Bedini SG

[dambit]

I read somewhere here that he has 5 coils on each spool. If that's the case then each transistor is only drawing 200mA. Not much at all, and that puts it inline with what I have found my larger coils like operate at. Each of his large 2V solar batteries is 1600Ah, that makes the c20 rate 80 amps. 10 amps draw from the primary bank is barely going to make a dent.

[Littleremnant]

Hey Mart,

No fuss here, just trying to sort some things out. I have never read that we
are separating the winds in the coils. If you do it that way it would make
some sense. I am running lots of WINDS in my coils, but I can still get the
entire thing down to 200 ma. Apparently I am in the ballpark with what I am
thinking as you and dambit seem to verify. So now I know not to try to get
a good charge with 200 ma on ALL WINDS total on a coil. I actually started
turning my coils up last night, but will need the day to get everything done.

I have a hard time figuring out the base resistors. No one has ever came up
(that I know of) a perfect way to install that base resistor. There should be
a formula to get that based on the resistance of the coil, but I certainly am
not smart enough to figure it out. I have many many coils and I still don't
know if the base resistors are correct in any of them. I usually blow a lot of
transistors trying to get in the ballpark, and then still don't know with
any certainty. Some resistors get hot, some don't. Makes no sense either.
NONE should get warm at all I think.

By the way, I use four tranistors on all of my coils.

Well, thanks for the info guys. If you can help me with the base resistance
it would be appreciated. I also seem to be very hard headed so if it seems
I gripe a lot over nothing, please forgive me. Once I get something, I've
got it. This base resistance thing seems would be an easy thing, but I haven't
found a understandable answer. I would like to start using MJL transistors,
but I am not putting a $4 transistor in a machine and not know how to keep
it cool.

[BinzerBob]

The 3055 transistor

I have to say that I have witnessed first hand what others have been saying about the bedini motor 3055 transistor.

I originally was using one that was manufactured in China. If I did not have a load on the output side of the bedini SSG motor the 3055 transistor would get very hot very very fast, within a second and I would jump to unplug the circuit. Also with this transistor I could not get above about 60 Volt voltage spikes. Finally it came a time when I was not fast enough to unplug and the 3055 and it popped (no smoke just got really hot).

I replaced it with a RCA manufactured 3055 which I purchased from a surplus store. The transistor must be about 20 years old (but new). Now I can run the bedini SSG motor with a no charge battery with out any problem for minutes at a time and my voltage spikes are say in and around 80 volts. Note that when I don't have a charge battery I put a variable load resistor of say about 100 ohms up to 1000 ohms.

Also ... I am playing around with a small pulse DC motor as well. From the Pulse DC motor I can easily get close to a 400 volt spike. The transistor I am using for that motor is a really huge one Darlington type made in Japan that I purchased about 15 years ago from a surplus store (from an old circuit board that was probably 10 years old). I can not find any specifics on that transistor (it does have numbers on it) but from the looks of it it seems like it can handle much current and switch current very fast.


I hope all of ya have a have a good day.

C U

[Joit]

Well, right place for my Question.

Do want someone explain, for what the Resistor is actually for,
when you use a Potentiometer?
Does the Resistor really make sense in this Case?

With the Pot you (maybe) can adjust the best Moment for the Pulse,
and probatly 2nd Effect, to dont get a Short, and lower down the current at the Base.

The Bulb, i know, is for, that the Transistor turns on and off,
but i think, you can make that too, with putting a poled Cap between '+' and '-' from Batterie.

[theremart]

Sorting things out.

Hey Mart,

No fuss here, just trying to sort some things out. I have never read that we
are separating the winds in the coils. If you do it that way it would make
some sense. I am running lots of WINDS in my coils, but I can still get the
entire thing down to 200 ma. Apparently I am in the ballpark with what I am
thinking as you and dambit seem to verify. So now I know not to try to get
a good charge with 200 ma on ALL WINDS total on a coil. I actually started
turning my coils up last night, but will need the day to get everything done.

