Bedini Solid State Oscillators

[juju]

hi lee

i read your document now, i first looked at it, but it seemed complicated to me...

but now lookin better is not so dificult and i have to say, the work is very well done...

i am just a newbie in electronics, i only have one 555 timer at this time... so i will try the first part A(astable) of your circuit...

but i see that the timer circuit, is being powered with an external source, so my only doubt is... can i power the timer circuit, with the same battery that will power the solid state bedini??

king regards

[smw1998a]

Hi juju,
the circuit is based on two CMOS 7555 timers, they are low power versions of the bipolar 555 but function the same. The problem with the Bedini circuits is they generally cause problems with integrated circuits (IC's), which is why I use a separate supply for the circuit but you can run the circuit from the Bedini supply battery as long as it is less than the 18v maximum for the 7555 and 15v for the 555.

Everybody has to start somewhere juju, I would suggest studying some of the 555 tutorials on the web, which are very good.

Regards Lee...

[sucahyo]

i will try your circuit but like Lee have said the charge from a self oscilation circuit is not so good as a pulsed charge!!


so im really lookin for a good simple 555 timer circuit that works with the solid state...

No, that is simply not true. my MJT can produce twice output voltage or output current than my 555 version. And I use the exact same two transistor for both circuit. Sting oscillator produce same output as my 555 version. Although I actually get more with sting oscillator because I can change its frequency.

Here is my combined sting oscillator and MJT:
YouTube - Sting Oscillator + MJT = big charging potential

The reason I don't use 555 anymore is because it fried to easily compare to the transistor. I also don't miss my 15% duty cycle because transistor heat is not a problem, coil heat is my problem.

my 555 version:



Same transistor. MJT use 1A air core coil, 555 use 1A iron core coil:
MJT direct output voltage = 300V
555 direct output voltage < 100V

However, MJT is tricky, not easily replicated and can not drive car coil. Which is why I am really happy when discovering sting oscillator.

I get current, but power out still about a third or less of power in generally

Here: 300mA output measured
YouTube - Sting oscillator + MJT output current measurement

from 1.5A input at 12V while charging a battery:
YouTube - Sting Oscillator + MJT input current

[phishy]

need some help/insight

Hello All!

I´m not all to experienced with electronics, and have been playing around with a few different ssg and half bipolar Bedini/cole variants in the last year.

i finally got round to sticking the SS Radiant Charger from the FEG-Book together, but with a couple of deviations, and i would need some insight, because when i test-drove it yesterday, my charge battery voltage actually went down.
So if anybody could help me with my questions i would be most grateful.

I havent got the 2N3584 so far, so i tried the mjl21194 instead. Would that be OK?

For the SCR i used the 2N6509.

cap-wise i got a little polarized 1µF - but am unsure which way it has to go in or whether it is appropriate to have a polarized cap in there.
the 3.3µ 600V is unpolarized. I´m measuring around 200 Volts across it when the device is running.

otherwise: everything built according to spec. i can hear it´s running, it does produce loads of spikes according to my scope, but my charge batt. went down from 12,28 to around 12,2 in a couple of hours... why?

thanks a lot for your help,
dave

[Sephiroth]

otherwise: everything built according to spec. i can hear it´s running, it does produce loads of spikes according to my scope, but my charge batt. went down from 12,28 to around 12,2 in a couple of hours... why?

thanks a lot for your help,
dave

Hi phishy, Welcome to the forum!

I saw something similar when charging a an old car battery.... where this charger would charge any one of my batteries normally, the voltage on this battery just kept dropping.

I put this down to the battery being desulphated by the charger. It is just a theory, but my thoughts are that as the battery's internal resistance drops (quickly relative to the charge rate), it would show a lowering voltage across the terminals instead of an increasing one...

but that might not be what's happening in your set up... what voltage are you discharging the cap?

[theremart]

I agree with Seph

If you watch Energy from the vacuum 2 video a sulfated batteries that he shows climbs high then drops in voltage.

The theory is that that spikes dislodge the sulfation and make more room for energy in the battery so the electricity now needs to fill the hole that has just been added. sorta like adding another capacitor to a battery the battery will drop, but... when it climbs back up it will have more amp hours than before.

The process is slow, ( deepending on size of batteries ) but over time if you have good batteries the amp hours increase, I think after 20 cycles I gained 10 amp hours on my golf cart batteries.

The same thing does happen without radiant charging, if you have a broken plate it can drop down and arc inside the battery and you will see all kinds of weird voltage readings. Electrolyte can do strange things as well if it gets contaminated. Several different factors.

[phishy]

Hi Seph & Mart

and thanks for your help. But sulphation is the only thing i´m not considering, because the battery i used is aprox. 1/2 year old, self filled and has never seen a "normal" charger. it was always charged on a ssg or half bipolar bedini/cole. i thought that maybe its due to the other points mentioned before (caps - polarity, mjl21194 -suitable?).
i will have a more thorough look at it in the next couple of days and make some scope shots. (unfortunately i´ve got too much work to do at the moment)
thanks a lot,
dave

[Sephiroth]

Do you know what voltage the cap is discharging at?

[theremart]

RE: never seen conventional charge.

