Bedini Scope Shots

[Sephiroth]

Hi Everyone,

As you know I recently got myself an oscilloscope!

Here are a few shots from the scope.

Firstly, here is a fairly standard H-Wave which you would expect to see when there is no load (ie. the charging battery is disconnected)

hwave.jpg

and here are some anomylous waves that I don't quite yet understand!

This one shows a delayed "Off Pulse" (flyback). You see the coil turns on around TDC (Top Dead Centre - when the magnet is directly over the stator) then turns off, then there is a pause, then the flyback shows up! No idea how that is happening.

wierdwave3.jpg

and these shows a resonating "off pulse", or rather a series of spikes... very odd... only shows up when using two coils with thier recovery windings wired in series and using a reed switch as a trigger.

wierdwave.jpg

wierdwave2.jpg

Any comments on the anomylous scope shots would be appreciated, but feel free to ignore me and use this thread upload your own shots!

[Bodkins]

hi Sephiroth
First can i thank you for the youtube presentation of the bedini setup it help me noend.

with the bedini setup at first i could never get the tigger to work, So i used a Ossie Callan (Think thats his name cant remember) setup with a reed switch trying to ossilate the reed with a small magnet for more pulses per pass.
I didnt have a oscilloscope at the time but Attachment 1033 maybe what i would have seen!

Would it be possible to get some info for you Sephiroth i dont now how to work out frequency with the scope what the calclations i need to do?
working on the fan and imhotep light charger also got a 555 Noise-Maker Kit > Maplin which is useful tool

Once again Sephiroth you made alot of difference in my understanding of the setup.

[Sephiroth]

Glad you liked the vids

Lots of wierd stuff is showing up using the reed switch as a trigger unfortunatly I can't get a decent photo of some of them.

Both theDaftman and ktservicekorp appear to have achieved overunity with the reed switch... really want to see what I can do with a hall sensor but don't have one lying around at the moment

Another scope shot. This time from my toroidial oscillator currently drawing 70ma.

toroidialoscillator.jpg

I haven't seen a high resolution scope shot of the oscillator's wave before so not sure if this is normal or not! Looks good though!

[Sephiroth]

hi Sephiroth
Would it be possible to get some info for you Sephiroth i dont now how to work out frequency with the scope what the calclations i need to do?

whoops, missed that question! sorry.

I'm not absolutly sure yet how to work out the frequency

I believe the "Time" dial relates to the amount of time there is per square on the screen. Once you know the time there is between the start of one pulse and the start of the next pulse you can then work out frequency by how many pulses there are per second. (eg. 100 pulses per second = 100 hertz)

though the fine tuning dial on the time dial has left me a bit confused as to how much time there actually is between pulses It's probably really simple but I need to do some more reading

[Sephiroth]

ok, I have been studying the waveforms from my solid state oscillator and I think I have found the ideal wave. Haven't seen this posted anywhere so it may be useful!

solidstatewave.jpg

If I increase the resistance slightly it will go chaotic. If I decrease the resistance the curve on the bottom representing the ON time levels out and resembles the wave I posted earlier.

I think I understand what is happening but if any of you learned individuals would like to jump in with some coaching feel free!

What I see happening is almost like an electromagnetic equivellant of a pendulum.

when the transistor turns on it charges the coil and then turns off. The voltage then "swings" (like a pendulum) in the opposite direction and we extract a little bit of energy from the swinging. the voltage then swings back in the direction it originally came from and when it reaches the apex we give it a little nudge (turn the transistor on to charge the coil) to maintain the swinging motion (the oscillation).

We want to provide just enough of a nudge to maintain the oscillation so I have tuned the oscillator to turn off when the voltage reaches it's peak, just slightly after the bottom curve levels out as this indicates the coil has reached saturation.

Don't know how you are supposed to tune a solid state oscillator without an oscilloscope! I love it!!!!

Performing COP tests at the moment but it is looking good!

[Sephiroth]

I think I worked out the frequency though the ideal frequency will probably vary from model to model... but just for the record, the scope shot above is showing the oscillator resonating at 3.3333 kilohertz (exactly 30 microseconds between start of pulses)

The transistor's ON time is approx 5 microseconds.

[theremart]

Ahhh...

You are looking at your wave form via AC not DC...

I was getting jealous of how high your spikes were getting! :-)

It is like getting a new set of eyes when you get a scope, what I am myself am trying to do is pair up the scope with my voltage readings on the target battery, whenever i see a sharp rise in the charging battery voltage, I like to run over and look at the scope to see what the wave form looks like. I am trying various voltages to see what makes the target battery seem to rise the best.