I have a hard time figuring out the base resistors. No one has ever came up
(that I know of) a perfect way to install that base resistor. There should be
a formula to get that based on the resistance of the coil, but I certainly am
not smart enough to figure it out. I have many many coils and I still don't
know if the base resistors are correct in any of them. I usually blow a lot of
transistors trying to get in the ballpark, and then still don't know with
any certainty. Some resistors get hot, some don't. Makes no sense either.
NONE should get warm at all I think.

By the way, I use four tranistors on all of my coils.

Well, thanks for the info guys. If you can help me with the base resistance
it would be appreciated. I also seem to be very hard headed so if it seems
I gripe a lot over nothing, please forgive me. Once I get something, I've
got it. This base resistance thing seems would be an easy thing, but I haven't
found a understandable answer. I would like to start using MJL transistors,
but I am not putting a $4 transistor in a machine and not know how to keep
it cool.

----------------------
No fight here, I just want to know I have felt the frustration you are feeling after putting so many hours of work into a system that is supposed to work, and it doesn't.

For ideas about how to do the multi coiler I would suggest looking at this site.

Erwin's Work Shop

Erin has done quality work in making the multi coil systems understandable and doable.

You can learn more about the big machine John has here..

John Bedini and Peter Lindemann's Medium and Large Motor-Energizer Project

[Littleremnant]

Hey Mart,

Thanks for the info. I have studied Edwin's stuff for about a year and have
actually copied some of his setups. He DOES do some good work, but then
again, unless I missed it (and I have read his stuff many times), he still
doesn't say how he determines his base restistors.

Yesterday I turned all of my coils down to the 1 amp range and it seems to
be charging like crazy now. I still want answers to my questions (as I just
guess at my base resistors, but maybe someone will come up with the
formula. I know people are on here that can do it. It is going to be based on
the ohmage of the coil. I have several different sizes of coils unlike Edwin
who makes all of his coils just alike, and I will too in the future, but that
would make no difference as I would still be in the dark on how to set them
no matter what size coil I used. I have found that the bigger the coil, the
more resistance I have to have and I try to get it down to where my
final ONE resistor out is around 10 ohms. I have a resistor off of each of my
transistors (as John does on his machines), and then go to ONE final
resistor. I don't know why, but I try to get the largest base resistance that I
can. Does anyone know if this is correct. THIS is where I am confused.

Thanks again everyone for helping with this stuff. It is extremely important
to me as I live off grid.

[Joit]

Well, its normal, that the first Time Batteries will fast charge up.
First, if they come to the last 2 Volts till 12V it goes very slow.
Thats the Part, where it add the Amps.

But seems noone is able to answer my Question about the Resistor.

Now i can assume, noone really knows it,
and only build the Things or give out Links, 'where you can find it out by yourself??

[Hoppy]

Hey Mart,

Thanks for the info. I have studied Edwin's stuff for about a year and have
actually copied some of his setups. He DOES do some good work, but then
again, unless I missed it (and I have read his stuff many times), he still
doesn't say how he determines his base restistors.

Yesterday I turned all of my coils down to the 1 amp range and it seems to
be charging like crazy now. I still want answers to my questions (as I just
guess at my base resistors, but maybe someone will come up with the
formula. I know people are on here that can do it. It is going to be based on
the ohmage of the coil. I have several different sizes of coils unlike Edwin
who makes all of his coils just alike, and I will too in the future, but that
would make no difference as I would still be in the dark on how to set them
no matter what size coil I used. I have found that the bigger the coil, the
more resistance I have to have and I try to get it down to where my
final ONE resistor out is around 10 ohms. I have a resistor off of each of my
transistors (as John does on his machines), and then go to ONE final
resistor. I don't know why, but I try to get the largest base resistance that I
can. Does anyone know if this is correct. THIS is where I am confused.

Thanks again everyone for helping with this stuff. It is extremely important
to me as I live off grid.

Hi Littleremnant / Joit

The resistor is in circuit to limit the transistor base current. A transistor is technically a transfer resistor. Each transistor has a current gain expressed in a specification data sheet as hfe. The MJL21194 transistor has a typical hfe of 30, although this figure will vary from transistor to transistor. If say 10mA is allowed to flow in the base / emitter loop of a transistor using a suitable value base resistor and the transistor has a gain of 30, then 300mA (10mA x the hfe of 30) will flow between in the collector / emitter loop assuming a load is connected. A transistor is therefore a current operated device where the control of current is made by varying the base resistance.