Hi Seph & Mart

and thanks for your help. But sulphation is the only thing i´m not considering, because the battery i used is aprox. 1/2 year old, self filled and has never seen a "normal" charger. it was always charged on a ssg or half bipolar bedini/cole. i thought that maybe its due to the other points mentioned before (caps - polarity, mjl21194 -suitable?).
i will have a more thorough look at it in the next couple of days and make some scope shots. (unfortunately i´ve got too much work to do at the moment)
thanks a lot,
dave

There are many many factors with batteries. Check out the battery bible pdf for a lot more info.

But if you goto
Directory:Bedini SG:Replications - PESWiki

Read the experiences of other replicators you will see they had dips in their charging of the batteries as well.






If the battery was discharged and allowed to sit for any period of time a day or two, you are looking at prime condition for sulfation.

[phishy]

There are many many factors with batteries. Check out the battery bible pdf for a lot more info.
...
Read the experiences of other replicators you will see they had dips in their charging of the batteries as well.
...
If the battery was discharged and allowed to sit for any period of time a day or two, you are looking at prime condition for sulfation.

thanks, i already read all that... the battery charges up normal/good when i put it on the ssg or bedini/cole-bipolar... (verified!) i know my batts pretty well.

Do you know what voltage the cap is discharging at?

no, not so far, when i measured the voltage of the cap the last time it was above 200V all the time if i didn´t get it wrong. i hope i get round to doing some measurements tomorrow...but certainly on tuesday. i thought that maybe if i got the 1µF on the 555 in the wrong way that could be the problem. an within the next few days i should also get the specified transistor for the backend. should the 1µF be non-polarized? i´m going to try that first...

thanks for your help, i´ll report back as soon as i´ve got something to report ;-)
cheers,
dave

[sucahyo]

otherwise: everything built according to spec. i can hear it´s running, it does produce loads of spikes according to my scope, but my charge batt. went down from 12,28 to around 12,2 in a couple of hours... why?

Maybe because there is not enough current?

Try with very high voltage low capacity or very big capacity low voltage.

Either way, I prefer direct charging over cap dumping method because I could get cold charging even with 6 hour of 200mA direct radiant charging.

All my attempt to get cold charging with capacitor dumping or capacitor in paralel ended up failed.

[Sephiroth]

thanks, i already read all that... the battery charges up normal/good when i put it on the ssg or bedini/cole-bipolar... (verified!) i know my batts pretty well.



no, not so far, when i measured the voltage of the cap the last time it was above 200V all the time if i didn´t get it wrong. i hope i get round to doing some measurements tomorrow...but certainly on tuesday. i thought that maybe if i got the 1µF on the 555 in the wrong way that could be the problem. an within the next few days i should also get the specified transistor for the backend. should the 1µF be non-polarized? i´m going to try that first...

thanks for your help, i´ll report back as soon as i´ve got something to report ;-)
cheers,
dave

If it is reading 200v constantly then is it possible the cap isn't discharging?

[phishy]

If it is reading 200v constantly then is it possible the cap isn't discharging?

that´s just what i think, i had a quick look today before work, it measures 208v and doesnt fluctuate.
maybe thats due to the fact that the cap is a mkp? (they didn´t have any other with high V rating at the shop.) it does look rather like one i´d use for a loudspeaker filter network. are these to "sluggish"?
i also tried the 10µ cap on the 555 both ways and that didn´t change anything really.
i checked my order with potentialtec but stupid me ordered the wrong item again, so i´m getting another 2N6509 instead of the 2N3584 i meant to order
but the mjl21194 would work instead wouldn´t it?

@sucahyo: yes, very little current going into the circuit, just around 100mA if i remember correctly. Will switch try direct charging if i can´t get the 555 circuit to work (but i want it to work, just for the sake of it.... )

Well anyway, tomorrow i´m off work and will be having a more thorough look at the works... i´ll report back...
thanks a lot y´all
regards, dave

[Sephiroth]

that´s just what i think, i had a quick look today before work, it measures 208v and doesnt fluctuate.
maybe thats due to the fact that the cap is a mkp? (they didn´t have any other with high V rating at the shop.) it does look rather like one i´d use for a loudspeaker filter network. are these to "sluggish"?
i also tried the 10µ cap on the 555 both ways and that didn´t change anything really.
i checked my order with potentialtec but stupid me ordered the wrong item again, so i´m getting another 2N6509 instead of the 2N3584 i meant to order
but the mjl21194 would work instead wouldn´t it?

@sucahyo: yes, very little current going into the circuit, just around 100mA if i remember correctly. Will switch try direct charging if i can´t get the 555 circuit to work (but i want it to work, just for the sake of it.... )

Well anyway, tomorrow i´m off work and will be having a more thorough look at the works... i´ll report back...
thanks a lot y´all
regards, dave

To be honest, I'm not familiar with the spec in the book... the MJL21194 is an epic transistor and I use it for all my bedini projects as the main power transistor.

It sounds like the oscillator itself is working, but there may be a problem with the cap pulser circuit... can't really pin point the problem from here though I doubt the caps are the issue and the SCR you are using should be able to handle those kind of currents comfortably.

can you confirm the 555 circuit is functioning?

[phishy]

can you confirm the 555 circuit is functioning?

no, unfortunately not...and i don´t know yet how to either...