Bedini SG

[ren]

Good work sep! Glad to see you are not just being spoon fed. My understanding is that it isnt as simple as matching a pot to the resistance of the relay.

"As the frequency of the pulsing rises the DC resistance remains constant, but the inductive reactance increases. This means the Total Ohms (impedance) of the coil when the motor is running will be a vector addition of the constant DC ohms (resistance) and the inductive reactance (impedance). The best thing about inductive reactance is that while it impedes current in direct relationship with frequency, it does not cause power loss due to heating. That is, there is no associated I^2*R losses with impedance, like there is with resistance."

Im not sure if Im correct but I think the relays coil gauge would be altering your circuit in peculiar ways. Keep testing!

I think it might be interesting to try some really small capacitors on the trigger leg too.

[Aaron]

choke on trigger

This is great Sephiroth!

Chokes play a big part in Stan Meyer's WFC circuits. It is supposed to be one of the big keys that that nobody has mastered. It is part of the "voltage intensifier circuit" (VIC). As you pulse through the chokes, you're able to get higher and higher voltage out the end of the chokes, which the magnetic field of the chokes limit the current. Meyer used bifilar chokes... both wires wound around same coil. One choke on the front side of the cell and one on the back side of the cell with the cell between them in series...connected Tesla pancake coil style.

With the chokes, you're right that it isn't about the resistance. Even in Meyer's chokes, resistance is over 10k ohms, pretty high and Meyer says it isn't resistance that limits the current, it is the magnetic field in the chokes.

Anyway, are you able to post scope shots with and without the choke on the trigger?

How many turns do you estimate are on the choke? Gauge? Core material? Diameter? etc...? Picture of the coil?

Keep going!

[Sephiroth]

I wish I did have a scope aaron... I think I have a pretty good idea of what it would show but it would be good to confirm it...

this is the relay I am using:

Maplin > 6 and 12V 6A Miniature Relays

it is the 6 volt one. it says it is a "Schrack" RP420006

I had a spare so I took it apart to get some measurements. The coil is almost precisly 10mm diameter and 16mm tall and the core (appears to be steel) is 4mm diameter... i couldn't say how many turns there are or what guage the wire is but I would compare it to horse hair.

so do you think a choke might be benificial somewhere on the power side as well?

[ren]

Who can say? I think if I was going to try it I would put it between the end of the coil and the collector first. With the diode off the end of it. Its an interesting approach thats for sure. I think you should study Tesla patent 568177. His unusual approach to powering this device has some clever insights into how chokes may be used. Use a cap on the secondary instead of the ozone plates.

You should build a stock sg (single coil) for your tests so you can finely tune the parameters and study its effects.

[stonewater]

Aaron,

thanks for your reply, I was fairly sure you were the arron that posted the sony rel motor. what a great demo. will have themagnets glued together this week. this will give me a chance to test it. btw have you run this magnet config by JB?

[Aaron]

magnet configuration

Hi Stonewater,

I haven't talked to John about this magnet configuration. I haven't been out to his shop since right before Christmas time because I was busy with a house project and he usually closes this business through that time of the year to beginning of Jan. Half the time I'm out there, we don't even talk about the energy stuff...mostly about life and other stuff.

[stonewater]

the other modification

from one other modification that I will show soon.

Actually, I'll show 2 variations of the other modification and I believe both can be used. I have used each one separately.[/QUOTE]

so we saw the magnet configuration, what is the other one alluded to here?

[Aaron]

the other modification

Hi Stonewater,

If you're referring to the other one I mention, it is this one:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ead.php?t=1663

[linesrg]

Sephiroth,
The relay will cause the current drop you note but you will also see a reduction in RPM if you measure it.
Regards
Richard

[Sephiroth]

Sephiroth,
The relay will cause the current drop you note but you will also see a reduction in RPM if you measure it.
Regards
Richard

Hi Richard,

I can see why you would think that, but it doesn't appear to be the case... remember the choke is only on the trigger side of the circuit.

The most significant observation of the motor's new behaviour is the absence of self resonance.

This leads me to believe that the relay/choke is blocking high frequencies.

Normally, as the rotor accelerates, there are multiple pulses per magnet (lets say 3 for example). Amp draw slowly increases as the rotor accelerates but then during accelleration there is an amp drop and then it starts rising again as the rotor continues to accellerate. I think this amp drop is caused by the number of pulses per magnet decreasing as the rotor speeds up. So then there are two pulses per magnet and the rotor continues to accelerate then there is another amp drop. Now the coils (should be) pulsing once per magnet.

But with the relay/choke in the circuit, it prevents high frequencies so even during the very low rpm at the start there will be only one pulse per magnet. The choke blocks multiple pulses per magnet. This is why I think acceleration is so slow in comparison but maximum RPM doesn't appear to have dropped.

and because of the imperfections of my rotor, my coils were probably pulsing multiple times on certain magnets and once on others with out the choke. But now with the choke it can only pulse once per magnet and this is what i believe to be the reason for the overall drop in amps.

Tach coming this week, but as aaron says, an occiloscope would probably be handier!

[linesrg]

Sephiroth,
It wasn't thinking what I said it was the result of an actual test conducted by a colleague in response to my suggesting it.
I'd be interested in what a scope or other device shows to be actually happening as one result by one individual is not proof positive.
Regards
Richard

[Aaron]

trigger choke differences?

Richard, what were the rpm differences with and without the choke on the trigger?

Sephiroth, have you tried doing this with just a choke on the trigger and then with a diode between choke and trigger coil? Diode pointing from coil towards base on transistor.

COIL ----- DIODE |-> ---Choke --- Resistor ------- Trigger

[Sephiroth]

COIL ----- DIODE |-> ---Choke --- Resistor ------- Trigger

i had a quick go before leaving for work this morning so didn't have time to do any thorough tests but once i connected the diode and spun the wheel it went into resonance... used a 1n4007 since it was handy. Probably should have used a lower value.

turned the pot right down so that there were only the 100 ohm base resistors but couldn't break resonance... possibly because the diode had a too high resistance...

I have a big chunky diode I salvaged from a vcr that has only 150 ohms resistance so will try that when I get home...

What do you expect will happen Aaron? wouldn't it counteract the 1n4001?

Richard - Definatly not proof positive! and I am not saying it improves the circuit... it just has an interesting effect. and of course I'm sure it will vary from machine to machine... like a said, i hooked 2 relays in series and it had negative effects so it is very likely that the value of the choke is important and will probably vary from machine to machine.

But did your friends machine display the same behaviour? Does he have a scope?

and you say amps dropped but so did rpm... were these drops proportional?

[ray0energy]

my new ssg setup

hello people

i just finest my new ssg setup this time it is super balanced







YouTube - Bedini SSG type motor new setup

[Sephiroth]

nicely done ray! interesting using relay coils!

Aaron -

just tried the lower resistance diode but it still won't stop resonating! I've taken it out now to continue experimenting with the performance...

what was supposed to happen???

DON'T FORGET THERE'S A LUNAR ECLIPSE TONIGHT!

if anyone has a bench mark for how high a cap can normally charge on their energiser it would be interesting to see if the results are any different tonight.