When applied to the Bedini energiser, we determine how much current we wish to flow in our power coils. John Bedini has recommended that a minimum of 1 Amp should be available when using the MJL21194 power transistor . The current level dictates the gauge of wire used for the coil. The higher the collector / emitter current is, the greater will be the spike voltage discharged into the battery.

I suggest that anyone wishing to learn more about the design and operation of Bedini energisers, join the Bedini Monopole 3 forum at:- Bedini_Monopole3 : Bedini_Monopole3 where 'experts' are on line to help. Basic theory about how transistors operate can be found in various articles on the web.

Clive

[Joit]

Hi,
Thanks alot Hoppy, for the nice info.
Basically i know, how a Transistor and a Resistor work,
just been not sure, if this one has a 'magical' Effect.

But as i understand now, is, to limit the Current to the Base at the Transmitter.
I have a Potentiometer, what has still a Baseresistance of +- 7Ohm,
so i think i am save, to dont cook my 3055.
Nice explained, thanks again.
Even when it seems, its hard for some others.

And Datasheet, fiches techniques, Data Sheet pdf, catalogue fiche technique is a nice Page for look for the Values of Electronicparts.

[tjnlsn255]

Base resistor and coils...

Hi,

I am no expert but what I do is use a 1K 25watt variable resistor and measure the amps with a meter as I tune my SSG.... at some point you really can find the "sweet" spot for rpm and amps.... then I turn off the system and measure the resistance of the pot and the fixed base resistor which is 100 ohms.

I am using a bifiler coil 850 turns of 24 trigger and 20 gauge magnet wire for the power coil....with a copper coated welding rod core and my base resistance is 200 ohms total.... 100 fixed and 100 on the pot....

Hope that helps......

Tj

[BinzerBob]

Resistor Value

What I have found out about the resistor value ...

Yes I agree that the resistor controls the transistor and a certain value is needed to get a good pulse to the base of the transistor, however, the way I understand the Bedini circuit and that same resistor is that the value on the resistor also affects the whole way the motor works.

When I start my motor, I start with a low value on the resistor. I now have a scope so I can see what is going on with the amount of pulses the motor is giving out. As the motor starts up it has low RPMs and there are actually more pulses out than the number of magnets passing by the coil. As the motor RPM increases the number of magnets that pass the coil catches up and or interfers with those extra pulses until I get to a point where one magnet pass over the coil produces one H pulse.

Now I can back off my variable resistor (increase the resistance). As I do this the mA output decreases but RPM can increase. But there is a point that if I introduce too much resistance I start to get a miscellaneous half h pulse out which produces say 1.3 pulses per magnet rotation. If I continue to increase the resistance I can get many many many more pulses out per manget rotation. Also at this point the RPM starts to drop off big time.

I believe that one has to also consider that the coils are a one to one transformer. So what happens on one side of the circuit affects the other (they are magnetically coupled). And in this way the voltage developed across the base resistor limits the voltage spike produced on the H wave side. I am talking about the voltage that would develop as a result of current moving in the direction of the D1 diode; this current when flowing will setup a potential in the base resistor and this potential will limit the voltage developed on the H wave side... the voltages must be equal because of the 1:1 magnetic coupling effect of the bifillar coil (which is the one to one transformer effect).

I am now thinking of a circuit that uses a optocoupler to fully electrically isolate the two windings inside of the coil. And in this way one could change or adjust the base resistor independent of the trigger coil electrical side of things. This would give more control so that you can get a good ampre to the base of the transistor but also this resistor value would not have anything to do with the H wave side of things, or it could be a different value.

I hope that this make some sort of sense, and I am interested to hear any comments.

If anyone is interested in the circuit I am thinking of I would be glad to post it just let me know.

Thanks.

[Shamus]

@BinzerBob: Unless I'm reading you wrong I don't think you need an optocoupler; just wind a separate trigger coil and you don't have to worry about transformer action/magnetic coupling. Though this introduces its own set of problems in the form of trigger coil placement.

