Bedini kit help please

[Vortex]

I purchased the Bedini 8 to 52V 6 Inch Brushless
Motor Fan Full Kit at rpmgt.org

I really want to make this work.
I have no business trying to make it work because
I know NOTHING about anything.

In the video FanSSGconstruction.wmv
I'm not trying to rewind the coils; I was just looking for more info.
I see @1:30 mins, only 2 wires cut between the coils
and the circuit board, the other video states "2 wires" also.
The fan in my kit has 4 wires between:
2 single wires and 2 twisted together to the circuit board
from the coils.

Is this going to make a difference?
Is this fan able to be used, as it is, for a Bedini?

I'm a software programmer and I know it is very
hard to give idiot-proof instructions for idiots like me.

I don't want to make waves or complain.
I'd like to point out why I'm confused about a few things
and ask some questions.

Remember I can't read / understand a circuit layout or
BrushlessEnergizer1.jpg (attachment)

Points that caused Mr. Know-Nothing (me) confusion with the video
Brushles_Motor_Fan_Bedini_Energiser_Overview_And_A ssembly.wm
v

p1) stated: The statement is made there is a single wire is making up

the coils. (I don't know were in the video that was said)
This started my confusion.
A single wire means to me, I'd expect to find a single start/end pair of

wires leaving all 4 coils.
I find 4 wires soldered to the fan's circuit board.
I must conclude then:
Is there 2 single wires making up 2 coils each
to have 4 wires total exiting the coils and soldered to the
fan's circuit board?

I guessing it was meant that the coils were not double wire wound
when it was said a "single wire" was used?

P2) @16:52 "and then you'll find two other wires soldered to
the circuit."
This jives with P1, but I have 4 wires and 3 solder joints.
2 single wires and 2 twisted together, making 3 solder joints on the
fan's circuit board.

p3) @18:12 "so what you'll have is 8 wires coming off this circuit."
That statement makes me think I'll have 8 wires exiting
the fan housing.
? looking at BrushlessEnergizer1.jpg I think I only see
5 wires exiting the fan housing.

Is 5 wires exiting the fan housing correct?

With what I am seeing (wires) and what I understand at this point,
I make 4 wire cuts (top side) at each coil and cut the 4 wires off the

fan's circuit board. That would give 4 start/end pairs for each coil.
That gives 8 totals wires, is this what I need to do and is correct?

Looking at the circuit layout in BrushlessEnergizer1.jpg (BEpic)
I see only 5 wires exiting the fan housing, is this correct?
8 wires, 4 start/end pairs for each coil.
I count a total of 7 new wires added inside the fan housing,
2 connecting opposite side coils and 5 leaving the fan
Is this correct?

I have 2 MJL21194, an internet search tells me the
TIPO of MJL21194 is NPN and the P/OUT
1-2-3 is BCE. Now I know the MJL21194 is the NPN
on the diagram (BEpic).
Question: BCE (pins) are left to right with the
label MJL21194 upwards and readable, Correct?

I have 1 2N6509G, an internet search indicates, to me,
2N6509G is the item marked SCR (K,A,G) in circuit?

I've attached Questions.jpg that have a few questions
about BrushlessEnergizer1.jpg.

Many thanks ..
If I get this to work, I could document in greater detail
how someone like myself could build these.
Randy

[ren]

a simple monopole replication may be easier for you to start with if you have ZERO experience.

For the fan please read and follow instructions found here

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-must-see.html

Imhotep has done lots of these fans, as well as others, and everything you need to get it running should be in that thread,,

S

[ashtweth]

Randy, thats a buss bar i think..

[ren]

Randy, thats a buss bar i think..

[Vortex]

Still confused

I cut the circuit board loose, one wire broke loose
after looking at it for so long.

I believe I'm seeing, on my fan:
two coils at 90 degrees have double windings
two coils at other 90 degrees have single windings

Is that normal, is that expected?
Am I wrong?
See attachment MyFanCoils.jpg


One Schematics shows working with 8 wires,
5 leaving the fan housing (I think) and another
shows 4 wires and 4 leaving the housing.
See attachment Schematics.jpg

I don't understand what to do with my wires
start cutting wires to make 8 or use the
4 I have?

I'm flat on my back trying to learn how to roll-over
Learning how to take baby steps comes later

thanks
Randy

[Vortex]

a simple monopole replication may be easier for you to start with if you have ZERO experience.

