Bedini Solid State Oscillators

[theremart]

Some more thought to my last test.

It seems I did not really test the SS properly the last time in my chart. I did not charge the battery up to the same 14V resting voltage it was charged with the neo SSG.

I did note that after I put these batteries back on the solar charger after being on the SS they went up to a much higher voltage then when they had before. They normally stay at about 12.8 - 12.96 Today they shot up to about 14V and a resting of 13.2.

I am now testing my 100 + amp hour batteries with the solid state charger...

[theremart]

Arg.

Hi Ewhaz,

The transistor part number in the book is wrong and should be BD243C, another mistake is pin 4 and 5 of the opto, the connections are inverted.
I have tried running the oscillator from a 555 instead of the trigger wire, it works too, but for every freq you are tuning to you have to readjust the duty cycle to get the best signal for that freq, finally I found that the trigger winding does this automatically and even better , so I went back to the winding.

regards,
Mario

This is soooo True, even on the corrected diagram pins 4 an 5 are inverted. (going back and re-reading the old posts )

[theremart]

Neos on the SS

I built the Solid State oscillator several months ago. I learned 4 things that might be of interest to some of you. I got better results from the oscillator when I switched to Silver Coated Wire, I think I used 20G or 22G wire. I found that when using a Magnetite core the output was stronger and I used less input energy. The final comment is that in order for it to start oscillating I had to remove one of the 2 magnets and gently drop it on one end of the core to start the oscillating. I used Neodymium magnets on each end with the orientation the same as if the magnets were attracted to each other and the core in the middle. I fingered this out when my core started to self oscillate when I was using it on the motor with the silver coated wire and the wheel was not turning. I have not used this since I started using the same idea on a triode and was getting better results with that. I am still using the Magnetite for my triode core.


Karl

I found the frequency slightly went faster when I had neos on one end of the SS...

I also have Magnetite core, have not tried the welding rods, because I glued the magnetite in when I was using a wheel.

I am also using 20 guage wire, much more wire than what is called for... a full spool.

[peter4you]

I've found now that the NiMh batteries don't keep the charge well, but the Li-Io batteries do.--I'm using 2 fans in parallel now, which works well (will try using more fans and experiment with mixed series- and paprallel connections).

I'm testing right now how it works, if I connect a stepup converter between the running battery and the Bedini circuit (either before the circuit or after it.--I will report how it works and if it does anything to improve the setup).

I'm also using a stepup converter when drawing power from the charged battery, when I'm running gadgeds like a mp3 player or a 1W mini stereo amp (with two 3,7V Li-Io batteries in series I get appr. 7,5V of running power that way.--The power supply is more stable and the batteries last longer than without a stepup converter.--I do get appr. 6,5V via the stepup converter just using one 3,7V Li-Io battery, but the battery doen't last long and a mp3 player connented to the battery makes a funny noise.-The stepup converter circuit stays cold and functioning).

Maybe the hints will help.--Keep on fiddling

[Tarcil]

Hello to all!

This is my first post, and I'd like to say how refreshing it was to discover this forum. I have already learned a great deal and hope to contribute something in return.

I recently got my replication of the Bedini SS running. I followed the circuit diagram on p42 of Free Energy Generation, with reference to p46 for component values. On the output side, I'm using a neon bulb with SCR (TYN1006) to discharge the output capacitor (4.7uF, 250V) into a resistive load (40W incandescent).

One difference with my circuit is that I was unable to find the BD243C transistor, so I used a TIP41C instead. The specs for this device are similar (NPN type, 100V, 1A) and it seems to be working fine.

My coil is trifilar wound, 450 turns of 22 ga magnet wire, laid side-by-side. This type of coil has three identical windings: one is the primary, another is used to trigger the transistor, and the third collects output energy, which is passed through a high-voltage rectifier into the output capacitor.

