Bedini SG

[BinzerBob]

Reed Switch for SSG motor

Quick question... when charging a 12V lead acid Gel cell (1.3 Ahr) with the SSG motor, what should be the cut off voltage that indicates stop charging? Right now I am using 15V or so (sometimes I catch it at 16V).

I believe a reed switch would have a solid on off type action. Making the rate of change of the current supplied to and disconnected from the energized coil very very fast, and as a consequence the faster the rate of change the greater the voltage spike (radiant). Also a reed switch might have a certain amount of lag time so the time it is turned on might be longer than with the standard SSG motor configuration. With a longer time on state, greater energy could be stored into the electromagnet and thus this in combination with the very fast on off switch action would likely result in a higher voltage spike. Just my 2 cents, which might agree with previous comments.

[theremart]

RE: cut off voltage.

Quick question... when charging a 12V lead acid Gel cell (1.3 Ahr) with the SSG motor, what should be the cut off voltage that indicates stop charging? Right now I am using 15V or so (sometimes I catch it at 16V).

I believe a reed switch would have a solid on off type action. Making the rate of change of the current supplied to and disconnected from the energized coil very very fast, and as a consequence the faster the rate of change the greater the voltage spike (radiant). Also a reed switch might have a certain amount of lag time so the time it is turned on might be longer than with the standard SSG motor configuration. With a longer time on state, greater energy could be stored into the electromagnet and thus this in combination with the very fast on off switch action would likely result in a higher voltage spike. Just my 2 cents, which might agree with previous comments.

Very good question.

With small batteries, if I was using a conventional charger, I would not have it on for a long time as it does seem to cook the battery when it reaches a fully charged state ( sad to say it cooks the batttery anyway if you do comparison of charging of the SSG with the conventional charge)

But I have found varied opinions on this out there, some say the SSG can cook the battery, others say it cannot. I have had some 13 amp hour batteries on the SSG for over 2 weeks at a time with .5 amp on them. They seem to function very well after that.

For myself, I tend to stop when my small batteries reach 15V. I really don't want to find out what the upper limit is by crossing it.

Mart

[BinzerBob]

Perfomance of new Laminated Coil

Really I am not sure which coil is better ... Laminated coil verses Solid. I would think that the Laminated core coil is better for the obviously already stated reasons (edie Currents etc). However, my first tests with the Laminated coil, seem to show that less energy is transfered to the battery than the solid core coil setup.

I did not dial in the Laminated coil SSG setup (no scope), and No RPM guage so it is hard to do. But... one thing I can say about the Laminated core coil is that it seems to have multiple operating points of resonance, many more than the solid core coil. I can see this phenominon by watching the input current as I am backing off my 2k ohm pot. Ampres go down and RPM increases then all of a sudden as I continue to increase the Ohms on the pot the current increases on my input side of the system. This happens very predictablly and also many times 3 or 4 times until I reach about 75 ma input and about 2k on my pot (but at the extream the RPM starts to slow down).

I am doing testing... it continues.. One thing I wanted to mention was that the system we are dealing with seems to be related to a RCL circuit. There are resonances at various R values. There is something that is used in AC power circuit theory called phasors. And phasors are used to calculate the impedance of a circuit component. And the impedance of a circuit component is relatated to the frequency.

In our case the rotating Mass of the magnets changes RPM and so then does the phasor (or the impedance of various components). with these changes it is natural to observe different resonance points.

I am kind of removed from what I studied some 15 years ago, but sometimes it comes back ... Sorry if it is coming back in a bad way.

Any comments

[theremart]

Testing of the core.

Really I am not sure which coil is better ... Laminated coil verses Solid. I would think that the Laminated core coil is better for the obviously already stated reasons (edie Currents etc). However, my first tests with the Laminated coil, seem to show that less energy is transfered to the battery than the solid core coil setup.

I did not dial in the Laminated coil SSG setup (no scope), and No RPM guage so it is hard to do. But... one thing I can say about the Laminated core coil is that it seems to have multiple operating points of resonance, many more than the solid core coil. I can see this phenominon by watching the input current as I am backing off my 2k ohm pot. Ampres go down and RPM increases then all of a sudden as I continue to increase the Ohms on the pot the current increases on my input side of the system. This happens very predictablly and also many times 3 or 4 times until I reach about 75 ma input and about 2k on my pot (but at the extream the RPM starts to slow down).

I am doing testing... it continues.. One thing I wanted to mention was that the system we are dealing with seems to be related to a RCL circuit. There are resonances at various R values. There is something that is used in AC power circuit theory called phasors. And phasors are used to calculate the impedance of a circuit component. And the impedance of a circuit component is relatated to the frequency.

In our case the rotating Mass of the magnets changes RPM and so then does the phasor (or the impedance of various components). with these changes it is natural to observe different resonance points.

I am kind of removed from what I studied some 15 years ago, but sometimes it comes back ... Sorry if it is coming back in a bad way.

Any comments

I have tested various cores. The best core I have found has been Toroidal Ferrite cores. They are awesome with Neos as they do not have the drag.

Yes edie currents are a problem that is why John Bedini suggests to let the welding rods rust. Others paint them. But I will not say what will be best for you... only I know from my testing what works for me.

[EgmQC]

Quick question... when charging a 12V lead acid Gel cell (1.3 Ahr) with the SSG motor, what should be the cut off voltage that indicates stop charging? Right now I am using 15V or so (sometimes I catch it at 16V).

