Bedini SG

[dambit]

Hi Mark,

And your Charge battery was still just 12 volts?

I guess that I need to be careful about how high the charge battery gets, right?

As the potential will now be to try and charge up to 24 volts?

Thanks for all the info....

The past is the past, the future has yet to come, and I am right smack in the present....:-)

Tj

Hi Tj,

The charger will adapt itself to whatever the voltage of the charging battery is. The charging battery will always be at risk of overcharging because it is always seeing a 200 - 300V spike. The primary battery is only to trigger the transistors. You could run the machine with a 12V primary and 24V charging battery and the 24V battery will still overcharge if left on long enough.

Cheers,

Steve.

[tjnlsn255]

Thanks Steve....

Of course the spikes.... so a capacitor parallel to the battery should also be say 400 volts to handle the spikes?

What keeps the capacitor from charging past say 14 volts.... do I need a seperate circuit to discharge th cap?

Is that what a relay circuit can help with?

My 12 volt machine never charges the charge battery past 13 volts before the primary battery runs down but I am making a lot of improvements for better efficiency.....

Thank you for all the awsome insights........

Be happy.....

Tj

[dambit]

Couldn't comment on the cap. I have never used one in my solid state setups. The only time I do use one is to get an idea of how large the spikes are. For this I use a moderate sized 400V cap. 335V is the largest I have measured in this fashion.

Cheers,

Steve

[N O G]

Relay coils

Has anyone built a bedini using relay coils? I have several relay's from something that I was going to try but ended up not doing. I am thinking about making a small multicoil bedini using them. maybe out of some knex parts to keep it light weight.

Ive used relay coils ages ago and had some small results .The problem i found was there is to much coil resistance for the size of the coil ,unless you want to try charging very small batteries over long periods of time.

[Mark]

Tj

You dont NEED a cap but you can put one in as kind of a safety feature incase you take a lead off your charge battery by mistake or you want to run a cap dump set up. The charge battery itself will keep the cap at the charge battery voltage. Cap would only charge up higher if the charge battery was disconected. You can run 12 volts on one end and 24 volts on the other doesn't matter which way.

[tjnlsn255]

Thanks Mark.....

Is there a circuit for a cap dump that is not to complicated so that I can start out slowly...

If I disconnect the charge battery will the SSG work with just a cap on the charge side as long as I keep it inside its voltage rating?

I have a large 10,000 uf 300v cap to play with so far..... what can I do with it that is fun and will teach me more about caps....

If my SSG spikes are larger than 300v then I should not use this cap, is that correct?

I need to set up my scope and take a look at the spikes ......

Is there a document that explains the benefits of cap dumping? I have seen several people talk about but never really understood its benefits in regards to an SSG of course to keep it on topic......:-)

Be happy.....

Tj

[Mark]

Tj

That cap has alot of capacity and will take quite a long time to charge up to 300 volts. It would work fine but may have too much capacity. I dont believe that cap dumping will give you any noticeable gains when charging batteries. Have used SCR with a resistor and diode which is a simple cap dump set up but it seems to take longer to charge batteries. Take a look at this sight. Erwin's Work Shop Erwin gives a lot of great information with GREAT illustrations of SSG's, actual drawings of how the circuits are hooked up. Its a huge web site with may pages so make sure you look at most of it.

[Hoppy]

My view is that caps offer no improvement to charging. Best to stick with the vanilla / basic SG config but go multi-strand using a single spool. Cap pulse charging wastes energy during both charging and discharging cycles. Concentrate on getting impedances as low as possible by using thick cables from the charger to the battery bank. If using a power supply instead of a primary battery, make sure the supply is well overrated and use a big smoothing cap across the charger supply input terminals. I use a 10V / 50A good quality mains transformer and 47.000uF smoothing cap. Average current draw for my 16 strand solid state charger is 6 to 8 Amps but pulse currents can be a lot higher.

Hoppy

[tjnlsn255]

Thanks Mark!

Great web site.....

Be happy.....

Todd

[baroutologos]

Litzed vs simple bifilar coils

OK, i know that the many advanced systems of Bedini schematics dictate that coils should be made litzed (eg 5x18 AWG ) instead of the old plain bifilar one.