The system runs in two modes: with an open-air coil, and with a steel core comprised of several common nails bundled together. The power supply is an AC wall transformer, fed through a low voltage rectifier with a capacitor (4.7uF) to smooth out ripples. More about the power supply in a few minutes.

Breadboard construction was used throughout, with the large parts screwed into a wood base for stability. Happily, the circuit started working on the first try. (That is, after I got the resistors wired correctly ;-) The little neon bulb flashes at a perceptible rate, and the incandescent load warms to the touch.

== Performance Data ==

Using the air core, the primary coil oscillates at 5.6 KHz, with a pulse width of 32 uS. The output cap discharges to load at 59 Hz, with one stair step visible.

Using the steel core, the primary coil oscillates at 3.6 KHz, with a pulse width of 40 uS. The output cap discharges to load at 40 Hz, with two stair steps visible.

I have a couple of analog meters on the power supply (after the rectifier). With the air core, the circuit draws 115mA at 11V DC. With the steel core, current increases slightly to about 122mA at 11V DC.

== Questions ==

1. I have become rather confused about the power supply. Even with the capacitor, the supply is noisy with lots of spikes up to about 20V. The circuit seems to thrive on the noise. I spent quite a while trying to replace the the AC supply with a stable, bench type DC supply. But I could not get the primary to oscillate with the DC supply. Any ideas?

2. The little neon bulb should trigger the SCR when it sees about 90 volts. But the scope only reads about 10 volts. Why?

3. I find the stair steps on the charging waveform quite remarkable. With adjustments to the circuit, I have seen as many as four steps. Can anyone explain what they represent?

And finally,

4. How can I improve this circuit?

Any comments or suggestions would be most welcome.

Thanks!

[theremart]

Welcome new SS

Welcome to the forum Tarcil,

I also if you have have just completed the SS on page 46 of FEG. I am to new at this to give you any certain direction, I feel the same way, ok I have made this now what does a good running tuned one look like? I guess you have the wave forms that are in the book, I have attempted to drive this at 24V, and got fantastic charging rate, however my opto got VERY hot. So I am in process of finding a way around that.


I will give you what another forum member has given me as he was looking thru the Bedini forums... Attached is a scope shot, and here is Bedini's coments on it.


"
Post-
I have made my first solid state charger, using the schematic from page 46 of the FEG book. I have been able to resurrect 2 old deep cycle batteries so far that where beaten up pretty bad in a solar system (bulging, high impedance etc.) I used a microchip to turn on the opto coupler instead of the 555 chip because I thought I might be able to get better performance by using a higher duty cycle than the 50/50 from a 555. I have not found a setting yet that works better than 50/50. Here are the specs:
Tri-filar wound
450 turns Awg #23 copper magnet wire
3/4" R60 welding rod core
913hz oscillations on cap
cap dump every 200ms
peak voltage on cap 270v
In the book (pg 109) it says the oscillator should be at 25Khz. Mine doesn't get anywhere near that, only 914hz. I wonder if anyone else has had one run that fast.

John Bedini’s Answer

You did great, the waveforms are correct. for the Iron core it's working fine, air core is next 2.5 k to 25 Khz. Measure the radiant current and wave form by using a coil to pass the discharge wire through. be very careful if you get it up in power as it is close to your nerve impulses. The stair step looks just like Beardens analogy. Great work keeps going. That waveform can do wonders not fully explored yet. That is Tesla's time wave that he talked about. Great scope shots. Thanks for posting this. You can bias the core with a week magnet, power will increase in only one direction try it you will see. you can control the Bloch wall of the coil, additive energy sucked from the magnet.

"

This let me have a idea that the stair step was right, but I don't know how to advise you more from here as I am still digging and playing.


ahh only for 24V SS

and Welcome

[theremart]

Moving up to 24V

Hi,

Any suggestions for modification of the FEG to go to 24V? The opto copuler got too warm for me, but oh, I love how this charges...

Thanks!

