Bedini SG

[el-tigre]

I am resetting for another test this evening, I will try to be more specific on the exact startup and operating parameters and will post a couple of Pics of the actual rig for comments by those who have more experience.

[ren]

Im sorry if I seem skeptical but I cannot see the difference it would make El-tigre. And 200ma to 20ma is a HUGE drop, the lowest I can run one of my energizers consistently on is 30ma. Perhaps there is something I have over looked.

One question, what are you using to measure current draw? Perhaps it is something specific to Ni-Cads as most of us here havent charged them....

[el-tigre]

Hi Ren, Don't be sorry, be skeptical! This is research!
I couldn't see why this variant would make a difference either, so I am struggling to explain it, it is quite possible I am reading something incorrectly and thanks for your interest...
I am measuring current draw using a standard digital multimeter (GB Instruments GDT 11) I cross checked it with a cheap digital multimeter knockoff and they both read the same. If you refer to post 492, I am measuring amps between the (+) of input battery #1 and the transistor.

Theremart, I doubt wire size has anything to do with this effect as I have tried it with different leads. Maybe it is a Nicad idiosyncracy??

[el-tigre]

Hi Testers,

here are some specs and pics for evaluation. Is there something real here?
Can anyone confirm with their apparatus?
(Please refer to post 492 for schematic labelling)

prestart separate readings
volts B1=16.47 B2=16.92 B3(charge)=14.22
810 ohms. (*add 408 ohms to all numbers for hard wired resistor)
when B1 & B2 & B3 connected before rotation B1&B2=16.68, B3=14.40
(without the variant connected)
after stabilizing to full speed rotation B1 & B2=16.02 at 200ma. B3 = 16.30v.
now it gets interesting...
the variant connection is added and the readings after 16 minutes operation are are:
B1 & B2=15.87v at 30ma. B3 = 16.43v.
(60 minutes later B3 is 16.94v) and the amps are still 30ma.
(85 minutes in, B3 reads 17.19v and amps=30ma.
stopped it for ohm reading = 524 restart at same settings no problem)
(about 2.5 hrs in readings are B1 & B2=14.98v at 30ma. B3 = 17.72v).
last observation, when resistance reduced as low as possible, current reading was
50ma and charge voltage reads 18.11 and the rotor keeps on turning...


Please feel free to ask any questions or for any additional readings that
I can take that may help to explain this.

hope the pics work


(It's a 7 neo rotor not 6)

[ren]

Ok Heres what you need to do El tigre to confirm your results. Firstly change the battery in your multimeter, I cant be certain, but most models have a little battery icon pop up when it is flat. This can make ALL the difference. Secondly, dont bother reading amp draw with a digital

You need an analogue gauge, it has been suggested to place it in the negative leg of the circuit too. IF an analogue panel meter gives you identical results then your on to something!

Good luck

[elias]

Odd

Hi,

This seems odd, because adding a wire from the (-) of the charging battery to the (+) of one of the running batteries, does not alter the Bedini circuit apparently. Are you sure you are doing what you have stated? Can you tell us about the output current in your system?

Your two parallel batteries can be considered as one larger battery if the connections between them are ideal so adding a wire like the way you described doesn't seem to have any effect on the circuit, unless you are using a different type of circuit than Bedini's.

Also note that your amp meter is reading low battery and these meters behave not so very well with low battery.

Elias

[theremart]

Hip Hip Hurray

I can now swap batteries from my keyboard, or set a threshold voltage for the batteries to swap! At last my 12V power supply came in tonight and after fooling around with it some more, It is working!

Video of the details.
YouTube - Video 31 Battery Swapper Fully operational!

[Sephiroth]

Well dont Mart! You got there in the end!

el-tigre - Looking at the first image I can't see where you are normally attaching the negative of the charging battery... in the second photo it looks like it is wired the way it normally should so I can't see the difference.

and you say you have confirmed it on two different meters? That's interesting. Though I am a little curious about something you said earlier.

The system ran smoothly at a steady 20ma draw for 6 hrs.

Will it only run for 6 hours on 20ma before you have to swap the batteries again? What amp hours are your batteries rated at... if it will only run for 6 hours on 20ma that would make your batteries 0.06 amp hours each!

