Bedini SG

[patmac]

Hi Pat,

I am not sure I understand your question, but my experience with the heavy neos (160lb pull ) they had a tendency to destroy my transistors if... if... I did not get the wheel up to spining first. I did not have this problem with my smaller neos they just work fine, and they give me large spikes on scope. the motor ( curved ) neos have really worked out well for me.

Mart Cheers!

oops. sorry (i dont understand to you)

ok... in my two motors only works correctly with one neo 90volts rated with 2n3055 brand germany. Maybe impendance coupling is affected with anothers neos because is connected C-E. I was trying with normal bulbs, diodes etc and don't work. NEON BULBS for my at least is highly required.

My suggestion about voltage comparator is for capacitor discharger on the battery charging. I working on it. in january was building a battery charger for USB PC. but is a little usable current is limited in USB port only 500ma.

I leave it then knew about free energy but learned so much about voltage comparators and operational amplifiers i'm buiding the schematics and will upload sooner.

[theremart]

RE: Neos

treremart

How much neos is needed to protect the transistor?
I was thiking use a voltage comparator but in 1000 volts
So maybe is possibly by voltage divider then to voltage comparator LM393 high precision (36 volts max) to make the voltage reference getting low the high voltage from capacitor charge. and activating relay to discharge capacitor.

Vout = R2 / (R1+R2) Vin

Hi Pat,

I am not sure I understand your question, but my experience with the heavy neos (160lb pull ) they had a tendency to destroy my transistors if... if... I did not get the wheel up to spining first. I did not have this problem with my smaller neos they just work fine, and they give me large spikes on scope. the motor ( curved ) neos have really worked out well for me.

Mart Cheers!

[ren]

you are essentially just connecting a thicker wire by paralleling them to the same switch.

[Sephiroth]

Hi guys is it possible to use the basic bedini schematic with one transistor and 2 power coils?
Thanks.

Welcome to the forum!

It will work if you wire them both in parellel but you may get the same performance as multiple transistors and it will put alot of strain on the transistor so it may fry alot easier.

[Guruji]

multicoil one transistor

Hi guys is it possible to use the basic bedini schematic with one transistor and 2 power coils?
Thanks.

[patmac]

Another thing Daftman used was a reed switch, and just look at what you got there! I am thinking that the sharpness of the trigger is key to the spike. This is what a friend of mine said about the hight of the spike..


-----------------
Mart Hale wrote:

> I am trying to figure out what are the factors to make the spike of the 'h'
> wave higher? My solid state one give me over 180V spikes with out
> magnets.. I am beginning to think it is the way that it is triggered?

It is related to the peak current at the moment the switch
turns off, how fast that switch is turned off and how much
total capacitance there is across the coil, including its
own inter winding capacitance, and if the core of the coil
carries eddy current, which gives the current an alternate
place to go. In a similar vein, the base drive circuit is a
load on the output voltage that detours energy away from the
voltage peak.

Getting the higher peak voltage involves dealing with at
least the worst of those factors in your particular case.

Lets say that you pick a given peak current to work with, so
that factor is just a given.

Turning off the transistor faster is something that is quite
practical, if you are starting with the simple resistor base
current limiting circuit something like what is used for the
SG motor. Several of my solid state designs posted to the
old group show additional transistors that dump the base
stored charge much faster than the base resistor does. And
just finding a faster transistor can be a big help.

The coil capacitance can be reduced with specific winding
methods that are better than just random windings.
Improvements by a factor of 2 or 3 are possible, I think.

Laminated iron is better than iron wires, ferrite is better
than iron from an eddy current standpoint.

Many improvements in the base drive circuit are possible
that reduce its load on the output when it is producing its
peak voltage. I have shown several in my experimental
circuits. But the ultimate improvements involve not
deriving the base drive from the coil, at all, so that no
energy is diverted from that stored in the coil.

And, of course, the transistor switch must withstand the
higher voltage without breaking down and acting like that
neon bulb dummy load. Unfortunately, substituting a higher
voltage transistor usually means also substituting a slower
transistor, so this will always be a trade off that has to
be dealt with.

--
Regards,

John Popelish

----------------------------------

What he says seems to agree with what you are saying more current higher spike. I am also thinking faster turn off higher spike. Maybee this is why I am getting high spikes from my neos, they hit with such force that the trigger is more effective, the same with Kevin's "sharp north" both magnets hitting one another creates a faster trigger, but the area of Kevin's trigger would be sharper... a smaller field of North... Hmmm what if I put two neos face to face? what kind of spike would that give me? And combine that with a reed switch....

I have as of yet figured out how to hook the reed switch up to my Bedini for triggering, I quickly tried Daftman's setup of reed switch as trigger, but I must of got something wrong.. or my transistor is not tough enough to edure the HUGE spikes, i know I killed a few transistors with my 160LB neos when starting them at slow speed. When it got up to speed then I applied power everything was ok... hmmm ..... maybee the triggering at low speed.... I remember Kevin got best results at 130 RPM... Maybee high speed is not the real ticket, but rather optimal turn on and turn off times?

treremart

How much neos is needed to protect the transistor?
I was thiking use a voltage comparator but in 1000 volts
So maybe is possibly by voltage divider then to voltage comparator LM393 high precision (36 volts max) to make the voltage reference getting low the high voltage from capacitor charge. and activating relay to discharge capacitor.

