Bedini Schoolgirl

[sebosfato]

Hello sebosfato, could I pick your brain again ?

If I wind four identical wires on the same core, series connect two and parallel connect the other two and switch between the two sets will that have the same effect as you are describing ?

Thanks

Oh yeah and what exactly do you mean by "time constant" does that mean that the discharge time is longer than the charge time but only considering the same energy transfer ? or something else. Please explain ?

Hello,

The time constant is given by L/R. So the lower the resistance and the greater the inductance the bigger is the time constant. If you have a 1Henrie coil witch have 1 ohm it will have a time constant of 1 second being for charge or discharge. What i meant is that if you push the magnet to spin with a coil that have one time constant and than short the field so as it discharge thru the other coil it would keep acting for longer time. I'm not so sure but seems to agree with what the keppe guys talk. I think the best way is to discharge the coil into a capacitor cause as it have a negative resistance the time constant will depend on more than just the resistance, but would certainly increase. Maybe a resistor in parallel with the capacitor ( a load ) could be driven...

Thinking beter in what i said regard the first question, i think that even with the same coil you can charge and discharge it with different time constants, by the example i gave of discharging the coil into a capacitor instead of just shorting it.

Does it sound for you too? for me it makes some sense, but i repeat this is only my best guess regarding it, i can be very wrong or right.

I hope to be able to determine this soon, when i have some more time for doing this tests. If i succeed getting into the university i will have nice oscilloscopes to play with... Thats why for the next weeks i need to study like a mad... The final exam will be on 9-10-11 january...

Sorry for the delay for the answer

[Magneticitist]

@ Aaron. thanks for the thread. i have been a bedini-head for a while, but one question still roams my mind even now regarding the "schoolgirl".

from what I have read, and I cant even remember where I read it, but the original model made by the actual "schoolgirl" was a similar setup to the posted diagrams, but it ran at around 5000RPM for about a week, fully charging another 9v, and at the end of running time the run 9v was still just about fully charged?

i can believe the 9v running a week and still having juice left part, that has been easy for me to achieve at this point, but its the going at 5000RPMs im having trouble with lol... no way i've ever come close to spinning a skate wheel that fast from a 9v for a week.

were you able to achieve those types of results from any of your replications?
thanks.

[Joen2010]

I was looking at different materials to make decent rotor before, even white cutting board from Walmart. You can laminate (glue) couple together, drill holes for round ceramic magnets and use roller skate bearings (clean grease). You can mount you coil on the side instead of circumference. Some of those bearings for rollerskates are pretty good. I found set on eBay once for 12$. My first coils were done with wire salvaged fro discarded TV's - degaussing coil running around the tube. Large screens have more wire.

Good luck with your project


V

Hello again,

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I have my SSG up and running now. Thanks to your direction, I was able to resolve my core problems by going to an automobile brake shop and getting some of the metal grindings from their brake drum and disk brake grinding machine. It's not ferite but it sure acts like it! I mixed it with some fiber glass epoxy and it came out great. It is happily running in the next room as I write this. So far everything is cool. Nothing is getting hot. The resistence is set at the mid range of what it should be. And it seems to be charging a battery ok. My next step is to find my analog amp meter and find a sweet spot.

Thanks for helping me get this far.


Joen2010

[blackchisel97]

Hello again,

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I have my SSG up and running now. Thanks to your direction, I was able to resolve my core problems by going to an automobile brake shop and getting some of the metal grindings from their brake drum and disk brake grinding machine. It's not ferite but it sure acts like it! I mixed it with some fiber glass epoxy and it came out great. It is happily running in the next room as I write this. So far everything is cool. Nothing is getting hot. The resistence is set at the mid range of what it should be. And it seems to be charging a battery ok. My next step is to find my analog amp meter and find a sweet spot.

Thanks for helping me get this far.


Joen2010

I'm glad it did work for you. As far as finding sweet spot; check one of my youtube vid's - tuning SSG with LED strobe light. As you'll see it is just as reliable as a scope reading. All you'll need is 200 -300Ohm resistor and LED. Another way; you can put small grain of wheat bulb (12V 100mA or similar) in series with pot. As you probably know filament resistance changes with amount of current so this tiny bulb will act as a "smart" indicator that there is too much current going to the base of the transistor. With small SSG the bulb should glow only. Also, observe your wheel while you increase resistance of your pot. You'll notice your wheel starting to accelerate in certain point and spin much faster. Just back a bit towards lower resistance and you should be near sweet spot. Wheel may have more than one but this first one should be good. Sweet spot is the highest speed at lowest input current so we don't aim for the lowest draw nor the highest rpm.


Vtech

[Farmhand]

Hello Sebosfato,

Does it sound for you too? for me it makes some sense, but i repeat this is only my best guess regarding it, i can be very wrong or right.

Yes that does make sense to me somehow, even though I lack the words to put with my thoughts about these complex matters, I get visualisations but they are not labeled. I always watch for your posts for these perplexing concepts.

