.

Ok, so current flows in a capacitor when it is parallel to a source? So if I connect a capacitor to a battery the battery will slowly go flat. Perhaps if there is a break down of the dieletric internally....but it would take a very long time for that battery to go flat if that capacitor functioned correctly.

What I am exploring is the idea of extending the run time by NEVER allowing a complete return to the source (in this circumstance the battery). I see it more like moving potential around rather than current. If the cap is disconnected from the source just before it is used in the working circuit then only the capacitance is used, but this still allows work to be done. Im not saying the battery will run indefinately, I am exploring the possibility it may run for alot longer.

[Chip Shorter]

Current will not flow without a voltage drop. Eliminate a voltage drop and you will eliminate current flow.

[elias]

Stepwise cap charging

Hi Ren,

I read a paper published in IEEE which performed experiments on charging a capacitor mainly cited by Tom Bearden. It was interesting to note that the more the steps in the charging process increased the less heat was produced on the resistor charging the capacitor.

Suppose we want to charge a capacitor to V volts
1- connect it directly to V volts, the wasted energy is E
2- connect it first to V/2 then to V, the wasted energy is E/2
3- connect it first to V/4 then to V/2 then to 3V/4 then to V, the wasted energy is E/4
...
...
At last you can do this in N steps and theoretically the wasted energy is E/N and with significant amount of steps you may reach zero wasted energy.
Now you can see that if no heat is produced on the resistor charging the capacitor you can conclude no current is being used for charging the battery.
This experiment will show us that a capacitor is mainly being charged by the potential and the current is only wasted stuff.

Elias

[Chip Shorter]

Supposed you pulsed a rather substantial inductor. We all know voltage leads current in an inductor by as much as 90 degrees. You would need inrush current but suppose you had an inductor and were to discharge and recharge before major collapse of the field? Suppose this inductor was wound in a way to reduce capacitance, a major cause of current in a conventional wound inductor. Next lets make that inductor bifiler and recover the power-out of phase by 180 degrees. Next lets add a capacitor and put the whole circuit in resonance.

[ren]

and you can do it all and make gobs of ozone

[Tehnoman]

Ok, so current flows in a capacitor when it is parallel to a source? So if I connect a capacitor to a battery the battery will slowly go flat. Perhaps if there is a break down of the dieletric internally....but it would take a very long time for that battery to go flat if that capacitor functioned correctly.

I think you got me wrong. The case was, that if we connect cap to battery, then to load and repeated this process, the battery would go down similar as it would be connected directly. With classic knowledge it should do it even faster, ~ 2 times. Why? Because, when charging cap, approximately same energy amount that is given to cap, is lost in heat, while charging cap. I remember proof with summing current flow and voltage drop across the resistance.

What I am exploring is the idea of extending the run time by NEVER allowing a complete return to the source (in this circumstance the battery). I see it more like moving potential around rather than current. If the cap is disconnected from the source just before it is used in the working circuit then only the capacitance is used, but this still allows work to be done. Im not saying the battery will run indefinately, I am exploring the possibility it may run for alot longer.

Again I think that you didn't get my point. Even in process you described it is complete return to source, cap is just middle worker - it takes energy from battery, do work with it, and then again takes energy from battery. And when taking energy from battery - it is just this complete return we wan't to avoid. When cap takes energy from battery, electrons flow out of "-" pole of battery, and flow in "+" pole of battery. And that is complited circuit form battery's view!

Hi Ren,

I read a paper published in IEEE which performed experiments on charging a capacitor mainly cited by Tom Bearden. It was interesting to note that the more the steps in the charging process increased the less heat was produced on the resistor charging the capacitor.

Suppose we want to charge a capacitor to V volts
1- connect it directly to V volts, the wasted energy is E
2- connect it first to V/2 then to V, the wasted energy is E/2
3- connect it first to V/4 then to V/2 then to 3V/4 then to V, the wasted energy is E/4
...
...
At last you can do this in N steps and theoretically the wasted energy is E/N and with significant amount of steps you may reach zero wasted energy.
Now you can see that if no heat is produced on the resistor charging the capacitor you can conclude no current is being used for charging the battery.
This experiment will show us that a capacitor is mainly being charged by the potential and the current is only wasted stuff.

Elias

This is something more interesting. Yet, there should be done some calculations, but my intuition says it could be true. And it is not hard to realize this in N steps - with variable resistor and voltage division, am I wrong?