[Tarcil]

Thanks for the post, theremart. That's good info.

At this point I suspect that the replacement transistor is not working out. I have some BD243Cs on order from Mouser. If that solves the problem, I'll study the data sheets and report back.

Any suggestions for modification of the FEG to go to 24V? The opto copuler got too warm for me, but oh, I love how this charges...

I'm new at this, but... maybe you could try putting a resistor in series with the output of the optocoupler. That should cut down on the current without affecting the timing.

Cheers!

[theremart]

Had an idea today..

Has anyone ever taken an ignition coil and used it on the standard Solid State circuit found in the FEG book or used Aarons?

Just considered trying this, and wanted to know how crazy an idea it is.

[cowboyrx]

Several questions

Hello all,

I have several questions regarding the solid state version and have attached a schematic I found online. Please help:
1. Is this a complete and accurate circuit? Are the pins 4 & 5 on H11D1 correct or interchanged?
a. Are all resistors 1/4 watt?
b. Are all 3 windings on trifilar 23 gauge similar to magnet wire? Someone mentioned using 26 gauge for one of the primary windings, is that better?
c. What is the core material and dimensions? I have a 3/8" diameter ferrite rod of 10" length.
d. 1N4007 physically looks like a diode with 2 ends, do I need 4 of them to make the full bridge rectifier as shown right of the coil?
e. What is the capacitor type (ceramic, electrolytic/etc.) of 3.3 and 1 micro Farad ?
f. What is the capacitor voltage ratings?
g. What is "SCR 800V" shown next to the batteries being charged?
h. What is the part # of the Diode shown next to "2N3584" ?

2. How long will it take to re-charge a typical 12V car battery of 650CCA, that has drained down to 8-10V?

3. Will this circuit prevent overcharging?

4. What's the cheapest way to use a 120V AC wall outlet to use as supply 12V?
a. Can I use one of the 12V transformers used to laptops, LCDs, routers, etc.? If so, what should be the minimum amps rating of the transformer?
b. Can I use the 12V DC from the PC power supply? If so, what should be the minimum amps rating of the line voltage?

5. Will the circuit charge any type of battery (Li Ion/Polymer, NiMh, etc.)?

6. My ultimate goal to have a charger than can charge any car battery pack from 12V to 144V car EV pack (6/12V batteries in series/parallel) using 120V AC as source. Is that feasible by modifying this somehow? The commerical units are available of Bedini design, but for $1300!

Thank you.

[theremart]

YIKES copyright laws red alert!!

Please remove that schematic, as that is copy written material and life will be better for this board! ( I know I was hounded by Rick F. for posting it on the monopole boards bad me )

But will be glad to share what I know, All is good as I have built this, and I am charging a battery now with it. The circuit as show does has limitations, don't go over 13 V imput as it will cook the 555 and the opto. ( I am working on a revision now to separate those so i can take a 24V input. )

Be sure to know the updated schematic is ok that ships with the FEG with the exception that pins 4 and 5 are switched on the opto.

There are two caps on this board, if you look earlier on this message board you will find recommended ratings for the caps...

I myself prefer the ferrous material over the welding rods.

I have just built this like a month ago, and I am still learning myself, but will gladly share what I know.

Cheers!

[ren]

hmmm. Mart I have had no trouble running a solidstate on 24v. I had to replace the mj3055 transistor to a MLJ21194 as it was over heating, but never had any problems with the h11d1.

Something that may or may not help is this. Use a really thin wire on the output of the h11d1. The thinner it is the less current it will flow. Use really thick wire from the negative terminal to the anode of the SCR, and from the cathode to the cap. the h1's NPN is only rated for 500ma I think, it shouldnt be getting hot, especially if the current had a lower resistance path to travel.

Check all your pins, ive never had one heat up???

[ren]

Hello all,

I have several questions regarding the solid state version and have attached a schematic I found online. Please help:
1. Is this a complete and accurate circuit? Are the pins 4 & 5 on H11D1 correct or interchanged?