I hope to be able to determine this soon, when i have some more time for doing this tests. If i succeed getting into the university i will have nice oscilloscopes to play with... Thats why for the next weeks i need to study like a mad... The final exam will be on 9-10-11 january...

Good luck with your exams Sebosfato. We can all benifit from your learnings i'm sure.

Rgds

[Itsu]

Testing

Hi guys, first of all, "happy holidays" to you all.

I am charging / discharging 2 identical batteries the past week to check on the performance of my Bedini.

I notice that my "battery under charge" will no go above the 13V.
Maximum will be 12.9V and after settling, it backs off to 12.79V or so.

I don't think i will be able to charge / discharge the both batteries one after the other much longer, as they both seem to drain slowly.

I was wondering if that is because of the output pulse being only 3,36V pp.

I can adjust this output pulse to about 11.4V pp, but am drawing much more input current then (275mA).

So the question is what could be the reason of this reluctance of the output to charge the charging battery above 13V?
Could this be caused by the output pulse being so low (3.36V pp)? Or is the (invisible) radiant energy to blame for :-) ?

The video of this all is to be seen here: YouTube - Bedini 3.avi

Many thanks for your inputs, regards Itsu.

[Bill H]

Hope you had a good Holiday!
A couple of points I will make here.
1st. It sounds to me like you are rotating your batteies between "charge" and "run" positions. This cannot be done. You must conventionally charge your run battery between runs. Mark them and never rotate. There are other options but we will not get into that now. The radiant charge your charge battery receives is not compatible with pulse motors, which the bedini motor is.
2nd. Your scope pattern looks great. Adjusting your resistance for better charging may be an option but you really should do tests at each setting to see if it really is an improvement. Faster charging comes with faster primary battery drain, you need to find the sweet spot, usually somewhere near fastest rpm for lowest current draw. I am not sure about the spike you are seeing on the outside of your diodes, but since it changes so fast with your resistance adjustments I would have to say it is related to your source battery load.
Hope I have been of help.
Bill H.

[Joen2010]

I'm glad it did work for you. As far as finding sweet spot; check one of my youtube vid's - tuning SSG with LED strobe light. As you'll see it is just as reliable as a scope reading. All you'll need is 200 -300Ohm resistor and LED. Another way; you can put small grain of wheat bulb (12V 100mA or similar) in series with pot. As you probably know filament resistance changes with amount of current so this tiny bulb will act as a "smart" indicator that there is too much current going to the base of the transistor. With small SSG the bulb should glow only. Also, observe your wheel while you increase resistance of your pot. You'll notice your wheel starting to accelerate in certain point and spin much faster. Just back a bit towards lower resistance and you should be near sweet spot. Wheel may have more than one but this first one should be good. Sweet spot is the highest speed at lowest input current so we don't aim for the lowest draw nor the highest rpm.


Vtech

Hello again,

I tried your led strobe idea and it worked quite well. It is running at about 1600 rpm (3 magnet roller skate wheel & bearing) but the resistance on the pot was only 60 ohms. Does that sound right?

Thanks for essentially spoon feeding me through this.

Joen2010

[Itsu]

Thanks

Hi Bill, thanks for your help, its much appreciated.

I must of have misunderstood this "charge/run" battery swap concept.

I indeed read in the docu that you should use "normal charging" for the source battery, and that the "gain" is in the charging of the (multiple) "charge battery(s)".

I will put up a new test schedule, and see if that improve the charge voltage.

Regards Itsu

[Joen2010]

Hope you had a good Holiday!
A couple of points I will make here.
1st. It sounds to me like you are rotating your batteies between "charge" and "run" positions. This cannot be done. You must conventionally charge your run battery between runs. Mark them and never rotate. There are other options but we will not get into that now. The radiant charge your charge battery receives is not compatible with pulse motors, which the bedini motor is.
Bill H.

In your reply to ITSU you say that the power comming out of a monopole charged battery is not compatable with the monopole motor. Is there a way to change it so that it is? If not then that shoots the whole reason for doing this doesn't it?

What am I missing? does anyone out there have an answer or is that a topic for an advansed group?

joen2010

[dR-Green]

Hello, I'd just like to thank everyone who contributed to this discussion and shared their problems and solutions and experiments.

I just got my first SSG running 3 weeks ago. It didn't seem to want to run for very long the first few tries, I could hear it running but then it just ran out of power and came to a stop, so after concentrating on listening so hard for a while I begun to wonder whether I was just imagining it or not. Anyway, after some fiddling (don't ask me what, I did nothing in particular just poked around with my fingers) {[edit] I had a 430 ohm resistor but it preferred the 680, also what I believed to be 'low' on the potentiometer was in fact 'high'} and readjusting the distance of the coil from the magnets, it started keeping itself going for longer periods each time, although it wasn't able to increase its own speed. I believe this was due to using 8 x AA batteries in an unheated shed when the temperature outside was about -5 Celsius, so the batteries just weren't able to power it. After taking it into the (warmer) house, it seemed to come to life.

