Bedini SG

[theremart]

ahhh you were asking about gauge of wire...

( Sorry feeling very dense now )

I use what is called 20 gauge wire. Which is .5 mill I guess. and 23 gauge for my trigger wire.

Wire Gauge Tables

[dambit]

Pic of circuit

Hi all,

Just thought i would post a pic of one of my new circuits for my multi-coil device. This particular circuit of for my master coil. There are a few pieces that are not inplace yet, but they will be added once my coils arrive. The circiut for my slave coil is basically the same.

Cheers,

Steve

[Sephiroth]

I painstakingly wound a trifilar coil last night, making sure it is a perfect as possible (using the "paper between layers" method ) to experiment with using a strand as a recovery coil. Until now I have only used bifilar.

Though as I was wrapping it, I couldn't figure out the purpose for it

We're only using the Fly back, so what is the point of the bridge rectifier?

and wouldn't it half the strength of the coil since there are only half as many turns for the same cubic area as a bifilar coil.

Any thoughts

[theremart]

RE: Trifilar

I have made one as well. It seemed every time I went to extract energy from the coil's 3rd winding, the charging rate on the battery hit the ground. I have not built the more advanced circuits, only the SSG, I am wondering how Bedini gets around this. It appears he uses a 555 to take "slices" of energy from this coil.

[N O G]

Coils

so what is the point of the bridge rectifier?

and wouldn't it half the strength of the coil since there are only half as many turns for the same cubic area as a bifilar coil



HI there , the rectifier stops the flow of currents returning to the coil when pulsing the battery and to convert ac to dc for the cap and battery. (did you notice the third winding is in opposite direction to the other two)Cap pulsing takes a long time to charge batteries and is hard to get a good balance unless you know what your doing .

[N O G]

charging

[QUOTE=theremart;21542] It seemed every time I went to extract energy from the coil's 3rd winding, the charging rate on the battery hit the ground.

Hi there , what ive found is that you carnt charge a battery on the back side of the coil and have a cap setup (use one setup or the other).They interfear with each other in the coil(to much unbalancing)the current dosent know where to go.

[Sephiroth]

lol... yeah, I understand the bridge rectifier is for the AC off the secondary coil...

but what I am saying is that when the coil first becomes energized it induces current in the secondary at an equal voltage to the primary voltage. Then when the coil de-energizes, that is when we get the voltage spike going in the opposite direction to the originally induced current from the coil energizing.

So here is why I don't understand why we use the bridge. The energy being gathered by the secondary coil when the coil energizes is being taken directly from the current supplied from the battery.

and that current will be at an equal voltage to the primary voltage.

So unless the charging battery or capacitor is at a lower voltage than the primary battery there won't even be any current in the secondary coil and so the recitifier is useless. And if the charging bank's voltage is lower then the input voltage then it will just be feeding off power from the primary. The real charging power comes from the collapsing field which induces current/voltage in the opposite direction and so only one diode should be neccessary even with a trifilar coil set up like it is in the bifilar.

Or am I completely wrong?

[Aaron]

capacitive discharge and trifilars and mechanical switching

Having a 3rd recovery winding gives you the ability to do things that the SSG (diode picking off the spike from the collector - really, collecting spike from the coil is a better way to look at it)...won't do. Isolated windings you can do things you can't by picking the spike of the same winding.

Yes, use one or the other.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post16239
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post16242

I highly recommend that anyone try using MECHANICAL SWITCH with points/contacts. You will get gains that are not available with solid state switches.

Charge the cap bank, discharge with mechanical switch to output batts.
That dual battery charger schematic shows the concept and I show you two versions I did.

The BEST results I ever got were with the bicycle wheel one, 2000 turn trifilar, charging 198,000 uf to 2-4 volts above the dead battery...you of course have to adjust the pulley diameter in order to have it trigger at that based on how long it takes to charge the caps.

That thread I posted 2 links to above might be a better thread to discuss this instead of the regular SG thread but whatever works.

[N O G]

Cap Setups

[QUOTE=Sephiroth;21630]lol... yeah, I understand the bridge rectifier is for the AC off the secondary coil...

Sorry Sephiroth i didnt realize you have good knowledge of things Ive found the rectifer to not let the rest of the sg circuit see the third winding directly ,just curculates the sg currents through the third winding. (no direct draw from primary battery or its windings)keeping the sg curcuit efficient and seperate. When the spike with no current hits the third winding the rectifier lets it through to the cap.This is what i see but could be wrong.To me its just a way to show how bemf can be captured without direct draw from the coil. I personly found better results with the bifiliar multi coil setup ..I like your utube site nice work.

[elias]

Bedini vs Muller,

Hi everyone,

Muller's generator has so similarities with the Bedini SG. The main difference is in the fact that it has placed the number of coils and magnets such that the coils and magnets never completely align, which makes it impossible for the magnets to stick to the coils and completely align, thus making the rotor more easily turn. such as 8 magnets + 7 coils. See this circuit diagram: Muller Dynamo Application Home Page
He has used a bridge rectifier instead of a dingle diode. Maybe using a Bedini/Muller design will improve the overall efficiency.
Placing the magnets and coil as Muller proposed, and charging the battery as Bedini has proposed. This may increase the output mechanical energy as well as charging efficiency of the system.

Anyone has any suggestions?

[ashtweth]

Self runner time

Guys, we have just finished our SSG, have a second winding done ready to try with RF elf runner. Ill have some snaps soon, my idea is to have it on an ALTERNATING battery bank.

Ie- you cannot charge a battery and make it do work at the same time, if you have the input battery of the SSG and a relay with another battery bank with RF's self runner circuit you are going to have a longer battery life and possible better results? lets see shall we.

any advice is welcome, will be a week or tow ill get snaps up.

