Bedini Scope Shots

[tjnlsn255]

To add to the visualization ..... is electricity the jumping of electrons in one direction or is it the holes created when the electron jumps... or does it really jump at all?

In a wave of water in the ocean is the wave always the same water traveling along or is the wave moving new water molecules up and down in a ripple effect.... very interesting stuff.....

Hi Mart,


Thx for the reply.I like to ask questions to try to develop an understanding of how things work,And sometimes there is no clear answer to the question.I also view electricity like you in as far as billiard balls pushing into each other but I have a feeling that all those balls are touching each other so that when you move 1 you move them all.Of course I could be wrong but,It's nice to make this stuff up as I go lol.



-Gary

[Sephiroth]

ok... it looks like it takes more than sketches to get a reaction out of you guys so here are the scope shots of the recovery coils in parellel, 2 in series, and 3 in series....

recoverycompared.jpg

The first shot shows 2 seperate coils with thier primary windings wired in series and then the recovery windings are wired in parellel (step down transformer). Notice the flyback's height is twice the input but lasts for less than a quarter of the time.

The next shot shows 2 seperate coils with their primaries wired in parellel and the recovery wired in series. Notice that the flyback's height is half the input but lasts for approximatly the same time.

The last shots shows 3 seperate coils with their primaries wired in parellel and the recovery wired in series. Notice that the flyback's height is a third of the input but now its time EXCEEDS the input.

All of these configurations will have the same output voltage from the recovery winding which will be just over the charging voltage (not including the initial spike).

Sooooooo..... it appears the more recovery windings we hook up in series (the higher the step up ratio of the transformer) the greater the output.

Another interesting thing I noted is that my theory that the magnetic field exists for a longer period of time appears to be correct and does appear to increase the power in the rotor. When I had it configured as it was in the second scope shot my max RPM was 3360 with approx 360ma input.

Once I added the third coil my max RPM has gone up to 3600 and my amp draw is now only 320ma.

When properly tuned the flyback always appears to terminate when the stator is directly between the magnets. So if we force the flyback to exists for a longer period of time then I am guessing the magnetic field also exists for a longer time. and if the flyback has to terminate at that specific point then we can use a shorter "on" time to get the same amount of power out of the rotor.

At least that is what I think


Come on guys! Has no one else noticed this!?

[mrbreau]

What I see...

Being a relative new-b at all this the only thing I see is what is missing on MY scope shots. For example, I can never see the radiant spike. Your second shot shows an enormous radiant spike, IMO, and I think THAT is what we are after, the radiant spike to charge batteries.

It is too bad I'm caught up in other occupations at the moment and have only a fan motor running to charge a battery. I'm not liking the ratio of draw vs charge, 230mA : 12.3mA.

I like the shots and the explainations. You guys with some experience help enlighten me as to what I am seeing when I scope a circuit.

Thanks for the info. You are doing a great job, again IMO.

Warren
..

[EgmQC]

Being a relative new-b at all this the only thing I see is what is missing on MY scope shots. For example, I can never see the radiant spike. Your second shot shows an enormous radiant spike, IMO, and I think THAT is what we are after, the radiant spike to charge batteries.

It is too bad I'm caught up in other occupations at the moment and have only a fan motor running to charge a battery. I'm not liking the ratio of draw vs charge, 230mA : 12.3mA.

I like the shots and the explainations. You guys with some experience help enlighten me as to what I am seeing when I scope a circuit.

Thanks for the info. You are doing a great job, again IMO.

Warren
..

Hi Warren,

To see the spike on you scope you have to unplug the charging battery.

Best Regards,
Eric

[Sephiroth]

Hi Warren,

To see the spike on you scope you have to unplug the charging battery.

Best Regards,
Eric

Mine generates the spikes while the charging batteries are connected but they are alot smaller than with no load and are only visible on the primary side (on the recovery coil they are much much smaller but still present)

On a standard SSG configuration (no recovery coil) I don't think it is possible to see the spikes.

[gmeat]

Mine generates the spikes while the charging batteries are connected but they are alot smaller than with no load and are only visible on the primary side (on the recovery coil they are much much smaller but still present)

On a standard SSG configuration (no recovery coil) I don't think it is possible to see the spikes.

Hi Sephiroth,


Are the scope shots your showing using the choke Relay on the base side of the circuit? Also if you could use a bifilar choke in place of the relay choke I would like to see some scope shots of that.Thx for all the input .