[ren]

If they are off power tools they would be at least 1 amp hour I would think, maybe 2.

[el-tigre]

Thanks Elias & Ren,

Here are the results following your suggestions...
1 Change meter battery = same readings
2. Read from supply (-) side = 200ma
3. Read from supply (+) side simultaneously = 200ma
(This is expected no? amps in = amps out less circuit losses = too small to measure)
4. Connect bridge from charge (-) to supply (+)
5. Read amps on supply (-) = 200ma. Amps on supply (+)= 90ma
This is consistent with but a bit higher than my previous readings and it might explain why you
have not replicated my results because if you are reading amps from supply
(-), this effect seems to be readable only on supply (+) side.
(Unexpected, but who ever said these systems behave expectedly)

As for circuit configuration, I am testing standard components assembled per Sepiroth
excellent schematics on youtube. Only exception is 1n4007 diodes throughout and the
dead analogue meter I hacked to hold the parts and provide convenient plugs to tap
for readings so as not to bump aligator clips off of batteries.
I also wired the 400 ohm zero adjust pot from the old meter in series with the 5k ohm
large pot for fine tuning and this works well as you can jiggle out 1-2 ohms adjustments with it.

So now the question is why can we only see it on the supply (+) side and if it really is there,
where is about 50% of the supply (+) amps going when you connect the bridge?

I will try to score a couple of panel meters to see if I can get more accurate amp readings. Any suggestions for mail order suppliers?

Sep, I ran the system for about 6 hrs in the previous post before I deliberately shut it down for the night... (my wife has learned not to let me run experiments unattended... most of the explosions are small and the fires are confined to 1 or 2 rooms at least)

The batteries do not have an AH rating on them, they are the cordless drill (very crappy) type and like all nicads, once they drop below rated voltage their power falls off very rapidly. One I rescued from the scrap bin as it would not hold a charge. It seems to now even though it had been frozen in my garage for the last 8 months. Some internet info seems to say they are 1500mAh. I have not done a full charge to full drain test under both conditions yet.

[elias]

Sorry to burst your bubble ...

Well,

It is evident that you only bypass your amp meter. By connecting your so called bridge the current goes more from the bridge than the amp-meter, because of its lower impedance. You should monitor the current passing from your bridge too!

Elias

[theremart]

Radiant Soup

Last night I tried the soup can experiment. I found that it did indeed cut down on the voltage of the Primary battery, however it severely hampered the charging of the batteries the wheel served more of a motor than a energizer. Less amps were getting to the charging battery. I am not sure if further tuning might of gotten more out of this, but this does show me that metal around the coils does have a major influence on the outcome. I am thinking about the metal in the tables I have been setting my SSG on, wondering hmm has this been a factor too, and why I got different results then as well...

Since I used all of my relays for my battery swapper ( at least the ones that gave me good performance ) I think I will attempt this with some fine bobbin type coils I have... I am wondering if it is something about the relay's construction that does improve performance.

One thing I like about charging batteries in parallel is they are consistently all at the same level. You can swap battery to battery and not have to adjust the SSG as much.

I am now using 12V to charge 36V with the battery swapper. Non stop action

mart

[Samemf]

hi ,

I have found that running the digital meter for amps is unreliable and makes the bedini crcuit run differently and not to is full potential with less current draw .

I tested this using a digital meter in series with the supply and with out a digital meter using a clamp meter .

clamp meter i found was alot better and theres a major difference in current draw readings and bedini performance .

the digital meter like restricts the current in some way ?

I suggest if you can get yourself a clamp meter and measure your current reading again will be better test .

Sam

[theremart]

RE: Clamp meter

hi ,

I suggest if you can get yourself a clamp meter and measure your current reading again will be better test .

Sam

I have run into issues with a clamp meter ( at least mine ) it seems to do great for measuring voltages about half an amp, but below that I have found it to error. Analog meters for me seem to be the way to go, it is what John Bedini uses for measuring amps.

my .02

[linesrg]

Clamp Meters

Good Evening All,

Be aware that clamp meters will be greatly affected by the presence of both magnets and the the magnetic fields around the coil(s) so they are not reliable devices.

There is no simple satisfactory way of measuring what is charging the output battery.

Regards

Richard