Look for a h11d1 data sheet on the net. The output side is a simple npn transistor and it is hooked up in darlington configuration to the other npn.

a. Are all resistors 1/4 watt?

That'll do the job

b. Are all 3 windings on trifilar 23 gauge similar to magnet wire? Someone mentioned using 26 gauge for one of the primary windings, is that better?

They are magnet wire, must be coated/insulated. 3 lengths of #23

c. What is the core material and dimensions? I have a 3/8" diameter ferrite rod of 10" length.

Core can be welding rods, or air core. Ferrite might work too.

d. 1N4007 physically looks like a diode with 2 ends, do I need 4 of them to make the full bridge rectifier as shown right of the coil?

No idea what your asking, a diode has two ends. You can use 4 to make a bridge, they will work fine.

e. What is the capacitor type (ceramic, electrolytic/etc.) of 3.3 and 1 micro Farad ?

You can try various caps. Plans state 3.3uF (microfarads) 600v cap. Pull apart an old CFL, there is one in there around those ratings. Can use higher capacitance caps too.

f. What is the capacitor voltage ratings?

Make sure it is fairly high (50 plus volts), ESPECIALLY if it is low uF rated.

g. What is "SCR 800V" shown next to the batteries being charged?

SCR stands for silicone controlled rectifier

h. What is the part # of the Diode shown next to "2N3584" ?

Its not a diode, if there is a diode on yours you have something different to me. 2n3584 is the transistor which is Darlington'ed to the optocoupler

2. How long will it take to re-charge a typical 12V car battery of 650CCA, that has drained down to 8-10V?

Depends on your gauge size, overall length, input voltage and quality of build and battery

3. Will this circuit prevent overcharging?

No

4. What's the cheapest way to use a 120V AC wall outlet to use as supply 12V?

Buy a cheap stepdown transformer for the rated voltage. try and get one that will provide a couple of amps @ 12v. Talk to your local electronic shop.

a. Can I use one of the 12V transformers used to laptops, LCDs, routers, etc.? If so, what should be the minimum amps rating of the transformer?

Yes. Minimum 1 amp.

b. Can I use the 12V DC from the PC power supply? If so, what should be the minimum amps rating of the line voltage?

Yes, see above.

5. Will the circuit charge any type of battery (Li Ion/Polymer, NiMh, etc.)?

Probably, but care must be taken. LEARN AS MUCH ABOUT YOUR BATTERY AS POSSIBLE. I would say no to all of them but Lead Acids and NiCads. Just not worth the risk.

6. My ultimate goal to have a charger than can charge any car battery pack from 12V to 144V car EV pack (6/12V batteries in series/parallel) using 120V AC as source. Is that feasible by modifying this somehow? The commerical units are available of Bedini design, but for $1300!

Bottom line, yes you could, But all your costs for research and builds, not to mention all your time spent, you would soon see that it would cost more and your results probably wouldnt be as good.

Thank you.

You're welcome, good luck with your build.

[Sephiroth]

e. What is the capacitor type (ceramic, electrolytic/etc.) of 3.3 and 1 micro Farad ?

You can try various caps. Plans state 3.3uF (microfarads) 600v cap. Pull apart an old CFL, there is one in there around those ratings. Can use higher capacitance caps too.

Just as a quick note many people are having better success using high farad caps and apparently this is what John used in his Monopole that ran indefinatly.

See this thread...
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-violated.html

There may still be something to charging low farad caps to high voltage. But so far everyone I know is having better success with the other configuration.

[theremart]

RE: caps..

Just as a quick note many people are having better success using high farad caps and apparently this is what John used in his Monopole that ran indefinatly.

See this thread...
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-violated.html

There may still be something to charging low farad caps to high voltage. But so far everyone I know is having better success with the other configuration.

How big do you recommend?

Thanks!