Vout = R2 / (R1+R2) Vin

[theremart]

Wow.. again Seph you are gaining new ground

Another thing Daftman used was a reed switch, and just look at what you got there! I am thinking that the sharpness of the trigger is key to the spike. This is what a friend of mine said about the hight of the spike..


-----------------
Mart Hale wrote:

> I am trying to figure out what are the factors to make the spike of the 'h'
> wave higher? My solid state one give me over 180V spikes with out
> magnets.. I am beginning to think it is the way that it is triggered?

It is related to the peak current at the moment the switch
turns off, how fast that switch is turned off and how much
total capacitance there is across the coil, including its
own inter winding capacitance, and if the core of the coil
carries eddy current, which gives the current an alternate
place to go. In a similar vein, the base drive circuit is a
load on the output voltage that detours energy away from the
voltage peak.

Getting the higher peak voltage involves dealing with at
least the worst of those factors in your particular case.

Lets say that you pick a given peak current to work with, so
that factor is just a given.

Turning off the transistor faster is something that is quite
practical, if you are starting with the simple resistor base
current limiting circuit something like what is used for the
SG motor. Several of my solid state designs posted to the
old group show additional transistors that dump the base
stored charge much faster than the base resistor does. And
just finding a faster transistor can be a big help.

The coil capacitance can be reduced with specific winding
methods that are better than just random windings.
Improvements by a factor of 2 or 3 are possible, I think.

Laminated iron is better than iron wires, ferrite is better
than iron from an eddy current standpoint.

Many improvements in the base drive circuit are possible
that reduce its load on the output when it is producing its
peak voltage. I have shown several in my experimental
circuits. But the ultimate improvements involve not
deriving the base drive from the coil, at all, so that no
energy is diverted from that stored in the coil.

And, of course, the transistor switch must withstand the
higher voltage without breaking down and acting like that
neon bulb dummy load. Unfortunately, substituting a higher
voltage transistor usually means also substituting a slower
transistor, so this will always be a trade off that has to
be dealt with.

--
Regards,

John Popelish

----------------------------------

What he says seems to agree with what you are saying more current higher spike. I am also thinking faster turn off higher spike. Maybee this is why I am getting high spikes from my neos, they hit with such force that the trigger is more effective, the same with Kevin's "sharp north" both magnets hitting one another creates a faster trigger, but the area of Kevin's trigger would be sharper... a smaller field of North... Hmmm what if I put two neos face to face? what kind of spike would that give me? And combine that with a reed switch....

I have as of yet figured out how to hook the reed switch up to my Bedini for triggering, I quickly tried Daftman's setup of reed switch as trigger, but I must of got something wrong.. or my transistor is not tough enough to edure the HUGE spikes, i know I killed a few transistors with my 160LB neos when starting them at slow speed. When it got up to speed then I applied power everything was ok... hmmm ..... maybee the triggering at low speed.... I remember Kevin got best results at 130 RPM... Maybee high speed is not the real ticket, but rather optimal turn on and turn off times?

[Sephiroth]

dambit, you are absolutely right. Of course some current is required but measuring the current on the output is not an accurate way to measure the total output of the SSG.

I have a theory that SSGs (at least most of them) output too much radiant and not enough current to ideally charge batteries. The charge in the battery from the raw output tends to be "fluffy" as a few people have mentioned, and I believe this is due to the chemical nature of the batteries. However the raw output is ideal for charging capacitors, which as we now know, should be discharged just a few volts above the charging voltage. By capturing the spikes in a capacitor we can then lower the voltage of the output but increase the charge.

Or to look at it another way, discharging high voltage into the batteries increases the voltage of the batteries, but discharging high CHARGE into the batteries increases the charge of the battery.

At least that's what I think at the moment

Mart,
This is from a new setup that I am using to test the new transistors it was with a single trifilar coil (1 power, 1 recovery, and 1 trigger) with an iron filing core. Approx 800 turns.

I wasn't using the trigger winding. Transistor was triggered via reed switch which I'm playing around with at the moment.

the rotor is a vcr head with 6 double stacked 20mm x 10mm x 5mm ceramic magnets in the standard north pole configuration.

Since that shot I have wired up a second coil and put the recovery coils in series to a bridge rectifier. Getting some really bizarre scope shots now.

Check this one out!
PICT0228.JPG

You can see the pulse come on just before TDC and then there is a small spike. But then when the coil is directly in between the rotor magnets, a HUGE spike comes out from nowhere!

What's that about?!

Had some other interesting waves... Like sometimes the output pulse goes into resonance. By that I mean instead of a single large pulse, there is a series of large, very high frequency pulses. haven't got a shot of that at the moment but I'll get a pic tonight.