@All: Regarding resistor values, what I see is that its main purpose is to control how long transistor stays on since it attenuates the amplitude of the voltage wave that comes in on the trigger wire. Lower resistance equals long on time for the transistor which eats more current; higher resistance equals shorter on time for the transistor which takes less current. At a certain point a high enough resistance will cause the circuit to go into self-oscillation. It's also interesting to note that the impedance on the back-end can also cause self-oscillation so impedance plays an important role here as well.

I don't exactly understand how the impedance works in this machine or how the self-oscillation works, but I'm working on it.

[Littleremnant]

Hey all,

Thanks for all the info on the resistance. On a single transistor setup I
suppose it would be as simple as putting two pots in tandom but no one
has answered the question yet - WHICH ONE GETS THE MORE resistance, the
one off the transistor, or the final one? I have 5 winds on each of my coils
as John does and four transistors. Do you set each transistor up the same
as with a single wound coil? I suppose you could put 8 pots on it to
tune it, but could you maybe take all of your transistors offline except one,
and tune just the one to the coil (as suggested above), and then hook them all back up with the same resistance? Don't know. If this sounds right please
comment. Sounds like others on here need the answer too.

When I run any of my coils with less resistance on the resistor off of the
transistor and more on the final resistor everything gets hot. As I add more
resistance to the first one and less on the last one coming out - things start
to cool off. WHAT DO I NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THIS? IS there anything set
in stone for the relationship between these two resistors????? Is there a
SET place for the LAST resistor to be set at???

Thanks for ALL of the comments!

[BinzerBob]

@BinzerBob: Unless I'm reading you wrong I don't think you need an optocoupler; just wind a separate trigger coil and you don't have to worry about transformer action/magnetic coupling. Though this introduces its own set of problems in the form of trigger coil placement.

@All: Regarding resistor values, what I see is that its main purpose is to control how long transistor stays on since it attenuates the amplitude of the voltage wave that comes in on the trigger wire. Lower resistance equals long on time for the transistor which eats more current; higher resistance equals shorter on time for the transistor which takes less current. At a certain point a high enough resistance will cause the circuit to go into self-oscillation. It's also interesting to note that the impedance on the back-end can also cause self-oscillation so impedance plays an important role here as well.

I don't exactly understand how the impedance works in this machine or how the self-oscillation works, but I'm working on it.

With regard to self oscillation... Yes this is what I have found too.

The resistor has something to do with the way the system works. The resistor controls the "on time and or the on current for the coil", but it also affects the circuit much in the same way that a Resistor would play in a LCR circuit (this is my guess anyway).

I modified my Rotor by adding 4 more magnets. Now the motor seems to start much better and it is interesting to note that so far I have found that the RPM of the machine is about the same at around the 2,000 RPM mark (that is where it likes to live). Now with the total of 8 magnets on a 5" diameter rotor I am getting more control and less of the stray h pulses (unless I back off the resistor way back into the 1.3 k ohm region).... At about 2 k ohm region I get self oscillation.

The impedance is basically the resistance of the circuit. The resistance elements include the inductor (our coil), a Capacitor (our battery), and our Resistor (this is the variable pot on the base of the transistor).

-The inductor has resistance called Inductive reactance = (2)(pie)(frequency)(L) please verify

-The Capacitor has a resistance called capacitive Reactance = -1/2*pie*f*C please verify

-our resistor has resistance independent of frequency

The Impedance is the total of the resistance of the circuit. But keep in mind that the reactance of the inductor and the capacitor are dependent on frequency (the speed of the motor). Also that the Capacitance and Inductive reactance are vector quantities and so to is the resistor value. I am not sure how to piece all of this together and I don't want to pretend that I do, just I want to throw out there that this circuit can be though of in terms of some old school electrical theories and know how.

When John talks about impedance he is likely talking about matching the battery impedance with the inductor. If the inductor and capacitor impedance are equal then the reactive components cancel one another... again I am not sure how this is beneficial or not, but I think that it is easier to set the system into resonance.

[Shamus]

One other thing to throw into the mix is that batteries act like a capacitor with a resistor in series, so it's not purely capacitive (I don't know if this is equivalent to capacitive reactance or not). I think when John talks about the impedance of the battery lowering with SSG charging he's talking about the 'imaginary' resistor in the battery going down in value.