The trouble I see with my approach is, what is the rise in voltage came from the wave form just before the rise in charge, and not the one I am looking at...

I like your thoughts about a pendulum, I try to picture a tank of water that can be shaken, creating ripples in the water. Hmmm makes me think if we were to turn on the transistor for only one time, would the wave form be different than our continual stream of waves?.....

I would to hear from others their interpretation of what the scope has to read as well.

[Sephiroth]

You are looking at your wave form via AC not DC...

I was getting jealous of how high your spikes were getting! :-)

I don't understand what you mean

This is the waveform across the coil (ie. positive lead connected to the collector and negative to the positive of the primary battery.)

Hmmm makes me think if we were to turn on the transistor for only one time, would the wave form be different than our continual stream of waves?.....

I believe that if we were to turn on the transistor only once then a sine wave will follow that gradually diminishs. Like if we left a pendulum to swing without any extra input the swings will get lower and lower until it stops.

I would also like to hear other peoples views on the scope shots

Do you have any high resolution shots of your SS? I have seen the ones on the solid state thread though can you stretch the wave out please?

[gmeat]

my 2 cents

Hi guys,



The problem I have with visualizing electricity is this.How do we visualize this charge in terms of length or space.I mean there is no formula that I know of that does this,Another words if I put a charge on a wire at what point along that wire does the electric disipate into no more electric on that wire,Does it happen 100 feet down the wire or does it happen 32 miles down the wire or does it happen at 32 trillion miles down the wire.heres another thought I have.How do I visualize whats happening in that wire, Is it like 100 people standing in a line and the guy at the rear pushes the guy in front of him and so it is like a domino affect until the push reaches the front of the line,Or is it like pushing a long 2x4 that is equal to the length of the 100 person long line where the charge moves instantaneously . This is the part of electicity that confuses me.I mean if I charge up 10 capacitors that are in series on a wire or if I charge up 100 capacitors in series how much more electric does it really take to do this.Is it solely because of resistance that I have to put more electric to accomplish the above example.Let me stop rambling on because maybe I just dont understand enough .SMW seems to explain the scope shots in a very easy to understand way.Dont beat me down to bad for my thoughts on electric lol.


-Gary

[theremart]

I don't understand what you mean

This is the waveform across the coil (ie. positive lead connected to the collector and negative to the positive of the primary battery.)



I believe that if we were to turn on the transistor only once then a sine wave will follow that gradually diminishs. Like if we left a pendulum to swing without any extra input the swings will get lower and lower until it stops.

I would also like to hear other peoples views on the scope shots

Do you have any high resolution shots of your SS? I have seen the ones on the solid state thread though can you stretch the wave out please?

RE: AC / DC

on my scope I don't know about yours there is a toggle to switch between AC and DC viewing of the signal. I believe since looking at your waveform you are saying the center of the wave is 0V. Thus I take it to mean you have the position of the switch on AC?!? Just trying to figure it out..

As for the SS shots. Yes I can probably do that... I have made a video of the shots I was getting, and I think the video camera does more justice to the view than the stills I have put up.

Mart

[Sephiroth]

not sure what that switch is for the wave is identical either way it is set

[theremart]

Hi guys,



The problem I have with visualizing electricity is this.How do we visualize this charge in terms of length or space.I mean there is no formula that I know of that does this,Another words if I put a charge on a wire at what point along that wire does the electric disipate into no more electric on that wire,Does it happen 100 feet down the wire or does it happen 32 miles down the wire or does it happen at 32 trillion miles down the wire.heres another thought I have.How do I visualize whats happening in that wire, Is it like 100 people standing in a line and the guy at the rear pushes the guy in front of him and so it is like a domino affect until the push reaches the front of the line,Or is it like pushing a long 2x4 that is equal to the length of the 100 person long line where the charge moves instantaneously . This is the part of electicity that confuses me.I mean if I charge up 10 capacitors that are in series on a wire or if I charge up 100 capacitors in series how much more electric does it really take to do this.Is it solely because of resistance that I have to put more electric to accomplish the above example.Let me stop rambling on because maybe I just dont understand enough .SMW seems to explain the scope shots in a very easy to understand way.Dont beat me down to bad for my thoughts on electric lol.


