Bedini Schoolgirl

[Aaron]

resistance

Hi Shamus,

On John's coils, I believe he uses about 100 feet per wire.

For the pots, you can put one in line with a resistor. Hook a scope to it. When you slowly start turning your wheel you might see 4 spikes per pulse...when up to speed you only want to see 1 spike per pulse...turn the pot until you only get 1, measure the total resistance, then replace with fixed resistor of the closest value to the tuned resistance. If you don't have a scope, you can use a radio or something else to hear or see the spikes.

1374 is quite high and if you hear noise from the coil, it is self oscillating...definitely needs less.

Also, can tune the circuits with a bulb in line with the resistor. I'll find reference for this. Also, can put 90v neon bulb across the collector and emitter as protection.

[Kevin]

This is exciting!

Wow, for years the only person I had to talk to about the exciting things I was discovering while building and experimenting with with the BSG was Aaron....

oh, yes, there were those that said, "Hey can you build one for me to power my house", but they were not the least bit interested in building one themselves and understanding what all was going on.

Now with Shamus, amigo and others, it is fun to share in what we are/have learned!

Shamus, I too could hear the harmonic resonance while the wheel was standing still. Since I had a pot in my circuit I could change the pitch of the sound by just turning it. However, I was never able to charge a battery without the wheel spinning.

Another thing that I tried was to hook up a little bicycle generator to try and capture some of the mechanical energy. I was able to do that, however, the generator put a load on the wheel causing it to draw more energy from the source battery. Thus my net gain did not improve at all.

I do believe on my next generation it will be large enough (heavy enough) that I should be able to capture some of the mechanical energy and experience a net gain. However, that is yet to be proven or dis proven.

Amigo, please post your pics and experiences!

A few other misc. notes:

I have almost always used the neon bulbs to protect the circuits. The few times I did not I burned up the transistors.

I have a BK Precision Model 600 Battery Capacitance Analyzer that I have used to measure energy input into batteries that I have charged. It gives one a general idea on what kind of "charge" you are putting into a battery. However, the best way is to actually use the battery and measure the energy being used over a period of time (real-world situations).

B&K Precision - PDF Viewer

I have also experimented with using 24 volt input....I did not achieve as high a COP rating with 24 volts as 12 volts.

I have had some critics say that my little unit was picking up radiant energy from the electricity in the walls and ceilings...that if the electricity went off, I would not be able to put more energy into the batteries that I was charging than I was taking out of the source battery. Soooo, at the time I was living in a remote area on the island of Maui. I went up into the jungle (about a kilometer from the nearest structure, overhead or underground wire, etc. The unit worked exactly the same. Maybe 1 kilometer is not far enough away, but I did not want to hike any further through the jungle!

My overriding motivation in all this is to be able to generate electricity without having to have an external fuel source that I was dependent on others for. So, I have not spent near as much time understanding all the minutiae as I have spent my time experimenting, tuning, refining to get the most amount of energy stored in my batteries for the amount spent running the charger.

My best rendition so far can consistently produce 1.9 amps output for every 1 am input.

Oh! Another thing! The longer you charge a battery with these units the more the better the battery works! Aaron can expand further on this, it is referred to as conditioning the battery. Bottom line-in real world applications: Once you have charged and discharged a battery for several weeks (or longer) using this charger, the more energy the battery will store per amp expended to charge it!

Shamus, I hear you about spending an hour here and there to work on my next rendition. I sat down and looked at the plans again. Whew...32 circuits, 8 coils....I really do not want to do all soldering for those circuit boards. I don't mind winding the coils as much, but I am going to find someone to do the soldering for me.

[amigo]

Hi Shamus,
For the pots, you can put one in line with a resistor. Hook a scope to it. When you slowly start turning your wheel you might see 4 spikes per pulse...when up to speed you only want to see 1 spike per pulse...turn the pot until you only get 1, measure the total resistance, then replace with fixed resistor of the closest value to the tuned resistance. If you don't have a scope, you can use a radio or something else to hear or see the spikes..

My setup has a 100 ohm and 1k rheostat in the base, NE-2 (EC), 1N914 (EB), 1N4005 on the output from collector (when second battery is connected).
Coil probably has around 450 winds 26/24AWG with usual 1/16" copper coated rods (R45 not R60 though it shouldn't matter, that quality only applies to welding application)
In the source battery I use 8x1.2V NiMh 2300mAh or a 12V 1.2 Ah gel battery.

I guess you've just answered one of my questions above, I have been seeing more than one trigger per cycle which sort of baffled me? I know JB is talking about the "h" waveform and I have seen it on my scope from time to time, but it is always preceded by couple of more spikes. Most I could get it is one or two spikes and an "h".

What bugs me even more is that I get quite different waveforms depending on the batteries I use. I'm attaching some examples...