-Gary

[Sephiroth]

not using the choke at the moment... I have got a scope shot of the choke in the circuit but I'll have to find it... might just make a new one

Watch this space

[mrbreau]

Hi Warren,

To see the spike on you scope you have to unplug the charging battery.

Best Regards,
Eric

My point is that in pictures two and three the spike is clearly visible passing the discharge(?) phase before connecting to it. I don't see that on my setup for some reason. And I've complained here about the *eagle's beak* that particular portion of my waveform has. That *eagle's beak* formation indicates to me that the spike doesn't pass the discharge but connects directly. I've spent a couple of months trying to get the wave to show that spike but I seem to be doing something wrong, or perhaps not right.

Whoa! This is about Seph's waveforms and not mine!! I probably shouldn't have said anything since I don't know very much but what I see or think I see. PAH!

Thanks Eric for you interest and reply BTW.

Warren
..

[Sephiroth]

My point is that in pictures two and three the spike is clearly visible passing the discharge(?) phase before connecting to it. I don't see that on my setup for some reason. And I've complained here about the *eagle's beak* that particular portion of my waveform has. That *eagle's beak* formation indicates to me that the spike doesn't pass the discharge but connects directly. I've spent a couple of months trying to get the wave to show that spike but I seem to be doing something wrong, or perhaps not right.

Whoa! This is about Seph's waveforms and not mine!! I probably shouldn't have said anything since I don't know very much but what I see or think I see. PAH!

Thanks Eric for you interest and reply BTW.

Warren
..

This thread is for everyone's scope shots have you any pics of the eagle's beak?

[mrbreau]

Eagle's Beak

This is the best shot I could find of the Eagle's beak. It is a real closeup of the discharge portion of the h-wave and the *spike* is barely discernible but can be seen terminating, and not passing the beginning of the discharge.

Lee suggested that the problem "might" be in the coil and how it is wound. To date, I haven't gotten back to that particular setup as it conflicts with my personal philosophy, which is, "Work on this. Think about that." It always amazed me how an answer would come to me about some problem when I wasn't actively seeking an answer. FWIW

Warren
..

[Sephiroth]

sorry warren, but I can't make out what I am looking at... it looks like just a portion of the wave. If it is what I think it is, then th start of the wave is where the flyback begins, then the coil becomes fully discharged an the voltage across the coil drops to "normal" levels where it is just effected by the induction from the magnets on the rotor.

But if that is what I am seeing, it looks fairly normal Are you using a recovery coil or a diode off the primary coil?

[theremart]

Looking at the scope.. from the air and the ground.

Last night I thought I would hook up my scope to the 80' of coax cable I had up on the trees, and to real ground ( a 4ft of copper wire buired in the ground. I am getting wierd shots.

The scope is reporting a wave in about 60V in size each segment is at 20V, and one Milla second... when I measuer the voltage with a multi meter I get .4 V

( see attached )

[mrbreau]

Eagle's Beak 2

Okie-dokie. Here is another shot from a bit further back. This may be just what you need to confirm your suspicions. It just has me in a tree trying to get this thing to LOOK right. I get a fairly decent charge from the wheel but the primary battery drags right down. Then, at times, BOTH batteries will charge.

BTW; I used Seph's video and drawings to build this unit.

Warren
..

[Sephiroth]

Hi Warren,

yep that's what I thought I was looking at

Are you using a standard SSG coil, It looks like the kind of wave I would see on a bifilar coil with a diode coming from the negative side of the primary coil going to the charging battery

Though it looks like the primary voltage is alot higher then the charging battery's voltage and judging by the induced voltage from the rotor am I right in guessing you are either using large ceramic magnets or maybe even neos?

other than that it looks like a fairly normal wave. Unless you are using a recovery coil I wouldn't expect to see a spike.

I think the spike on my shots are partly due to the capacitance of the primary coil and the inductance of the recovery coil. But, again, that is just a guess. Would be nice if someone with a bit more experience with scope shots could comment

[Sephiroth]

Last night I thought I would hook up my scope to the 80' of coax cable I had up on the trees, and to real ground ( a 4ft of copper wire buired in the ground. I am getting wierd shots.

The scope is reporting a wave in about 60V in size each segment is at 20V, and one Milla second... when I measuer the voltage with a multi meter I get .4 V

( see attached )

Maybe a silly question, but is the wave still present with only 1 lead connected to either ground or your antenna?