Bedini Solid State Oscillators

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, not sure where to post this, so since i intend to use a joule or bedini radiant oscillator, thought this was a good place.
I just received an old lithium ion lap top battery pack from someone and I was wondering if anyone has had good luck charging these with a radiant oscillator, I'm not sure the condition of the battery yet, because i have to snap off the plastic cover yet, though i assume it is sulphated probably.
Thanks for any comment help.
The battery says, dell Li-ion 11.1 volt
type U4873
capacity 80WH
peace love light
tyson

[blackchisel97]

In experimenting with running an SSG (2T SS SSG) that has a 26 AWG Trigger and two 18 AWG runs, 2 transistors... I found that I could not get the circuit to output nearly the current I could... with a transformer based power source.

Let me go over the details a bit more:

Input: (2) 15 watt solar panels, total output (open circuit measured) 24V / 1.5A.

I was using a 60V 15,0000 uF capacitor for impedance matching parallel between the solar output and the circuit input rails.


Previously when running the circuit on a 12V source (DC adapter) I would observe (at very most) about 1.5A on the input side.

Then I took my scope, and took a 0.49 ohm resistor and placed it in series inline on the + side, and placed the probe of scope on one side of the resistor and it's ground clip on the other. The odd thing is, I didn't suspect this would work at all, I thought that you cannot use a scope "like a DMM", I was of the understanding the ground clip was just that; always to be at the ground of the circuit. And that it would actually take two probes to be able to measure across a resistor?! Anyway, what I saw was a wave something like this:



When I worked out the voltage drop at the peak of the wave, and calculated current using the resistor value, I was surprised it was quite high (by comparing it to an inline measurement), and then I thought, ok.. the meter is averaging it, and much of the period, there is actually no current being drawn, so obviously the average current drawn, would in fact be much lower.

Is this observation correct, and the reason my solar panel always underperforms versus the wall wart, is that there is not enough current available for this sawtooth to peak at the same height, i.e. at any instant it cannot draw many amps, and thus over time, it cannot average an amp, or so?

I was running my circuit at quite a low frequency, trying to see what I could get it to draw, and thus deliver to the battery (solar) and it never exceed about 30% of what I would see typically, powered from a DC wall source.

Thanks for helping me understand this, feel free to tear my idea apart LOL Just trying to learn.

Cheers All

Looking at the scope shot it seems like you're right. I have 40W panel and it can barely run my smaller prototypes. Did you check V across your panel powering SSG (under the load)? What is the freq?

Thanks
Vtech

[blackchisel97]

Hi folks, not sure where to post this, so since i intend to use a joule or bedini radiant oscillator, thought this was a good place.
I just received an old lithium ion lap top battery pack from someone and I was wondering if anyone has had good luck charging these with a radiant oscillator, I'm not sure the condition of the battery yet, because i have to snap off the plastic cover yet, though i assume it is sulphated probably.
Thanks for any comment help.
The battery says, dell Li-ion 11.1 volt
type U4873
capacity 80WH
peace love light
tyson

Hi Tyson. I tried and it didn't work but internal condition was unknown (rather poor). I have heard that some batteries have protection and cannot be charged with pulse. Not sure if Li-ion or metal.

Vtech

[kcarring]

@blackchisel

Yes, I did, but it was a while back so I probably shouldn't summarize. I'll do it again. I found the whole apparatus worked much better by placing a battery inline as a buffer, i.e; instead of a capacitor. Problem with that scenario was, though, I accidentally knocked it down to 9V. It was charging like a mofo though LOL plenty of voltage for the circuit. I actually had both a battery and the capacitor paralleled with the Bedini input. The battery was significantly smaller than the charge battery, a garden battery working against an RV battery. I think, that is how I will continue - in regards to desulphating - take two known goods, in parallel with the solar panel, and have the cap there too.. i might even do this "at the 24V level" Does anybody ever do it that? Sort of the opposite of what you see Rick doing? Use 24V input instead of twelve? In a way it would make sense... why ever risk having current at too low of a voltage trying to fight it's way in? I don't know... then shuttle that energy into the circuit, and into the "repair" battery. Then have some kind of low input cutoff, so that when the run bats get low, the bedini disconnects, and the solar just goes to work on the buffer bats.

as for the frequency... for the first test I was trying to take it as low as I could, step by step to see just how much current I could get it to push. I think with the new setup, I'll be a bit more modest and look more for an optimum level say around 800 Hz.

[blackchisel97]

@blackchisel

Yes, I did, but it was a while back so I probably shouldn't summarize. I'll do it again. I found the whole apparatus worked much better by placing a battery inline as a buffer, i.e; instead of a capacitor. Problem with that scenario was, though, I accidentally knocked it down to 9V. It was charging like a mofo though LOL plenty of voltage for the circuit. I actually had both a battery and the capacitor paralleled with the Bedini input. The battery was significantly smaller than the charge battery, a garden battery working against an RV battery. I think, that is how I will continue - in regards to desulphating - take two known goods, in parallel with the solar panel, and have the cap there too.. i might even do this "at the 24V level" Does anybody ever do it that? Sort of the opposite of what you see Rick doing? Use 24V input instead of twelve? In a way it would make sense... why ever risk having current at too low of a voltage trying to fight it's way in? I don't know... then shuttle that energy into the circuit, and into the "repair" battery. Then have some kind of low input cutoff, so that when the run bats get low, the bedini disconnects, and the solar just goes to work on the buffer bats.

as for the frequency... for the first test I was trying to take it as low as I could, step by step to see just how much current I could get it to push. I think with the new setup, I'll be a bit more modest and look more for an optimum level say around 800 Hz.