First scope photo shows just a motor setup (no second battery) while the second one has a second battery in (don't mind the noise in the waveform, comes from the AC adapter scope is hooked up to).

When I wind the rheostat to what I think is over 1k resistance, I eventually reach self-oscillation point, but the waveform changes as well and becomes more uniform, with consistent spikes, sometimes as large as 200V.

I think my disc/magnet assembly needs to be reworked, I did not have bearing assemblies or an axle, so I used bearings from a broken CD-ROM unit and as a result the disc with magnets is suspended above the coil, held by the aluminium bar across.

[amigo]

Here's what I also wonder and if it sounds newbieish - it is, should the neon bulb turn on as you wind the pot towards the higher resistance on the base circuit?

I have tried different combos, things like 10 ohm resistor and 25 ohm rheostat as well as 100 ohm resistor and 1 K rheostat, but I noticed that there's a threshold when the NE-2 lights up and starts pulsing at some low resistance and then it just gets brighter and pulsing starts changing into constant light.

I also forgot to note that my coil in the photo there is wound the opposite way (I'm left-handed and I blame this right-hander's world for making me do so ) but it still appears to be working.

Need I say that I'm glad that there's at least three more people here who post on a daily basis keeping our little adventure going. I know charging batteries and proving it works is fun, but perhaps we could do something more practical with this, applicable to our daily lives.

Practical alternative energy is not really my primary field of interest, though I have been following it for years now, at least the theoretical part.
Reason I wanted to try JB's motor was because it produces radiant energy and I'd like to use it as a source in another experiment...

Should I elaborate on that here or start another thread elsewhere on this board? I would like to get some feedback from people with more experience in this than myself, so I do not go chasing "windmills" for no reason, and I do have your attention here.

[Aaron]

Amigo's SG

Hi Amigo,

Yes, when in self oscillation, the off on is so fast that the potential is compressed in time so you can get some very high voltage spikes.

You may find the wheel gets faster with a plastic bar instead of aluminum. As the magnets pass the aluminum bar, they induce counter currents in the aluminum that repel and probably slow the rotor slightly. It is ok if the magnets are embedded in an aluminum rotor turning with the magnets but very different from a part of the frame that is aluminum.

If the neon doesn't light that is ok, if it does light that is ok too. Think of the neon as an overshoot gap where if the voltage is too high and could fry the transistor, it will just be partly consumed and diverted by the neon. Like Kevin said, has fried some transistors without. He was using some more heavy duty multi coil setups compared to these smaller versions so becomes more necessary but good to get a feel for what they do.

Feel free to start a new thread on the project you want to apply radiant energy to.

[amigo]

Hello again,

Well, I managed to improve my contraption by several levels of magnitude.

I have moved the shaft to horizontal position, got real bearing assemblies, and changed my rotor to be more sturdy (four clear plastic discs from blank CD-R cases glued together ), as well as put more powerful magnets (Electronics Goldmine G16370, $0.40 each) which I found to be one of the key elements. My older smaller magnets (see pictures above) did not seem sufficient enough - with the new ones rotor requires just a gentle push to start.

I still think my coil is wound in a wrong way (damn you right-handers World) so it might have to unwind and wind again (sigh). Though it still works so what gives?

I've hooked a mA meter to the circuit and a 10 ohm resistor to the secondary/charging output, so I can fine tune the rheostat and transistor base voltage to lowest current usage from the primary.
Amazingly enough this assembly can draw as low as 50mA (or even less) which with the 8x1.2V 2300mAh batteries I use to test with means I can run hours/days?

This has pretty much encouraged me (by a number of folds) to proceed into next stages and acquire a more serious quantity of magnet wire and wind more coils

[adam ant]

hey amigo, your setup looks really good. i havnt yet started to build this stuff yet, im still gathering data, and resources before i begin.

with having a coil situated only on one side of your rotor, do you experience an unbalanced rotation? by that i mean is there unequal stress(on your bearings) on one side due to the electromagnetic "pressure" from your coil?

thanks-

bryan

[amigo]

hey amigo, your setup looks really good. i havnt yet started to build this stuff yet, im still gathering data, and resources before i begin.

with having a coil situated only on one side of your rotor, do you experience an unbalanced rotation? by that i mean is there unequal stress(on your bearings) on one side due to the electromagnetic "pressure" from your coil?

thanks-

bryan

Hi Bryan

I think fabrication in home environment to begin with is a nightmare. I live in a high-rise apartment building so you can imagine a limited amount of woodwork and metalwork one can do.

Now, my rotor appears unbalanced as it is, when I was gluing plastic discs together I think I put too much glue in a layer on one side. Then, because I mounted two bearings on the sides of the rotor and did not have a proper mounting points the whole thing seems to be off axis slightly (heck I'm lucky it spins without too much wobble).

I do not have means to measure any stress except to visually discern that there is some drag happening. I think the better setup is the roller skate wheel one where gravity aids the process.

