Bedini SG

[Druide]

Voltage reading on plastic !!!

I've just took voltage readings of my batteries hooked up on my SG and, remembering having seen John Bedini lighting bulbs by touching plastic parts of a battery on the FEG DVD 2, I sticked one of the multimeter probe to the positive post of the battery I've hooked up yesterday night and the other to different spots on the plastic cover of the same battery and I've got readings up to 10.56 V. !!! This ain't ordinary electricity ! It' amazing.

Druide

[theremart]

Testing

I've just took voltage readings of my batteries hooked up on my SG and, remembering having seen John Bedini lighting bulbs by touching plastic parts of a battery on the FEG DVD 2, I sticked one of the multimeter probe to the positive post of the battery I've hooked up yesterday night and the other to different spots on the plastic cover of the same battery and I've got readings up to 10.56 V. !!! This ain't ordinary electricity ! It' amazing.

Druide

I did the same thing... Except... I started at one terminal and moved toward the other terminal, I found it rose in voltage... and decreased at each cell.

One theory I had is that it is electrolite on the battery that has dried. I have watched the video several times, and in my testing it seems to be right where electrolite may of vaporized. However.... looking around at this forum I have seen others see the charge thru aluminum.

The difference I found was on the video, it turned off when he shut off the enegerizer. The voltage I have tested does not shut off when the energizer is shut off.

I think something is strange there, but still wondering.

[Druide]

The advantages of that is each battery will charge independently. when you mix two batteries together they will try to equalize charge. so if both of them are in parallel on may be draining to get the other one up to full charge. So Bedini has recommended that you do what you have stated.

See

Directory:Bedini SG:Coachingec 21 '04 - PESWiki


For myself I don't use the diodes in my battery swapper because I want the other batteries to equalize the drained battery to the other then charge all of the batteries at the level eventually they do level out. But then again, I am not Bedini, and my batteries don't charge as well as his does

Mart

Thank you Mart

That's the way I saw it. I must say that I have a basic, but very basic, understanding of electronics. 30 years ago, or so, I've build many electronic devices from scratch while I was learning basic electronics from reading Popular Electronics. My most important project was a 80 Watts RMS power amp that sounded just great. At that time, I was making my own printed circuit boards and stuff like that, but I didn't realy understood how the circuits I was assembling worked. I have a more intuitive than cognitive approach of electronics (and other fields) if I can say so.

So, I'm very glad and enthusiastic I've found this forum and to experiment with these technologies. I'm doing some archaeological digging in my shed to find some lost boxes of electronic parts. I've found lots of resistors and capacitors, some diodes and transistors, transformers, power supplies, connectors etc. I have a bunch of MJ802's and I'm wondering if they would be suitable for a 2N3055 replacement.

Keep on sharing open source engineering !

Druide

[tai61]

slave winding

cheers ren, for the advice, not sure what you mean by slave winding.both coils. have there own circuit, and can run independantly.good to hear youre getting good battery charge out of 150 ma, do you know what your voltage that is.am running sg at the present off same battery that im charging,dont know if that makes a difference

[dambit]

I've just took voltage readings of my batteries hooked up on my SG and, remembering having seen John Bedini lighting bulbs by touching plastic parts of a battery on the FEG DVD 2, I sticked one of the multimeter probe to the positive post of the battery I've hooked up yesterday night and the other to different spots on the plastic cover of the same battery and I've got readings up to 10.56 V. !!! This ain't ordinary electricity ! It' amazing.

Druide

Hi,

Sometimes the plastic caps will have a residue on them like dried up electrolyte, and when the probes touch this stuff you will get a voltage reading for that caps cell. I noticed this on my car batteries so I wiped the caps clean and now I get no reading.

I have no doubt that the radient can be detected on the outside of the casing, but it would be good to know exactly the type and rating of the bulb JB used in the video when he was lighting it from the plastic. I can't figure the type out just from watching.

Cheers,

Steve

[Kevin]

peter4you Q & A

Below is a PM I received from peter4you. He stated in the PM that I could answer him in the way most convenient for me...so am doing so here.

My comments will be interspersed in his original PM in teal green.

Before I answer, I must say that there are MANY people on this forum with far greater knowledge than I have, and I am sure peter would appreciate your input on his questions.




Hi there,
I just finished soldering together my first Bedini circuits and modified several PC-fans the way it was described in the forum and by various videos.

However, I have quite a few questions re. the subject of a Bedini circuit with 3 (or more) modified PC fans.

--Hence, may I ask you a few technical questions?