@kcarring, Yes, My SS runs on 19V with inverter trigger at near 4A input (on highest setting). With normal trigger configuration you can go 24V or more. Watch base current and adjust resistance accordingly. With aircore you can go higher than 800Hz (try couple kHz). I was running SS with iron core at 800Hz.

Thanks
Vtech

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi blackchisel, thanks for the information.
I took apart the li-ion laptop battery pack, which was not very easy that's for sure and it has 9 individual cells shaped like large AA's, with 3 sets of cells in parallel/series connection.
One of the sets of 3 in parallel were bad, only showing .5 volts or less and do not seem to take a charge from my radiant pulser.
Though the other 2 parallel sets in series were good and showed 8 volts in series.
I ran a tail light bulb load and it ran that load for hours, only dropping to 7.6 or so volts, so i decided to top them off with my radiant charger at 300 milliamp input using 13.8 volt supply and it works very well.
I notice no heat at all, in fact they are cold, though i read that is normal for these batteries to stay cool.
peace love light
tyson

[kcarring]

Hi folks, Hi blackchisel, thanks for the information.
I took apart the li-ion laptop battery pack, which was not very easy that's for sure and it has 9 individual cells shaped like large AA's

Interesting. I think those are 18650's like these? I've bought some and I find them very long lasting, good batteries that can handle heavy loading. I noticed they all have internal circuit protection - I wonder if that protection will see the spikes? Probably not. My air core spikes are barely discernable on my oscilloscope when you measure right at the battery...

I've thought of hooking four of these inline series, for a maximum desired 4.2V X 4 = 16.8 - which - quite nicely matches the output of a 12 volt solar panel. I have some small solar panels that only output 80-120 milliamps each, and such a system would be 4 amp hours, so 2 of those panels should safely bring those batteries up to charge with no heat, and they are overvoltage protected anyway... you could have a shunt off to the side that normally sees no current when the batteries are providing no real resistance but once the auto shutoff kicks in... current flows down the shunt path, opens up an npn and lets all current flow down a new path to a second bank or a load resistor or whatever...

Keep us posted
These batteries look like a good route to DIY battery packs for electric powered bicycles, solar charged.

[ZeropointEnergy]

SS SSG circuits

Has been a few months since a posted here but I'm still experimenting.

I have started playing around with Bedini's new SS SSG circuit in December 2011 when I found out about it here and have been very impressed.

I have obtained great results running this circuit with a Solar panel in parallel with a cap in place of the primary.

SS SSG via a 20W Solar Panel in place of a primary battery - 9th March 2012.AVI - YouTube

I'm a testing different base resistances on a new 4 transistor circuit that still needs refining to match the desired battery. Thus far the charging is efficient and the load tests are progressing along.

SS SSG Demo showing the basics - 26th Febuary 2012.AVI - YouTube

Regards
Zero

[ehsanco1062]

Has been a few months since a posted here but I'm still experimenting.

I have started playing around with Bedini's new SS SSG circuit in December 2011 when I found out about it here and have been very impressed.

I have obtained great results running this circuit with a Solar panel in parallel with a cap in place of the primary.

SS SSG via a 20W Solar Panel in place of a primary battery - 9th March 2012.AVI - YouTube

I'm a testing different base resistances on a new 4 transistor circuit that still needs refining to match the desired battery. Thus far the charging is efficient and the load tests are progressing along.

SS SSG Demo showing the basics - 26th Febuary 2012.AVI - YouTube

Regards
Zero

Hi ZeropointEnergy

I dont see that you are using the Cap&Diode modification like minoly in his setup I think that you should try it and see what is the different between the two circuit with out the modification and with the Cap&Diods modification.
good luck.

[totoalas]

Has been a few months since a posted here but I'm still experimenting.

I have started playing around with Bedini's new SS SSG circuit in December 2011 when I found out about it here and have been very impressed.

I have obtained great results running this circuit with a Solar panel in parallel with a cap in place of the primary.

SS SSG via a 20W Solar Panel in place of a primary battery - 9th March 2012.AVI - YouTube

I'm a testing different base resistances on a new 4 transistor circuit that still needs refining to match the desired battery. Thus far the charging is efficient and the load tests are progressing along.