I suggest you start somewhere, see what kind of materials you can gather and build your first prototype. Finding the right parts sometimes proves to be a real pain - not everyone has a machine shop available to them. Besides, your SSG can't look worse than my first one

From there you will realize mistakes and correct them on your own pretty fast. I was amazed myself with ideas I came up to fix things after the first trial run, even though I had to scourge for parts and come up with all kinds of ways to supplement the lack of real machined components.

[adam ant]

ive never tried machining before, but one of my main hobbies is woodworking.
building the housing wouldnt be the problem, just gathering the circuit materials. i currently own a pets tore that sucks the life out of me, with 14 hours+ per day 6 days a week, plus sundays at auctions, seminars, family gatherings, and finally home maintenance, my hands are full. (not to mention my consortium group)

im sure i have all of the materials in my shop now, but i havnt even been down there in almost 2 years.

you could always use a Lazy Susan plate for your rotor. you can buy them brand new for less than 7$ from Rockler or maybe even SEARS.. (not sure where you live). it consists of two metallic plates with roller bearings in between. they are also used for mounting pivoting stools, VERY sturdy, and prettty smooth travel. or if you have an old stool, you could take it off of that. (i always see neighbors throwing those out)

you can measure the degree of tilt with a simple method. run your machine, then measure the gap of the rotor to the closest flat surface. repeat this for your other side. draw it out on paper, connect the dots and use a compass to find your degree of error.

it looks to me if you put a second coil on the other side, it would balance everything out.

this sunday i will go down and blow the dust off everything, and see if i cant start on this.

-b

[Kevin]

I built several different units...one with a roller blade wheel, another with plastic, even one out of wood. The roller blade wheel was too small, the plastic and wood I could not get balanced (no machine shop).

I finally broke down and went to walmart and bought a child's bicycle and used the front wheel off of it. That worked best for me. I have over 27,000,000 revolutions on it and the bearing are still good - just kept them well greased.

[adam ant]

thats a great idea, probably cheaper in the long run also i imagine.


i cant wait until i can get back into my shop. i actually found my multi-meter, a few AC motors, wire and a ton of Neo magnets.

you know, the one bad thing about the internet is the distance away from everyone. would be nice to walk over to anothers shop and ask questions and actually point to the problem. it would be easier to work together as well. one person builds the housings, one winds the coils, etc. would be a lot more efficient.

-b

[amigo]

...
I have over 27,000,000 revolutions on it and the bearing are still good - just kept them well greased.

LOL, how did you figure that number out, don't tell me you sat there and counted?

[amigo]

...
you know, the one bad thing about the internet is the distance away from everyone. would be nice to walk over to anothers shop and ask questions and actually point to the problem. it would be easier to work together as well. one person builds the housings, one winds the coils, etc. would be a lot more efficient.

-b

Now that would be truly fantastic if only we did not have the distance separating all of us. I often thought about seeking people who are doing similar things in my area, but I'm not sure where to look and posting a public call on the Web might draw un-necessary attention

I guess the best I can do is go visit David Hamel who's probably two or so hours away by car, though I'd still have to get a hold of him first and see if he still accepts visitors...

[adam ant]

LOL, how did you figure that number out, don't tell me you sat there and counted?

i bet he used a tachometer and figured the revolutions per hour, then multiplied that by an estimated average hour per day usage, multiple by months, years etc.

if he timed his RPM's at 300 all he would need to do is measure the first minute. multiply 300 times lets say 60 minutes for RPH per day = 18,000RPH times lets say 8 hours = 144,000RPD
and if he did this every day 144,000* 364 = 52,416,000
and with his revolutions 52,416,000/27,000,000= 1.94years.

rough guess.

[Kevin]

i bet he used a tachometer and figured the revolutions per hour, then multiplied that by an estimated average hour per day usage, multiple by months, years etc.

if he timed his RPM's at 3,000 all he would need to do is measure the first minute. multiply 3,000 times lets say 8 hours per day = 24,000 RPD
and if he did this every day 24,000 * 364 = 8,736,000
and with his revolutions 24,000,000/8,726,000 = 3.09 years.

rough guess.

Adam,

Yes, that is how I came to that estimate of 27,000,000.

I have a tachometer. The best tuning I did with my main unit put it right at 300 rpm.

300 rpm x 60 minutes = 18,000 rphour

I only stop the unit for a few minutes at a time to make measurements, change batteries, etc.

and I have well over 1000 hours documented, and probably at least another 500 hours undocumented testing. (I ran it pretty much 24 hours a day for many months, only stopping it to work on it)

1500 x 18,000 (rph) = 27,000,000 total revolutions. As I am typing this I realize that is a the low side estimate, because I have hundreds of hours that I was running up at over 500 rpm, but did not stay there because the unit did not give me as much net gain as it did at the lower rpm.