-Gary

I think you have the same fuzzy feeling I do about electricity. I remember when in Physics class I asked about what causes gravity? The first answer I got was gravity was relative to mass. I then asked again, what causes that, the answer was I don't know. I guess just like that we can observe the effects, but it is very hard to get to root of the very hard questions...

The idea I had of electricity is like your domino idea only with like billiard balls each hitting one another.

I guess this theory part is where Tom Beardon has stayed and struggled with. Many brilliant minds have struggled with this, and have come up with some great theories, but it seems each one is lacking to explain the whole equation, and how each of the billiard balls move.

The question that John Bedini asks on the video 2 of Energy from the Vacuum, has had me digging, who said this is an amper.... I have read biographies on Faraday, and I am very very impressed with the first developments of the first motors. It was much like today were many people came together and shared their ideas of how electricity worked, and keep getting more and more advanced theories.

I guess High School chemistry is where I got my notions of how electrons move in orbit. It seems the more you dig, the more the pioneer you are as very few people look beyond the pages of what has already been written.

[gmeat]

I think you have the same fuzzy feeling I do about electricity. I remember when in Physics class I asked about what causes gravity? The first answer I got was gravity was relative to mass. I then asked again, what causes that, the answer was I don't know. I guess just like that we can observe the effects, but it is very hard to get to root of the very hard questions...

The idea I had of electricity is like your domino idea only with like billiard balls each hitting one another.

I guess this theory part is where Tom Beardon has stayed and struggled with. Many brilliant minds have struggled with this, and have come up with some great theories, but it seems each one is lacking to explain the whole equation, and how each of the billiard balls move.

The question that John Bedini asks on the video 2 of Energy from the Vacuum, has had me digging, who said this is an amper.... I have read biographies on Faraday, and I am very very impressed with the first developments of the first motors. It was much like today were many people came together and shared their ideas of how electricity worked, and keep getting more and more advanced theories.

I guess High School chemistry is where I got my notions of how electrons move in orbit. It seems the more you dig, the more the pioneer you are as very few people look beyond the pages of what has already been written.

Hi Mart,


Thx for the reply.I like to ask questions to try to develop an understanding of how things work,And sometimes there is no clear answer to the question.I also view electricity like you in as far as billiard balls pushing into each other but I have a feeling that all those balls are touching each other so that when you move 1 you move them all.Of course I could be wrong but,It's nice to make this stuff up as I go lol.



-Gary

[Sephiroth]

I've noticed something interesting while studying a few different configurations on my energizer...

These are some approximate sketches of my waveforms from my energizer which currently have two seperate coils. Figure 1 shows the wave when the recovery coils are in series and Figure 2 shows the wave when the recovery coils are in parellel.

seriesparellelwaves.jpg

Now, obviously this doesn't mean that only 6 volts is being output by the first configuration and 12 by the second. The output on both these cofigurations will be almost identical ie. They will be just above the voltage of the charging battery. Let's say 12 volts.

But here is where it gets interesting! Both of these configurations are outputting at the same level, however the first configuration is outputing 12 volts for twice the time! Isn't that interesting...

But it gets just a little bit better... doesn't the prolonged output of the first configuration indicate that the magnetic field from the coil being energized is also prolonged and thus gives us some extra work by continuing to repel the rotor magnet for a longer time after the supply voltage has been cut off?

Maybe I am just misinterpreting the scope shots so if anyone would like correct me please do!!!

[RotogenRay]

something similar

You know, in doing experiments with so called "open circuits. Take a high voltage transformer- don't do this at home...

I might say "I took" a high voltage transformer 2-4kv (a microwave transformer) hook one end of the output side to an antenna (I used 100 feet of coax cable strung up in trees around my house, but any large terminal capacitance should work) and the other end hook in series with a tiny spark gap to ground.

When turned on the gap fires- why? Erm, I've heard capacitance between the output aerial and ground- but come on. Its in the trees, it gets nowhere near ground, you shouldn't be able to dielectrically store anything short of millions of volts in the space between the wire and ground, the electric field simply doesn't extend that far.

So I'm left to theorize, but as well I've found that running the circuit in this way produces anomalous voltages in anomalous places. A sheet of aluminum foil hung on my wall not touching anything but wall will light a neon bulb to some degree- and you can get neons at the hardware store- they have the candle shaped cathodes and produce a simulated candlelight. But I looked at the ambient sine wave on my scope- it has those same huge peaks. About 2 or 3times the peak line voltage.

I can't explain this, except to connect it to the bedini motor phenoms.