SS SSG Demo showing the basics - 26th Febuary 2012.AVI - YouTube

Regards
Zero

Hi Zero
with Minoly set up ( 6 coiler) Ive tried to use only 33000 uf 400 v dc cap on the primary without batteries using 10 watts solar panel / controller and it works @ 246 mA input charges 3 20 ah deep cycle batteries

Your set up in the primary using only caps plus two transistors is a good booster and will speed up the charging instead of depending soly on solar output

totoalas

[ZeropointEnergy]

CPD mod

Hi ZeropointEnergy

I dont see that you are using the Cap&Diode modification like minoly in his setup I think that you should try it and see what is the different between the two circuit with out the modification and with the Cap&Diods modification.
good luck.

I have not used any mods till I have tested further exactly like Bedini's patent, other than I solar panel as the primary of coarse.
Minoly does have a great mod and I did test it in a board while playing around with switching times of the MJL21194's.
However, out of respect for the CPD mod and Patrick I will hook it up again in parallel with the trigger and run a few cycles. Then compare the results

Regards
Zero

[ZeropointEnergy]

Hi Zero
with Minoly set up ( 6 coiler) Ive tried to use only 33000 uf 400 v dc cap on the primary without batteries using 10 watts solar panel / controller and it works @ 246 mA input charges 3 20 ah deep cycle batteries

Your set up in the primary using only caps plus two transistors is a good booster and will speed up the charging instead of depending soly on solar output

totoalas

Hey Totoalas,

The reason I used the 40V @ 9300MFD (uf) cap was due to was on hand and is a $90 cap made for over 9A or 16A of surge current if needed.
(sorry so many caps and will have to go through my PDF's)
Sometimes I use a 30V @ 55000uf cap that is overkill and will hold charge for 10 secs or so after primary is disconnected, on the DSO the wave drops in voltage and looked very cool as the waveforms shrinks.
Have added many caps on the front end and my conclusion is pick one that is over the surge current rating you need. I don't see why 400V cap is needed on the primary side due to will only raise in voltage in proportion to the energy added via the input. (battery/solar array/power supply)

I can charge a 12V @ 54AH starter battery on as low as 400mA with a 4 transistor SS SSG circuit, 246mA for 60AH bank is very nice.
I have found that if the current draw is too low then the 8 hrs or more of sun is not sufficient to charge the battery to a desired cut off above 14.5V.
However, voltage regulators are my next step for the ominious cloud cover that reduces the charging and apply a constant input.

Highest I have run the panel is 15V across the cap at 1.3A (19.5W) and this was not as efficient as 800mA due to fluctuations, or just cloud cover.
Good luck with the builds

Regards
Zero

[49er]

New usage for the SS SSG

Hi All

This is what I have done with my SS TS Oscillator

SS TS WC&D MOD &HHO MOD.wmv - YouTube

Doug

[totoalas]

Hey Totoalas,

The reason I used the 40V @ 9300MFD (uf) cap was due to was on hand and is a $90 cap made for over 9A or 16A of surge current if needed.
(sorry so many caps and will have to go through my PDF's)
Sometimes I use a 30V @ 55000uf cap that is overkill and will hold charge for 10 secs or so after primary is disconnected, on the DSO the wave drops in voltage and looked very cool as the waveforms shrinks.
Have added many caps on the front end and my conclusion is pick one that is over the surge current rating you need. I don't see why 400V cap is needed on the primary side due to will only raise in voltage in proportion to the energy added via the input. (battery/solar array/power supply)

I can charge a 12V @ 54AH starter battery on as low as 400mA with a 4 transistor SS SSG circuit, 246mA for 60AH bank is very nice.
I have found that if the current draw is too low then the 8 hrs or more of sun is not sufficient to charge the battery to a desired cut off above 14.5V.
However, voltage regulators are my next step for the ominious cloud cover that reduces the charging and apply a constant input.

Highest I have run the panel is 15V across the cap at 1.3A (19.5W) and this was not as efficient as 800mA due to fluctuations, or just cloud cover.
Good luck with the builds

Regards
Zero

Hi zero

just for an update
using 4 transistors ssg 5 coiler input can be varied from 200 ma to 3.5 a ( transistors get hot) 33000 uf caps on both ends maybe my old batteries are dead since they will not go up to 12 v for 2 hours even in my old six filar set up ..
Ive left charged up @ 20 v for so long thats why maybe i damaged the plates 30 hkd used 20 ah wheelchair deep cycle batteris As Minoly said better go for new batteries to have good results

will try the thgird circuit same 4 transistor set up and see what happens


thanks

totoalas

[totoalas]

Bedini SSG 1000 AH Capacity Charger 170312

Hi zero

just for an update
using 4 transistors ssg 5 coiler input can be varied from 200 ma to 3.5 a ( transistors get hot) 33000 uf caps on both ends maybe my old batteries are dead since they will not go up to 12 v for 2 hours even in my old six filar set up ..
Ive left charged up @ 20 v for so long thats why maybe i damaged the plates 30 hkd used 20 ah wheelchair deep cycle batteris As Minoly said better go for new batteries to have good results

will try the thgird circuit same 4 transistor set up and see what happens


thanks

totoalas

Hi Zero, Minoly
finally found the problem after a nap lol the upper base of base resistance mot connected

All went well thanks to you guys

totoalas

SS G 1000 AH CAPACITY CHARGER 170312 - YouTube