Bedini SG

[Jetijs]

Hi Shamus,
I look forward to see pictures of your setup
In the mean time I will post mine.

This is a two trifilar coil setup where one strand of one coil is used to trigger the transistors and other five strands are to power the whole thing. Each strand has its own transistor. Those things on my coils are only some lead weights to prevent vibration of the coil. Here's the other side of my circuit:

You can see that the upper middle transistor area has a hole burned in the plate. The hole is between the Neon bulb terminals. I had some problems like this before. If you solder the two neon bulb leads close together, the high voltage BEMF sipke can arc across these leads and provide a short to the battery. Therefore make sure that your neon leads are as far appart as possible. If you look close, you can see, that I scraped away those little copper rings between other neon leads. Actually I burned that transistor when I was powering my SSG with a variac and attached ground wire and diode to the + terminal on the charging battery. You can read about this on the Radiant energy results topic
However, keep up your good work and do not give up. I also had many moments when I thought that maybe this is not meant for me to understand

[Ted Ewert]

Thanks Kevin, for that note of encouragement. I've taken pictures of the 4-pole monopole and will post them soon. As for my feelings of frustration, part of it has to do with Peter's revelation vis-a-vis the Bedini pedulum. All that work for naught. The other part of it is this: I think I have found at least part of an answer as to why I'm running up against brick walls here. Personally, I think he's only partially right; I think he's missing a lot of the picture with respect to the mass scale conditioning that most people are subject to here in the U.S. and in most European countries. People who are brought up to be sheep aren't going to make wise choices, you know? I don't know if it's just a blind spot or willful, but it only adds to my frustration to see attitudes like that--and probably explains why good information is so hard to come by.

OK, enough sermonizing. I'm sure nobody really cares to hear such things anyway, so I'll shuddap about it already.

Right now I've got the 4-pole monopole (I think I'll call it a 4PM ) with 2.2K base resistors just to see how long it will take to get the battery up to, say, 15V or so. Just to see what will happen. I'm pretty sure I know what will happen with 330 base resistors (faster charging, higher current draw ). I'm not sure how John Bedini got 24V showing up on the charging battery side with this machine (I'm still getting only around 12V with spot measurements)--I'm sure that even if I had eight coils like he has on his that I'd still be seeing only 12V on mine. Ah well, c'est la vie. Ours is only to know in part, I suppose.

I will say that this machine does develop some torque though--probably due to the fact that it fires twice as much as a machine with all its coils aligned with the rotor magnets. You could probably develop even more torque with the coils suitably arranged.

At any rate, the next machine will definitely be an n-filer coil with multiple recovery circuits. BTW Kevin, I'll be interested in seeing the results of your tests with your "non-superpole-superpole" magnet arrangement. Also, be sure to keep us posted on your progress with the big machine.

Hi Shamus,
I feel your pain man! After having high expectations of my first few Bedini machines I was "underwhelmed" with their performance (to put it mildly).
However, I have come to realize that this was not a result of the machine, but rather due to my lack of understanding.
Batteries need a combination of current, pulse rate, pulse amplitude and impedance matching to optimally charge. Radiant energy is developed in a number of places, but is really only part of the total picture.
I don't pretend to be any kind of an expert with these types of machines, but I have pulled my hair out long enough to see how much more I have to learn. The process is frustrating and difficult at times but the payback is in knowledge. Experimenting with different charge rates and voltages will be very revealing in figuring out how your machine runs best.
Multi coil machines will definitely draw more current than the single coil ones. I wouldn't worry about that so much right now. Figure out where it charges best by doing some full charge cycles on some batteries. Put a bunch of batteries in parallel and see how that works.
Each machine is different and will take a while to get to know. Your machine has an optimal setup which will give you much better results than you are seeing now. It just takes some patience and perseverance to find it.

Cheers,

Ted

[Peter Lindemann]

How can I help?

Thanks Kevin, for that note of encouragement. I've taken pictures of the 4-pole monopole and will post them soon. As for my feelings of frustration, part of it has to do with Peter's revelation vis-a-vis the Bedini pedulum. All that work for naught. The other part of it is this: I think I have found at least part of an answer as to why I'm running up against brick walls here. Personally, I think he's only partially right; I think he's missing a lot of the picture with respect to the mass scale conditioning that most people are subject to here in the U.S. and in most European countries. People who are brought up to be sheep aren't going to make wise choices, you know? I don't know if it's just a blind spot or willful, but it only adds to my frustration to see attitudes like that--and probably explains why good information is so hard to come by.

OK, enough sermonizing. I'm sure nobody really cares to hear such things anyway, so I'll shuddap about it already.