Some people in the forums have mentioned that the circuit functions better, if a different kind of diode is used accross the transistor (such as the fast switching diode 1N914) or that a different transistor is used altogether (such as MJL21194).--Do you have any suggestions on that subject?

I used the diode listed in the parts specification list for building the SG. There may very well be a better diode to use...but I literally did not even know what a diode was when I started building my first SG, so I followed the instructions exactly.

At the momemt I use appr. 6-15V from a laboratory mains adapter for testing the setup with one fan.

--At appr.10V I can see the neon bulb firing (depending on the kind of fan I use.
--Each fan has different characteristics of course, amps, resistance, etc.), so I suppose, the circuit is working ok.

I've tried charging various kinds of batteries (LiIo, NiMh) and they do charge to their specified voltage, although when I discharge them via a light bulb, they lose their charge very quickly (within appr. 10 Min.--However, this is not the case if I have charged the batteries
in the traditional way using a charger).--Any ideas why this is happening with my setup?

It sounds like they are just getting a surface charge with your set-up. I would go back and make sure I had followed ALL John Bedini's instructions exactly, both as far as parts and assembly.

After that you can start "tuning" it to get the best performance.


From what I've understood so far if you want to use more fans, each fan has to have it's own Bedini circuit.

Do you have any idea (for instance from experimenting yourself or by discussing the subject) how exactly to wire the 3 modified fans in parallel?--Do the fans which you put in parallel have to be exactly of the same rating?

I have never used fans, always used a wheel and coil as described in the plans.

OHHH, while on this subject....I have noticed many pictures of different units where there are large spaces between the magnets. I was told that the best performance would be obtained by using the most number of magnets that could fit on the wheel, while leaving the width of two magnets space between each magnet.


Looking forward to your reply.
Peter (from Germany)

PS
It is most convenient for me, if you reply directly to the following email address.--However, respond in any way most convenient to you.-.-Tx
peter4you@ewetel.net

--One more general technical question.--Where in the circuit would you have to put capacitors (like some people have mentioned they did) to improve the setups' functionallity?--Of what voltage
and capacitance rating would they have to be?--Tx

I have never used any capacitors in any of my units.

PPS
I've posted this and related questions a few weks ago on this forum.--Unfortunately, so far I have received no response.

[theremart]

Kevin, reguarding your configuration of magnets.

Hi Kevin,

I attempted to make a wheel with the configuration of magnets I saw your diagram



---------------- ------------------
S...................N N.....................S
S...................N N.....................S
S...................N N.....................S
S...................N N.....................S
S...................N N.....................S
S...................N N.....................S
S...................N N.....................S
S...................N N.....................S
S...................N N.....................S
---------------- ------------------

I have however been unable to get this configuration to work with my ssg. I know the SSG is fine because I put a standard setup of double stacked magnets and it works. Any thoughts as to what I may be doing wrong?

Thanks!

[Sephiroth]

HURRAY!

I just got my oscilloscope and am at this moment looking at the h-wave in all its glory for the first time!

hwave.jpg

Still playing around with the controls but I have a feeling this is going to be a very useful tool!

Mart,
I had trouble getting the superpole to work originally. The problem was that the magnets that were strong enough to trigger the transistor single stacked werent strong enough to trigger the transistor in the superpole configuration because the north is alot weaker. I got mine working by double stacking the magnets on each side of the superpole.

[theremart]

HURRAY!

I just got my oscilloscope and am at this moment looking at the h-wave in all its glory for the first time!

[ATTACH]1013[/ATTACH]

Still playing around with the controls but I have a feeling this is going to be a very useful tool!

Mart,
I had trouble getting the superpole to work originally. The problem was that the magnets that were strong enough to trigger the transistor single stacked werent strong enough to trigger the transistor in the superpole configuration because the north is alot weaker. I got mine working by double stacking the magnets on each side of the superpole.

CONGRATES Seph, now you can show me how to use my scope

Those are some very nice spikes you have there. Mine do not seem to go above 40V on my monopole, which has me puzzled.. Not sure where the problem lies.. The solid state bedini can easily hit much larger spikes but if the magnets is not needed to make the large spike, is the spike the result of high voltage?

Thanks for the insight on the triggering problem...

[Sephiroth]

Thanks Mart... Yeah, I'm really excited! Haven't tried hooking it up to a SS set up yet.

The photo doesn't do the spikes justice they shoot right off the top of the screen to around 180 volts!

But what is really interesting (maybe it isn't) is that this is a scope shot across the primary coil. This is the kind of shot I would expect to see if there is no charging battery connected. When you connect the battery on a standard SSG then the spikes won't visible as they are being absorbed by the charging battery. However this motor has a recovery coil and is dumping the charge and discharge into a capacitor no higher than 2 volts above the charging voltage.