I believe a reed switch would have a solid on off type action. Making the rate of change of the current supplied to and disconnected from the energized coil very very fast, and as a consequence the faster the rate of change the greater the voltage spike (radiant). Also a reed switch might have a certain amount of lag time so the time it is turned on might be longer than with the standard SSG motor configuration. With a longer time on state, greater energy could be stored into the electromagnet and thus this in combination with the very fast on off switch action would likely result in a higher voltage spike. Just my 2 cents, which might agree with previous comments.

Hi BinzerBob,

Your question is a bit hard to answer because there not one but many factor to say if the battery is fully charged or not. For Gel cell usualy at full charge its 2.45v per cell but if the battery is old or damaged this parameter can change because maybe it will not accept more than 2.30 per cell or maybe less, than if you try to push more the battery will begin to heat so the temperature should be monitored too to ensure a correct end of charge.

Im not a expert so maybe other parameter should be monitored too, i dont know.

Best Regards,
Eric

[Mark]

Scr

I am having a problem finding the 16RIA80 SCR. I am currently using a 800 volt SCR with only a 30 mA 1gi, part # NTE5548. I am not using a cap yet but thought that my charging rate would go up. I also dont hear any clicking noise that others have said they hear. I'm wonding if the "switch" is always open and not building up any higher voltage or current? I am charging new ACDelco auto batterys and can only get them up to about 12.85 volts. Does anybody no if this SCR will work? I will be trying to put in a cap next but wanted to try using just the SCR first. I'm leary that when I hook up the caps I'll start blowing transistors. I am using MJE 3055's. 300 Feet of 20awg wire (3) and one 26awg trigger, litz wound. I only have 1 transistor hooked up dirrectcly but the other 2 share the same heatsink and power is comming thru them. It made no difference in speed or output if I hooked up the other 2 coil wires to them. I then took the other 2 coil wires and hooked them up in series with a cap and am charging a battery with them also. I will be winding a couple of more coils soon and want to know the best way to use them to get the best output or possibly a self runner. Thanks for anyones help in advance!

[patmac]

Hey anybody has tried this?

I'm charging the 4 amp batt with Bedini SG, I've noticed that stop charging on 12.54 volts, then I doubled the voltage suppy from 12 volts to 24 volts and doubled adjusting BASE potentiometer at transistor, then rotor goes at same speed, amp draws there is no much difference, but CHARGING GOOOO FAST. Obiusly Back EMF is proportional to Voltage Source on coil.

I'm waiting for yours comments.

[Kingman]

Vishay 16RIA80

Hi Mark, I searched the web for some time before I found the 16RIA80 Thyristor made by Vishay available from Allied Electronics. I want to warn you in that they are a bit pricey! They cost around 10 bucks USD a piece!
I'm in the process of building a Cap Pulser right now that I'm using the 16RIA80 in. I do not have any results at this time as to how it will perform. I'm building it to the schematic that comes in the Bearden/Bedini FEG book. My book came with a additional loose page that they added after publication that was a corrections page for pages 46 and 47 of the book. In this schematic they show a place for a 800 volt SCR but do not recommend a specific SCR and so this where I'm putting the 16RIA80. I'm also using the 2N3584 as well as the 555 timer and a 4N35 opto because I could not find a H11D1 from a supplier that I wanted to do business with. I have already built the circuit on a proto board and know it works. I just use LED's to represent for testing as to how everything is working and that it is working correctly. I also added a pot so that I can adjust the duty cycle of the 555. I believe I placed the pot between pins 7 & 8 of the 555.

I hope this helps!
Stephen
"Do the thing and you will get the energy to do the thing"

[selamatg]

I have try up to 40 Volt

Hi Patmac,

I have try up to 40 Volt using my power supply... First, look very fast on charging, but for some reason (not sure yet) the charging battery totally dead after few cycle. Now, I'm back to normal voltage 12V to 12V or 24V to 24V.

Maybe someone can explain what happen to my battery.

[theremart]

Re: 24v

Hey anybody has tried this?

I'm charging the 4 amp batt with Bedini SG, I've noticed that stop charging on 12.54 volts, then I doubled the voltage suppy from 12 volts to 24 volts and doubled adjusting BASE potentiometer at transistor, then rotor goes at same speed, amp draws there is no much difference, but CHARGING GOOOO FAST. Obiusly Back EMF is proportional to Voltage Source on coil.

I'm waiting for yours comments.

Yep, 24V is a much better place to live, but the smoke signals are much more pronouced

[patmac]

ooops, what is a smoke signal?

have you a scope that show that signals?

[theremart]

ooops, what is a smoke signal?

have you a scope that show that signals?

I was making a joke. It was a means of communication of putting a blanket over a fire to send signals to others by shaping the column of smoke rising from the fire.

I was indicating that the more voltage you have the more likely you may be creating smoke ever so quickly if you make a mistake.

[patmac]

are you speaking about get burn components?

Certainly more voltage transistor can be burned faster, very high Back EMF can destroy transistor but my motor only have 350 turns, so BackEMF no burn the transistor and neon is very bright .

I was thinking that is better add more coil that add more wire to the same coil...

[BinzerBob]

Recant a bit

Really I am not sure which coil is better ... Laminated coil verses Solid. I would think that the Laminated core coil is better for the obviously already stated reasons (edie Currents etc). However, my first tests with the Laminated coil, seem to show that less energy is transfered to the battery than the solid core coil setup.



:

Actually I want to take that back. The new Laminated core, SSG motor actually took less energy to charge the same lead acid gel cell than what I have experienced so far, and also less time. I made a mistake calculating the energy input. The effect might be because my battery is getting conditioned to the SSG way of charging, or it might be the better coil, or a combination of the two effects.

Regards,

[Guruji]

multicoil neon

Hi guys when doing multicoils one has to do a neon for each transistor?
Thanks