Right now I've got the 4-pole monopole (I think I'll call it a 4PM ) with 2.2K base resistors just to see how long it will take to get the battery up to, say, 15V or so. Just to see what will happen. I'm pretty sure I know what will happen with 330 base resistors (faster charging, higher current draw ). I'm not sure how John Bedini got 24V showing up on the charging battery side with this machine (I'm still getting only around 12V with spot measurements)--I'm sure that even if I had eight coils like he has on his that I'd still be seeing only 12V on mine. Ah well, c'est la vie. Ours is only to know in part, I suppose.

I will say that this machine does develop some torque though--probably due to the fact that it fires twice as much as a machine with all its coils aligned with the rotor magnets. You could probably develop even more torque with the coils suitably arranged.

At any rate, the next machine will definitely be an n-filer coil with multiple recovery circuits. BTW Kevin, I'll be interested in seeing the results of your tests with your "non-superpole-superpole" magnet arrangement. Also, be sure to keep us posted on your progress with the big machine.

Shamus,

No one thinks you are whining. There is a lot of confusion out there. I worked for Energenx when all of the larger rotating machines were built. All of the big machines, the 12 coil machine with the barrel rotor, the 10 coil machine with the large black rotor, the 6 coil machine with the silver rotor, were 24 volt systems! You will never duplicate what these machines do with a 12 volt system.

These machines can be seen on this page.

20 Bedini

Look at the batteries. The picture of the large round batteries on the floor. They are 1600 amp-hour 2 volt cells, 12 of them wired in series. Look at the copper buss-bars connecting the batteries in series. The systems were connected to the control box with 00 (two aught) wire. This is a super LOW IMPEDANCE system. Total resistance of the whole battery bank was .002 Ohms! Due to these conditions, the Radiant Energy behaves differently.

Every one of these machines was slightly different. Every machine was designed to TEST something specific. The variations being tested were the CONFIDENTIAL property of Energenx and its stockholders. A lot of information has been published, but a lot has not. That's business. Like I said, millions of dollars of investor's money has been spent developing these systems:

Energenx, Inc.

I'm interested to know why you think I am "only partially right". What do you mean by this? I am painfully aware of the how ill-prepared most people are to understand what John says or what Tom Bearden says, or what I say. There is not much we can do about that. The fact is, Energenx is a Public Stock company. Information was only published about systems that have no commercial value. The method of operation of the products on the products page above is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than anything you know about. It doesn't mean what has been published is worthless. It means John LEARNED something from these stepping stones and the designs progressed.

Please don't be upset about all of this. It's business. What you have learned about this is SOLELY due to the fact that John is a generous humanitarian who honestly cares about the world. He was under no obligation to tell anyone anything about what was learned at the expense of his investors!

Keep experimenting with your models. John gave you the place to start. But now you have to learn how to learn. Let the machine tell you it's secrets. They're right in front of you.

Best wishes,

Peter

[Shamus]

Sigh, sigh, BIG SIGH

Thanks Kevin, for that note of encouragement. I've taken pictures of the 4-pole monopole and will post them soon. As for my feelings of frustration, part of it has to do with Peter's revelation vis-a-vis the Bedini pedulum. All that work for naught. The other part of it is this: I think I have found at least part of an answer as to why I'm running up against brick walls here. Personally, I think he's only partially right; I think he's missing a lot of the picture with respect to the mass scale conditioning that most people are subject to here in the U.S. and in most European countries. People who are brought up to be sheep aren't going to make wise choices, you know? I don't know if it's just a blind spot or willful, but it only adds to my frustration to see attitudes like that--and probably explains why good information is so hard to come by.

OK, enough sermonizing. I'm sure nobody really cares to hear such things anyway, so I'll shuddap about it already.

Right now I've got the 4-pole monopole (I think I'll call it a 4PM ) with 2.2K base resistors just to see how long it will take to get the battery up to, say, 15V or so. Just to see what will happen. I'm pretty sure I know what will happen with 330 base resistors (faster charging, higher current draw ). I'm not sure how John Bedini got 24V showing up on the charging battery side with this machine (I'm still getting only around 12V with spot measurements)--I'm sure that even if I had eight coils like he has on his that I'd still be seeing only 12V on mine. Ah well, c'est la vie. Ours is only to know in part, I suppose.

I will say that this machine does develop some torque though--probably due to the fact that it fires twice as much as a machine with all its coils aligned with the rotor magnets. You could probably develop even more torque with the coils suitably arranged.

At any rate, the next machine will definitely be an n-filer coil with multiple recovery circuits. BTW Kevin, I'll be interested in seeing the results of your tests with your "non-superpole-superpole" magnet arrangement. Also, be sure to keep us posted on your progress with the big machine.