I since realised I wound the coil the wrong way and I had a south pole at the top, because I had not considered the electro magnet aspect of the thing until after I had made it. I swapped the wires, and what was a slightly noisy and lukewarm coil became quiet and cool. The maximum draw is 200mA @ 680 ohms and minimum is about 45mA if I remember correctly @ 1,680 ohms. It successfully charges batteries, which I have been using to charge/power my wind-up LED lantern via the 12v car adaptor and light the room. I used 2500mAh to charge 4.5Ah, then used the 4.5Ah bank to charge a 9Ah bank. But I haven't begun with the load tests on these bigger lead-acid batteries yet.

All is well so far, except it seems I need to get an inverter and a transformer so I can run the SSG from batteries I charged through the SSG. I already have plans for future projects, and I'm just about to finish putting together a contraption I devised for making/litzing coils. The first coil was all twisted by hand and was not a pleasant experience, it seemed easier in my head than when it came to actually doing it So this contraption will allow me to put up to 6 wire spools to be twisted together (I won't be using 6, it's just easier to build that way than making it 5) by turning one handle, and then another handle to wind them in onto the coil spool. Or so I hope it will work.

A word on the inverter, does anyone know if the 500mA USB output on this would be suitable to power the SSG? I mean, does it go through a transformer or is it direct from the battery?

75W Mini Invertor with USB Charging Socket : InCar Power Invertors : Maplin

Any answers on that would be appreciated. [edit] Never mind... I wasn't paying attention:

"DC 5V USB port rated at 500mA on the side for charging additional devices"

Thanks again to everyone

[Bill H]

In your reply to ITSU you say that the power comming out of a monopole charged battery is not compatable with the monopole motor. Is there a way to change it so that it is? If not then that shoots the whole reason for doing this doesn't it?

What am I missing? does anyone out there have an answer or is that a topic for an advansed group?

joen2010

Sorry Joen2010 I was away from this thread for a while and missed your post.
Yes there are circuits available that will allow you to swap batteries. The easiest would be a simple cap pulser circuit, but in my opinion the circuit that works the best is John Bedini's "Ground tied battery rotator circuit" I am pretty sure that is what it was called, I forget where i found the schematic but I used it with out the battery rotator portion. While running this circuit I also added an extra generator coil and FWBR and fed this to a 3rd battery bank. I was very impressed with the results...it was well worth the work.
Good luck
Bill H.

[dR-Green]

A few pics of the construction process of my SSG including my highly advanced coil twisting method And the completed (or close enough) device. The bits of electrical tape at the back are to try and minimise the noise of the bearings being amplified by the wood, and the tape on the shaft is to stop it from slipping forward or back because I haven't got round to putting a thread and nut to hold it in place. The coil had to be taped up good, because literally on the final turn I heard a big CRACK, which was one end of the home made spool coming loose, which luckily I managed to hold in place without it unravelling everywhere before getting the tape on there.

The coil is 26 SWG and 24 SWG wires, approx 780-884 turns (I counted 52 turns on the first layer, multiplied by either 15 or 17 layers because I got carried away and forgot to mark the completion of a layer and ended up with an even number of counts and an odd number of layers, so it's either 15 or 17). 6cm diameter x 7.5cm length coil made out of 12mm thick MDF, with 20mm diameter PVC conduit for the centre. Currently using 5 magnets on the rotor, using standard components and resistor/pot values etc, 1.6mm copper coated welding rods for the coil core. Once the whole thing was up and running I reassembled it adding more wires and the connector blocks to have an "Input" and "Output" section to make it a bit tidier and easier to hook up.

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[dR-Green]

Two questions about the SSG if I may...

1. Is it safe to connect non-rechargeable batteries to be charged? I've only seen one person mention doing this so I'd like to try and verify that.

2. Is it possible to run a load off the charging batteries while the SSG is running?

I'm all for experimenting and all, but if someone out there has already blown things up then if at all possible I would prefer not to find out the same way

Thank you.

[blackchisel97]

2 questions-2 answers

Two questions about the SSG if I may...

1. Is it safe to connect non-rechargeable batteries to be charged? I've only seen one person mention doing this so I'd like to try and verify that.

2. Is it possible to run a load off the charging batteries while the SSG is running?

I'm all for experimenting and all, but if someone out there has already blown things up then if at all possible I would prefer not to find out the same way

Thank you.

1. yes, I have done it however, you have to remember that non nonchargeables weren't design for such. They will pop open when charging pulse is too strong due to the compressed gas which has no other way to escape. I was able to recharge alkaline AA's with my small SSG (you can actually see in one of my utube video clips) I was able to recharge them up to 6-8 times and use in toothbrush. I later added full bridge on the output instead of single diode.
2.Not recommended. Imagine ions inside your battery moving in one direction while charging and opposite when powering a load. Now, what would happen if you try to do both at the same time?


Vtech