For the fan please read and follow instructions found here

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-must-see.html

Imhotep has done lots of these fans, as well as others, and everything you need to get it running should be in that thread,,

S

Thank you for helping, but the words mean nothing to me.
I don't know a monopole from a non-monopole.
I'm without any knowledge.
I know a red wire from a black wire, that's it.

That's why I didn't post where you suggested and dirty up
the conversation of knowing with my total unknowing questions.

I have joined the forum at www.imhotepslab.com and will
watch the instructional videos .. those should start to help.
Lingo .. I can't even ask questions correctly

The grand cannon of unknowing, without bridge building materials in sight.

Pictures and videos bridge unknowing the lingo gap

Thank..

[ren]

Vortex, I started out like that too. Didnt know a thing, grab the wrong end of the soldering iron etc

You can find out just about anything on the net if you really look for it.

For starters you need some basic understanding of what happens when current flows through a wire, especially when that wire is formed into a coil/solenoid. When you understand the basics of what happens there then you can look at John Bedinis simple monopole alot easier. The monopole is his reference to this design, where all magnets are of same polarity facing outwards, also called the north pole motor/energizer or School Girl.

Basic operation goes as such. The wheel (or fan) is started by the user (give it a spin) and the magnets which pass the coil induce voltage into it. This little trigger signal is used to switch the coil on with a power source at just the right time. The beauty of it is the timing is all sorted for you, you dont need halls or optos or any other form of sensor to time the device. The magnet does all of this according to the resistance you set on the trigger wire.

I may not be the best with the fans, others have done more with them but for starters you need to figure out whether you can use the wire on the coils or if you need to rewind them. Use your multi meter ( if you have one ) and set it to read resistance (ohms). Make sure each end of the coils are cleaned from insulation and place you meter on them, until you have a reading. This indicates that you have one common wire. You can also do this by connecting each end to the terminals of the battery, it should buck the fan a little when you have two of the same. Just use a 9v.

The easiest way to get this thing to work I think is get it running off one transistor (switch (mjl21194 or 2n3055)) one coil. Multicoils can confuse the beginner.

I would still suggest a really simple replication, like 400 turns bifilar on a bobbin/spool and a roller skate wheel etc with a few magnets on it. All the nitty gritty details can be found at the monopole groups, try here http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/B...nopole3/files/

If you still want to go ahead with the fan, then work one coil at a time. Get one running sweet before you try to tackle all four.


EDIT: If you read through information on brushless fans you will probably find that they are not always wound exactly how we would like them to be. Imhoteps diagram shows that even when they arent wound bifilar you can still use the original windings. Ricks diagram shows each coil as being a single winding each. What he has done is wire two of them in series (like two shoelaces with one end tied to another for double the length) and used these two as the trigger coil. The other two are wired in series and this is used for the power coil. Though they are separate, the magnets that pass the trigger coil are timed to pass the power coil at the same time (by geometry) and thus it still works. If the magnets didnt match up then it would fire at the wrong time.

The coils can be trickey too, if you have the wrong ends joined it will produce a magnetic field of opposite polarity to what you desire. Do this simple experiment if you can. Get about 100grams of 20-25 gauge magnet wire and wind it around an iron core, a bolt for example. Clean the insulation off the wire (it must be insulated) ends and apply those ends to the terminals of a battery. What happened to your bolt when you place, say, a small paper clip next to it? It produces a magnetic field when the circuit is complete. Now place a small magnet nearby and connect it up again. Note what happens if you switch the polarity of the coils wires! That is if you take the end of the coil and place it on the negative terminal and the start on the positive. Switch these connections and note that the polarity of the electromagnet changes too. This is one thing that can make hooking the fan up a challenge for a beginner. You have to make sure you have the coils hooked up the correct way. Alot easier to do if you start off with just one coil.

Oh and you're are correct about the pins for the MJL. Google just about any part number and you can find a datasheet which should give you pin details if you are uncertain about a part.

[DennisForrest]

Anyone may share the video FanSSGconstruction.wmv?

I purcharsed the same kit, but unfortunately the cd-rom included are unreadable ...

Many thanks!

[Spearmaster]

Hi Vortex,

...Sorry, I didn't realize this post was a year old.