I've also been seeing spikes when the transistor turns ON... will get more shots tonight.

[dambit]

This coil works much much much better than my solid bolt Iron core (600 turns 20 awg 24 awg bifilar wound). The motor really runs fast. And as a quick reading I can easily get say 50ma out for 100 ma in put (without taking time to dial it in etc). My solid iron core coil I was lucky if I could pull 30mA out if I put 100 mA input always using 12V in and 12V out type of a setup.

Hi all,

I'm only using the above quote as an example, not to single anyone out. Sorry Binzer.

I was under the impression that we are not looking for lots of current on the output. A little is fine but my understanding of the SG is that it is designed to deliver a radiant potential to charge to batetries and not to output more current than is required to run the device. The extra energy is to be found in the battery and not the charger. In my own little tests I have found that when the output of the SG reaches a point that is very close to the input, the radient spike becomes smaller. And in that case the SG (or SSG) would be supplying a more conventional charge and not so much of a radiant charge.

After all didn't JB himself state in EFTV 2 "If you have current, you have no radient."

Cheers,

Steve.

[theremart]

RE: Scope shots..

Hi mart, the scope shot seems to be identical whether it is connected to the positive or the negative.

BinzerBob, I was a bit worreid that the 25mhz might be too slow but it seems adequate for viewing the waveform on a pulse motor, but might have trouble viewing the waveform on a solid state device but I don't think mine resonates above 25mhz so it should be fine. I'm just glad it works! You never know with Ebay

Seph,

I really like the size of spikes on your scope, I was wondering which setup of yours is delivering that size of spikes? My neos are the only ones that come close to that setup.

Hope you sleep every now and then.... I know when I first got my scope it was well lets explore these 600 worlds I never knew about


Mart

[BinzerBob]

Bedini Electro Magnet Iron Core vs Laminated Iron Core

Ok, I have made a new electromagnet/bedini coil. I used many 1/8" ductile iron rods Spray painted about 3" long, and bifilar wound coil 500 turns with 24 awg and 28 awg magnetic wire.

This coil works much much much better than my solid bolt Iron core (600 turns 20 awg 24 awg bifilar wound). The motor really runs fast. And as a quick reading I can easily get say 50ma out for 100 ma in put (without taking time to dial it in etc). My solid iron core coil I was lucky if I could pull 30mA out if I put 100 mA input always using 12V in and 12V out type of a setup.

I will be converting my other coil to a laminated type Iron core. I did not use the welding rods as suggested in the instructions only because it is a real pain to get those things (34 km of driving!!!! and I have to order them). However that said, I really think that the smaller the iron rods used (painted is a must!!! or else it will short out and act as a solid Iron core) the better the system will run. ie. there will be less iron core loses in the system (Edie current loses will be minimized).

Anyway, I will now be doing load and charge battery cycle testing with the new coil to compare results.

I am thinking to go with two Bedini coils. What is a good sugestion of what angle to put it at? Ie do I want them to fire off at the same time or alternate? And if I am thinking to go to a total of 3 coils maybe I would put them in phase of say 30 deg? any suggestions?

Regards,

[theremart]

I'm with you, many people on free energy community, no likes magnets motors (no electric at all) becasue magnets get depleted.... so is better a system like Bedini or Solid State induction, better cost effective

Solid State from my VERY limited experience seems to be best at reconditioning the battery, so it will receive a charge. My batteries after being on the Solid State will climb to a much higher charge than they were before. However, I have found that load testing just after being charged with Solid state has shown a "fluffy" charge. However, I have not built a heafty solid state unit yet, mine only pulls .5 Amp

So far with my testing with my solar panels I find it is best to charge directly to the battery, and not using a Bedini to charge it to get the most charge in the batteries, however that said, I think it would be very good practice to charge the battery every 10th time with the bedini to keep it in tip top shape.
( But do note I only have 15 Watts of solar cells, if you had a good array of solar cells with power to burn then by all means use the Bedini all the time )

[patmac]

Well, lets look at what we know is true, you can kill a ceramic magnet by putting a Neo with opposite polarity next to it.

I think the real answer to this would be to get a guase (sp) meter and test.

I'm with you, many people on free energy community, no likes magnets motors (no electric at all) becasue magnets get depleted.... so is better a system like Bedini or Solid State induction, better cost effective

[theremart]

Faster depletion?

Hey, Anybody can explain me this point:

Permanent magnets can get depleted faster in repulsion setup?

Permanent magnets can recover theirs poles by electrical induction?

I need to know if this is a myth.

Well, lets look at what we know is true, you can kill a ceramic magnet by putting a Neo with opposite polarity next to it.

I think the real answer to this would be to get a guase (sp) meter and test.

[patmac]

About permanent magnets

Hey, Anybody can explain me this point:

Permanent magnets can get depleted faster in repulsion setup?

Permanent magnets can recover theirs poles by electrical induction?

I need to know if this is a myth.