Ash

[elias]

lol... yeah, I understand the bridge rectifier is for the AC off the secondary coil...

but what I am saying is that when the coil first becomes energized it induces current in the secondary at an equal voltage to the primary voltage. Then when the coil de-energizes, that is when we get the voltage spike going in the opposite direction to the originally induced current from the coil energizing.

So here is why I don't understand why we use the bridge. The energy being gathered by the secondary coil when the coil energizes is being taken directly from the current supplied from the battery.

and that current will be at an equal voltage to the primary voltage.

So unless the charging battery or capacitor is at a lower voltage than the primary battery there won't even be any current in the secondary coil and so the recitifier is useless. And if the charging bank's voltage is lower then the input voltage then it will just be feeding off power from the primary. The real charging power comes from the collapsing field which induces current/voltage in the opposite direction and so only one diode should be neccessary even with a trifilar coil set up like it is in the bifilar.

Or am I completely wrong?

Hi Sephiroth!

Here is what the circuit with a bridge rectifier looks like:


This is the circuit which is used for the Muller Generator, which he claims have got about COP = 1.7. I wonder. The extra energy comes from the moving magnets acting as a motor. I am really optimistic of a Bedini/Muller combination.

Elias

[dambit]

Impedance matching?

Hi All,

When JB talks about impedance matching and in particular matching the impedance of the coil(s) to the batteries, does he mean build the coil to match the lowest impedance of the batteries? i.e charged, or just build them to have the lowest impedance possable. I was watching the EFTV2 dvd again today and it got me thinking.

Cheers,

Steve.

[theremart]

RE: queston.

Hi All,

When JB talks about impedance matching and in particular matching the impedance of the coil(s) to the batteries, does he mean build the coil to match the lowest impedance of the batteries? i.e charged, or just build them to have the lowest impedance possable. I was watching the EFTV2 dvd again today and it got me thinking.

Cheers,

Steve.

I have the same question.

You will also see this in the thread about solar power, where John says to match the impedance of the solar panel to the coil.

My guess is, ( I hope some one corrects me ) that there is an advantage to match the voltage comming in to coil. I have found that if I use too little wire that the coil will heat up big time.

Exactly what does this mean?

I would like to know...

Mart

[theremart]

Maybee an answer...

Found this as I was digging in the Bedini SG group..... Might hold an answer about matching the impedence with the target set of batteries.....

-----------------

Hi Monsieur and ALL,

if your batt's only last 1 hr, then you are pulling them down WAY WAY TOO FAST

<snip>

John has stressed this to me, that the SG is a 1 to 1 charger, what
you put in, you get out, no OU..... But when you charge 4 or 5 batts
from one batt that is a matched set, you get 4-5 charges for the price
of 1, so long as you follow the batt rules..............!!!!!

1. Never discharge a batt or bank, faster than C20, anything less is ok up to a point,
and on these small batts C24 rate is more like it.....
Roamer has posted how to figure the C20 rate calculations elsewhere on
the SG fourm.........

2. never go below 12.00V on the small batts, starter batts and marine
deep cycles, and 10.5V on the true deep cycles golf cart, solar Batts,
etc....

3. because of the currentless radiant spikes charging the batts, they
will start to last longer at that C24 rate, and charge up faster every
time, once they have been through a few cycles and
conditioned..............

4. Your coil or coils should match your matched set of batts..... if
your C24 rate is .4 amp, than you can't pull a very big coil or only one
coil, if the C24 is more like .8 amp than you can pull a larger wire
coil at .8 amp, or 2 smaller wire .4 A coils that at their higher rpm
might only pull .6 amp between them, if you have a big marine deep
cycle batts it's C24 at some thing like 1.2 amp than you can pull a
really big wire coil like Roamer talks about, or you can pull 2 .6
amp coils or 3 or 4 smaller amp coils
sweet spot = highest rpm / lowest current draw point of a coil or
coils, right before more resistance will make extra pulses......
bigger wire coil = higher rpm, more current,--- more smaller coils =
higher rpm at less current draw for each coil because of the higher rpm,
but more total current than just one coil
and all this depends on your rotor number of magnets etc as far as what
the sweet spot rpm and amprage is gona be for a given coil size or
number of coils running at that sweet spot rpm

you want to charge as many batts as possable, from one rotor all the
time, if you are not charging 4 batts from one batt even if you have to
let the trickle charger make up the diffrence for a while, than ya aint
getting it..........

pay for 1 charge, get your first charge back, and 3 charges for free,
or pay for 2 and get 6 for free at a higher rpm...........

if you got it running so that you are getting the first one back and 3
for free, every time you discharge 1 of the 5, then as John says you
should be jumping up and down........

OK as John says, one more time, how much current comming from the
drive Batt, vs how much current is going to the charging batt, is not
what we are looking for here, when tuned to the sweet spot, the
charging current will ALWAYS be FAR LESS THAN the Current Driving the
Coil...!!!!!!! SO, what is charging the batts.....? the CURRENT
LESS Radiaint Voltage Spikes.... so forget about the in/out current
ratio thing and LOOPING as that is not where the magic happens,
it's really all about the batterys, and NOT about the motor.........

-----------------------------------
If I am reading this correctly, then the coil we have should match the c-20 rating..... small coils for small batteries, and larger coil / wire for the big batteries.

So.... since I am drawing 2 amps to charge my golf cart batteries, I might need the heavy duty speaker coils to match.......

So... am I to have a resistance of 2 amps if my c-20 rate is 2 amps in my coils?