But yet, as I explained, this would only eliminate energy loss across resistance. It would not reduce energy given to cap. So, with this kind of cap charging, we could try to achieve similar performance as it could be from direct-from-battery.

Sorry for my "pesimistic" view, but from my experience, cap charging is the process, where current flows. It can be easy observed with RC circuit and ammeter in series and voltmeter across cap.

My own experiments will begin only after first parts will be arrived, so that is more 1 or 2 days to wait and then I will start to build some of the experiments you guys are doing here and post my results and my as next physicist view.

I hope that all will go well.

[Aaron]

voltage and current

Caps can charge up a bit by themselves with the terminals totally open. I think most people have seen this. Short the cap and the voltage climbs a bit. Where is the current here?

Current is slower than voltage. The electrons are moving at a few inches per hour while the voltage gas (heaviside flow - both the positive photon potential and the negative photon potential in both directions at same time) is moving at nearly light speed in a closed loop. Those are the 3 flows on a circuit when the loop is closed.

When using a "potential charge" or "time charge", the loop is only closed just long enough to tell the potential where to go. The the loop is then opened before current can flow and the potential INSTANTANEOUSLY appears at the destination.

Isn't this the basic concept that people are experiencing on the batteries they're charging with an SG?

[Chip Shorter]

Caps can charge up a bit by themselves with the terminals totally open. I think most people have seen this. Short the cap and the voltage climbs a bit. Where is the current here?

Current is slower than voltage. The electrons are moving at a few inches per hour while the voltage gas (heaviside flow - both the positive photon potential and the negative photon potential in both directions at same time) is moving at nearly light speed in a closed loop. Those are the 3 flows on a circuit when the loop is closed.

When using a "potential charge" or "time charge", the loop is only closed just long enough to tell the potential where to go. The the loop is then opened before current can flow and the potential INSTANTANEOUSLY appears at the destination.

Isn't this the basic concept that people are experiencing on the batteries they're charging with an SG?

Very important concept here.

[Tehnoman]

[..]
When using a "potential charge" or "time charge", the loop is only closed just long enough to tell the potential where to go. The the loop is then opened before current can flow and the potential INSTANTANEOUSLY appears at the destination.

Isn't this the basic concept that people are experiencing on the batteries they're charging with an SG?

It could be, as far as I can understand from information gathered here. But it is strange - RC circuits are quite well investigated, yet no such effects was detected with conventional voltmeter at cap side. Maybe this is more complicated phenomena than usual RC circuit stuff. It could depend on R (resistance) value - when observing RC circuit, we are using rather big R values, if compared with plain Cu-wire resistance, so we can observe cap charging process with ampermeter and voltmeter (commonly, osciliscope). And it could be, that in directly unobservable case (resistance is only wire) these effects start to show up.

Well, there is another interesting experiment to be done. More and more use shows to high speed mechanical switches.

[lighty]

I read a paper published in IEEE which performed experiments on charging a capacitor mainly cited by Tom Bearden.

I haven't seen that paper, could you please upload it somewhere or at least advise on it's exact nomenclature number so that I can find it? Thx!

[ren]

When cap takes energy from battery, electrons flow out of "-" pole of battery, and flow in "+" pole of battery. And that is complited circuit form battery's view!

Hi Technoman. I appreciate your input but I still dont understand what your are trying to say exactly. Mainly what you said above. When cap takes energy from a battery electrons flow out of the negative terminal through the cap and into the positive terminal. Is this what you mean?

I cant see how the electrons jump the gap?

[Aaron]

electron flow

The electrons do flow from the negative side towards the positive side over the circuit.

But the source of the electrons is from the copper atoms in the wire and not necessarily from the battery.

When the positive Heaviside potential moves from vacuum space towards the positive terminal on the battery and then over the wire towards the negative terminal, that positive potential attracts to it and pulls an electron out of the 3rd electron field of a copper atom. That electron jumps to the next spot and the next and so forth..they mostly jiggle up and down perpendicular to the wire but the overall trend is in the direction of the positive terminal...slowly a few inches per hour. Of course that is only possible when the loop is closed long enough for the "electron current" to get moving.

Also, this is assuming electrons even exist, which to my knowledge, there is zero proof of electrons...only models that seem to indicate there might be an electron based on observed effects.

Also, amperage has never been directly measured in history.