[Kevin]

Shamus,

Don't be discouraged!

I am sure you will have an "aha" moment.


On another note....I am almost done building my barn. A good portion of it will be dedicated to a work area for starting to build my next version of a Bedini battery charger.

[Shamus]

Finished?

Well I finally found my roundtoit and finished up my four pole monopole replication (as seen on this page, about 1/5 of the way down ). I'm still trying to figure out how to tune this beastie, especially in light of the recent info I got from Peter Lindemann in the pendulum thread (wow, was that an eye opener!). I've also figured that I need to get a new PSU since the one I have now can only supply 300 mA (!), but that's another story.

At any rate, I can get the thing into resonance with a 2.2K base resistance on all four circuits with a very low current draw (around 1/4A!) but the charging goes to hell (and with Peter's revelation I guess that makes sense). Taking the base resistance down to 330 ohms results in fairly good charging, but the current draw goes up to 1.09A. Also of note is that with the 2.2K base resistance, it's having some slight self-oscillations but the stronger magnets seem to be able to overcome them as it spins up to around 900 RPM.

I know now that I'll get better results with a n-filar coil (where n>2) and separate branch circuits, but I just had to build this thing after seeing it on the EFTV2 film. That and the phrase, 'charge the hell out of this battery.' Of course, I'm not getting anywhere near the same results as he did, but that could be due any number of reasons such as lousy bearings, sloppy rotor, different wire, different transistors, the fact that his is really an 8 pole monopole, etc.

Right now I'm feeling a bit discouraged. I feel like I'm going around in circles, not really getting anywhere and unable to find any good answers to the questions that I have. Meditating on the original SG has brought no insight. I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall.

[elias]

My hwave on the scope

Well,

I am quite understanding now what Bedini meant with the spikes.
I am starting to understand that battery conditioning is a MAJOR factor.
Remember that when they stole Jim Watson's Batteries the machine he was not able to run it anymore. The batteries must be conditioned to absorb this Radiant Energy faster. I have personally started charging my 6 volt battery last night. it seems that it was charging very slowly at first but it is charging faster now.

I have attached my H wave.

God Bless,

[elias]

has anyone else used hall effect sensors for timing?

Well,

I was about to build the Adams motor that I found out there is a great community building and testing SSGs. Actually the Adams motor has not many differences with the SSG except for the timing and the capture of the back EMF.

So I decided to make a few modifications to my motor to make it an SSG, The modifications mainly included the the capture of Back EMF for charging a Battery.

I wanted to see if anyone else has experience using hall effect sensors for their advanced SSGs or so.

My Motor is running pretty fast (1600RPM) at 9.5V and 187mA. and it is charging the Battery with more than 200V spikes, I have also used #19 wire.with a wheel of about 11cm diameter.

Elias

[Shamus]

Interesting waveform

I stumbled upon an interesting characteristic of the SSG: it emits audio even when not in self-oscillation mode! And since the waveforms (attached below) are fairly uniform, this means I can use it to measure RPM without a tachometer.

BTW, I acquired a real, though quite dead, lead-acid battery that had been sitting in a rusted out old riding lawnmower for who knows how long. After I cleaned it up, I checked the electrolyte levels (still fairly high) and the voltage (half a volt). I built a new rotor and got some MJL21194Gs and finally got around to adding the second coil. After about eight rounds or so of charging and discharging, that sucker has come back to life! Yeah, I know, same old boring story. Still, it's one thing to read about this stuff and quite another to see it for yourself. So far the load times have been going up; it'll be interesting to see how much it comes back from the dead.

The other two coils are just waiting to be put in. Now it's just a matter of finding a block of time to install them and their associated circuits. I'll post pictures soon...

For those who want to know: The battery is a 12V/230CCA lead-acid type. I'm loading it with a 25W light bulb through a 350W inverter. Load times are currently over an hour. Simply amazing for a battery that couldn't hold a charge a couple of weeks ago.

[adam ant]

Unmodify

you posted this

I figure the wall battery charger is just designed to flood the battery or load, with as much juice as it wants, so it always varies. Or maybe there is something to the nature of the wall ac, it's always flipping back and forth...well I'm pretty new, my guess is it's just the way the plug-in charger works.

that is my point, it provides as much juice as needed... if you were to return this back to the electric company, you would be making money off of them AND powering your house at the same time. instead of routing your output to charge a battery, run it back into a seperate wall outlet.

[unmodify]

Gracias para la ayuda y para los bienvenido, amigo

with my current energizer I've got my trigger and power coil wound at the same time I think about 270ish winds are in the trigger coil. Yes I plan adding lots more winds, it seemed to me that would be where the most leverage would be. I'm curious though, are large spikes desirable, I read something bearden wrote about being careful about them, to not detonate the battery?