Yet the spikes are still present in the primary coil! Does this show potential that is going to waste? Maybe it would be beneficial to combine the SSG with the Monopole Energiser

[theremart]

RE: Scope shot.

Thanks Mart... Yeah, I'm really excited! Haven't tried hooking it up to a SS set up yet.

The photo doesn't do the spikes justice they shoot right off the top of the screen to around 180 volts!

But what is really interesting (maybe it isn't) is that this is a scope shot across the primary coil. This is the kind of shot I would expect to see if there is no charging battery connected. When you connect the battery on a standard SSG then the spikes won't visible as they are being absorbed by the charging battery. However this motor has a recovery coil and is dumping the charge and discharge into a capacitor no higher than 2 volts above the charging voltage.

Yet the spikes are still present in the primary coil! Does this show potential that is going to waste? Maybe it would be beneficial to combine the SSG with the Monopole Energiser

Are you conecting from Case of the transistor to the negative of primary battery?

[Sephiroth]

from the collector to the primary positive.

[theremart]

Interesting..

from the collector to the primary positive.

I was told to take them from primary neg....

[BinzerBob]

One to one Transformer effect

Thanks Mart... Yeah, I'm really excited! Haven't tried hooking it up to a SS set up yet.

The photo doesn't do the spikes justice they shoot right off the top of the screen to around 180 volts!

But what is really interesting (maybe it isn't) is that this is a scope shot across the primary coil. This is the kind of shot I would expect to see if there is no charging battery connected. When you connect the battery on a standard SSG then the spikes won't visible as they are being absorbed by the charging battery. However this motor has a recovery coil and is dumping the charge and discharge into a capacitor no higher than 2 volts above the charging voltage.

Yet the spikes are still present in the primary coil! Does this show potential that is going to waste? Maybe it would be beneficial to combine the SSG with the Monopole Energiser

I think that seeing the spike on the pickup coil side, a spike around the 180V mark similar to what was observed on the energized side, has something to do with the 1:1 transformer effect that each coil has on one another. Even though I am saying this and writing this, I would think that in your case the Energized coil voltage spike is limited to say 12V as it is dumping its potential into the 12V battery would suppress the pickup coil voltage spike to the same 12V but in your case it doesn't do that?!!!

My SSG motor, with a multimeter on AC setting connected to pickup coil shows say 9.40 Vac and the energized coil shows 10.45 Vac. Keep in mind that the multimeter is not showing Peek to Peek voltage, but in my case (I don't have a scope) it seems that the 1:1 transformer effect is true. That is that the one coil potential affects the other. Peek to peek would be about 9.4 x 1.41 = 13.254 and 10.45 x 1.41 = 14.73 (this is approximate, because the waveform as you know is H not a sinusoid. if you assume a sine wave this is where I am getting the 1.41 factor... it is just ball park type calculation.

I wrote in a different thread that this 1:1 effect has a consequence of how the circuit works ( I can not explain now, because I would really have to review some literature, and also, I might find out I can not explain it fully, but the understanding and reality I believe holds ie 1:1 transformer effect).

I am thinking of getting an oscilloscope, I see that yours is 25 MHz. Is that good enough, or do you find that you need a faster scope?

Oh one last thing... made a Bedini lookalike circuit with a PNP transistor. I basically had to flip the pulse coil wires around so as to fire off the PNP. Anyway, the transistor I used seemed to work well, and I could run the motor without a charge battery with no problems, and also without a Neon bulb... anyway I was able to get 180V spikes (charge up a capacitor with a diode to 180V). I think that the 2N3055 NPN transistor is really hurting everyone's results when looking for the spike. I have read that the MJL21194 is better, and I will likely try it out.

Also, other stuff I tried just to see what would happen I hooked up an NPN Darlington transistor to my circuit and it reacted very much different than the 2N3055. The Darlington was turning on completely and off and drawing all kinds of current (say up to .6 ampre). I did not have enough resistance on my pot (2K was not enough) to give it much modulation. Maybe I needed something like 5K ohms to make the Darlington react like the 2N3055 Anyway..

[Sephiroth]

Hi mart, the scope shot seems to be identical whether it is connected to the positive or the negative.

BinzerBob, I was a bit worreid that the 25mhz might be too slow but it seems adequate for viewing the waveform on a pulse motor, but might have trouble viewing the waveform on a solid state device but I don't think mine resonates above 25mhz so it should be fine. I'm just glad it works! You never know with Ebay