Why is that really? Explanations range from magnetic coupling to better radiant energy capturing. I am not discussing the trifilar setup with the third wire go to rectifier and cap. That is mandatory there.

I am speaking for the simple SGG. My personal experience so far with many variations, say that Litzed coils offer little if any advantage over bifilar ones. As for lowering impedance that, I think this is the same as making the bifilar coils with fewer turns.

Comments are welcome.

Regards,
Baroutologos

[Hoppy]

OK, i know that the many advanced systems of Bedini schematics dictate that coils should be made litzed (eg 5x18 AWG ) instead of the old plain bifilar one.

Why is that really? Explanations range from magnetic coupling to better radiant energy capturing. I am not discussing the trifilar setup with the third wire go to rectifier and cap. That is mandatory there.

I am speaking for the simple SGG. My personal experience so far with many variations, say that Litzed coils offer little if any advantage over bifilar ones. As for lowering impedance that, I think this is the same as making the bifilar coils with fewer turns.

Comments are welcome.

Regards,
Baroutologos

Hi Baroutologos

Litzed /twisted strands do not offer any real advantage at low frequency working but they do allow for a much neater wind onto a spool. This is particularly important when winding multi-strands onto a single large spool. By twisting strands into say quads, it allows single or multiple quads to be laid neatly. My 16 strand power coil is made up of 4 quads of 1mm (19swg) ECW with a seperate trigger winding laid under the quads. Trying to wind 16 single strands of 1mm ECW onto a spool will result in a messy uneven wind. With much thinner wire under 0.5mm this is not such a problem.

Using muli power strands either litzed or not, each driven with a transistor, is necessary to increase the power of an energsier / charger. This considerably lowers the impedance of the power winding as a whole.

Hoppy

[baroutologos]

More questions...

Thanks Hoppy for the promt reply. But my question about multiple windings remain.

Hi Baroutologos
Using muli power strands either litzed or not, each driven with a transistor, is necessary to increase the power of an energsier / charger.

Is not the same thing having 5 transistors in parallel all running a large wire as having 5 electrically isolated wires run each one by a transistor?

This considerably lowers the impedance of the power winding as a whole.

True, but, My view is that... impedance in electromagnets is a result of self-inductunce. You could always lower the inpedance by having fewer turns in a sigle wire. True or not?

Please if you have any differect view, respond and enlighten me

Regards,
Baroutologos

[Hoppy]

@ Baroutologos

Seperately driven power strands is the preferred method used by John Bedini to lower the DC resistance / impedance and gives better results than using a single thick power strand driven by transistors in parallel. Try it out both ways and compare results. Remember that we are dealing with Bedini stuff here.

For the more powerful energisers, John advocates driving each power transistor (MJL21194 recommended) with a base current that allows a collector current of at least 1 Amp when worked out using the specified beta current gain for the device. This works the transistor in the 'correct' portion of its curve. The transistors ideally need to be matched in gain. The total energy available at the output bus (where the output diode cathodes are commoned) will then be optimised and greater than using a single thick driven strand driven by multiple transistors with the equivalent power input.

The 'proof is in the pudding', so please 'don't shoot the messenger'.

Hoppy

[gmeast]

points vs ss

Hi all,

In one version of these systems it is shown a speed reducer and set of points for dumping the cap into a charge battery. Is there an advantage to this? Or rather, is there a compromise resulting from using solid state circuitry, instead, for simplicity sake?

I understand that building experiments involving allot of mechanism is less convenient or even impossible for some because of lack of facility.

Thanks,

Greg

[ABCStore]

I'd say, sepArate strands of wire create a "virtual impedance".

I've learned to question anything and everything John Bedini says in the "Energy from vacuum" series. Especially in #7 - cameraman keeps repeating "Right, right..." even to some obvious BS.
Other examples -
"virtual south triggers at 12.5 degrees" - why? no explanation
virtual south is not(!) in the middle of the two magnets - why?
two D-size batteries explanation without common ground doesn't make sense...
etc etc

ABC