Either way you've given me a bit more impetus to make much bigger coils as my next step in testing. I'll be getting right on that.

Thank you

[amigo]

My current test model is pretty frankenstein; a shopping car wheel, a nail with wire around it, tons of radio shack do-dads. I intend to build another more efficient one. I read some of you added more energizers and more coils on each energizer, is there an optimal amount of turns? is there an excessive amount? When you put multiple coils on the same spool do you hook them in parallel or series? Does the number of turns on the trigger coil affect it's performance? I plan to test and find these answers myself, but if someone has traveled those roads already and can pass along their insight and discoveries it would be totally appreciated.

Thank you
Jesse

Welcome aboard

I can say with confidence that number of turns on the trigger coil definitely makes a difference. You should have as many as you can squeeze on your spool, but that depends if you have used a pre-made spool or made your own.
I have experimented with some alternative designs where trigger coil was wound next to a drive coil and trigger not having enough wounds made it so that the motor would barely work. It would actually work when the coil is facing the opposite direction (drive coil towards the rotor instead of the trigger coil).

With n-filar power coils, I have tried parallel and serial. Parallel would give me far smaller voltage spikes than serial yet everyone seems to say that parallel is the way to go (at least it is when you are making a multi transistor power setup where each coil wind gets a transistor).

I have tried winding n-filar and also power over the trigger+drive; n-filar is when you wind three or more (pre-twisted) strands simultaneously (for example trigger, drive and one power).

Alternative design that I'm playing with now has a trigger+drive wound first (26 + 24 AWG), then on top of that three-filar (20 AWG) power as many winds as possible to fit. When connected in series the power winds give me over 400V spikes, while in parallel I get about 150V+.

These are just some of my observations, best way to learn is to try yourself. JB is right when he says that people in general have stopped experimenting. They simple do what they are told (put this here and that there and it's done) by our conventional science that "knows it all".

[unmodify]

A response to 'using AC' and then some

Hello, I'm very new with all of this, <month I didn't have a clue how to use a transistor. I cobbled together a full sg motor, and have and continue to play with and study any and all that I can with it.

Regarding using AC wall current: I used a plug-in battery charger; takes wall ac and outputs dc; and it felt like the motor wouldn't stabilize. To elaborate, In playing with it I found with my batteries they would hit spots where they would ...how do I describe this... well, I use a variable 5k ohm potentiometer and if I have it set to 0, the current draw hops all over, and it runs but really badly, like it's being flooded with current. When I trim it some it will rise in speed and the current draw will stabilize, sometimes hopping down quite a few milliamps (on my motor from 300ish to 180ish), if the battery has a fair amount of juice I can trim it more and it will kinda like get a second wind, it will speed up even more and the current draw that sustains this is much less. So what I mean about the power from the wall socket charger not stabilizing is that it wouldn't behave like the batteries would, it would act like I had the pot set to 0 ohms no matter what I did. So one conclusion I made is that the supplied current needs to be steady, batteries I imagine can only supply so much and don't change how fast they release the energy inside themselves.

I figure the wall battery charger is just designed to flood the battery or load, with as much juice as it wants, so it always varies. Or maybe there is something to the nature of the wall ac, it's always flipping back and forth...well I'm pretty new, my guess is it's just the way the plug-in charger works.

I believe that's undesirable ya? We want the circuit to synchronize it's operation so the electron movement is as close to nil as possible so the radiant energy fractionation can take place consistently.

...or are these motors just simply designed to be efficient. The reduction of counter emf, the tiny load and adding a recovery circuit is it designed to be more productive than the draw it takes? All of the above?

My current test model is pretty frankenstein; a shopping car wheel, a nail with wire around it, tons of radio shack do-dads. I intend to build another more efficient one. I read some of you added more energizers and more coils on each energizer, is there an optimal amount of turns? is there an excessive amount? When you put multiple coils on the same spool do you hook them in parallel or series? Does the number of turns on the trigger coil affect it's performance? I plan to test and find these answers myself, but if someone has traveled those roads already and can pass along their insight and discoveries it would be totally appreciated.

Thank you
Jesse

[gehko]

@amigo: When designing a circuit you add in a bunch of safeties and "what if" situations but the software is only as smart as the EE and therefore whatever physical rules apply to the component are displayed in the software. I.E. if i built a circuit with 19.5 kV spikes, i would quickly *fix* the circuit.

[adam ant]

any or all of the above. i just ordered enough supplies to build about 10 Bedini SG's so i will start conducting my own tests.