Solid State Bedini

[Jetijs]

Hi all
I was load testing one of my batteries, but the test stopped due to a computer crash. It had already pulled out some 10Ah of that battery. So I decided to do another test. Since Carl said that Bedini charger does drain the battery to 8v when conditioning, I decided to load my battery to the same voltage. I got an interesting discharge curve:



Isnt that odd? Could that be because at one point one of the cells fail and then the discharge goes on as usual using only 5 cells? Because it certainly seems like this. Both of my batteries behave the same way. I will now charge one of them un after this deep discharge and see what it does.
Thanks,
Jetijs

[theremart]

Trying something different...

Today I took the SS Bedini from the FEG book, and decided instead of trying to up the voltage on the front end to up the voltage on the back end.

I went to 60V on the back end ( 6 batteries wired in series ) and I am suprized to see that it is charging them slowly but much better rate of charge than if I had done them separately.

One thing I have noted is that the voltage when wired in series seems to always rise the batteries from the negative terminal of the charging battery seems to go up faster than the one connected to the positive side. Konehead from another group pointed this out, and I started looking for this and it does seem consistent.

Since I am in no hurry to charge all of these batteries, I think I will just let this run 24/7 as I have a 32 watt solar panel hooked to the primary. I have 3 semi batteries hooked in parallel for source and they stay between 12.3 and 13 V with it supplying power to the SS.

I may start adding more batteries to this it seems the higher the back voltage the better the charge.

[hh1341]

Hi all
Since Carl said that Bedini charger does drain the battery to 8v when conditioning, I decided to load my battery to the same voltage. I got an interesting discharge curve:


Thanks,
Jetijs

Remember now, this charger is the commercially available, solid state one, offered by Introducting the Renaissance RC-30A12 & RC-15A24 Commercial Battery Rejuvenators .

Don't know if our home built ones will perform the same. (of course my home built didn't cost me 1500 dollars, either )
Carl

[Jetijs]

Hi all.
Today I made some pictures of the cell condition on one of my batteries:





This is in almost all the cells. I am not sure, but that white stuff should be the insulator, that insulates the lead plates from touching. If so, then the cells are physically damaged and I don't see any point in renewing them. On the other hand, I have a silly hope that that white stuff could be the sulfate, in this case the less is there, the better What do you think?
The plates are obviously not straight, because they have worked in harsh environment, for example, starting a wood transporter truck in temperatures below zero, the rapid temp. change makes the plates deform. Also these trucks work in woods and the road there is very bumpy so they have undergone a serious stress of vibration. This might be why I see such a discharge curve. The amp hours are still there, but the cells are just not in good condition and if some plates in a cell are touching, obviously the capacity of that cell will go down and it is likely to fail first. No radiant chargers can solve that.

[ldissing]

I've been thinking a lot about all of this stuff. Looking at scope traces, spikes, etc.

I could be wrong here, but tell me what you guys think of this.

You all know that an inductor can be used to double the input voltage and have seen circuits that do this. This is basically what the Bedini single coil is doing, just using one wire for a trigger and the other as a power wire (of course, the SS has at least 3 wires, but it doesn't necessarily need three wires).

Bedini is always saying to charge without current. And that a positive energy cancels negative energy. So, with that in mind and doubling of the input voltage, you can see why he normally recommends the battery on the front end to have the same voltage as the back end. A 12 volt battery on the front end will cause the inductor to put out basically 24 volts at turn off (and of course, a spike). If the charge battery negative is connected to the positive of the source, then ONLY the spike is being transferred to the destination battery. Well, if the dest battery is at 12 volts, otherwise, there is some positive charge going to that battery until it reaches 12 volts.

So, if there is a higher voltage on the backend, then only the the spike is getting sent over to the charge batteries, because the charge batteries voltage is higher than the coil can produce (except the spike).

So, my theory is that if the input voltage is higher than the charge battery voltage, there is positive energy going into the charge battery because of the coil doubling the voltage along with a spike. The batteries charge faster, because you are pushing some positive current into that battery after the spike. But, it is a positive charge, not a negative charge. Maybe the spike pushes it into some kind of negative energy mode, but I'm wondering if conditioning should not be done with batteries of the same voltage on the source and charge sides?

Not being able to switch primary and charge batteries doesn't make sense to me either. What is the SS or SSG? It is an inductor (a coil), which is what a motor uses. JB always says that a motor can be run with negative energy, along with lights, and caps which will transduce the neg to pos energy, etc. The SS or SSG is just a type of motor with a few transistors and resistors. Anybody else think this a strange thing?

L

[Shamus]

Yes, I've been wondering about this myself. I've used a radiantly charged 1000MCA marine starter battery to drive my Bedini circuits without any problems. I have no idea why only 'positive' energy should work ideally on the front end, but that's what Mr. Bedini says. And I keep coming back to the fact that he says it doesn't matter how many batteries you put on the back end, that 'negative' energy doesn't care. He says that this is where you see COP>1. But if you put multiple batteries on the back end, you're changing the impedance of the system.

Yes, the TUV test that John has on his website keeps running through my mind. Here it is in full (mods feel free to remove this if necessary, this is part of http://www.icehouse.net/john34/bedinibearden.html):

BATTERY TEST FOR THE BEDINI MOTOR GENERATOR

DATE : OCTOBER 13, 2000
BATTERY TEST SEQUENCE:
One lead acid gel-cell (12 volts, 450 milliamps) is being utilized as the primary source fully charged at 12.5 volts

Three (3) lead acid gel-cell batteries (12 volt, 450 milliamps) strapped in parallel are being used as the charge destination. The batteries are discharged to 10 volts for the test purposes.

Test #1 starts at 10:45 AM utilizing primary battery fully charged at 12.5 volts charging three (3) destination batteries paralleled. The destination batteries reach a charge capacity of 14 volts at 11:20 AM.
The destination batteries are then discharged to 10 volts under working load to prepare for Test #2.

Test #2 starts at 11:25 AM utilizing primary battery measured at 11.5 volts. Charging three (3) destination batteries paralleled. The destination batteries reach a charge capacity of 14 volts at 12:50 PM.
The destination batteries are then discharged to 10 volts under working load to prepare for Test #3.

Test #3 starts at 1:00 PM utilizing primary battery measured at 10.5 volts. Charging three (3) destination batteries paralleled. The destination batteries reach a charge capacity of 14 volts at 1:40 PM.
The destination batteries are then discharged to 10 volts under working load to prepare for Test #4.

Test #4 starts at 2:05 PM utilizing primary battery measured at 9.5 volts. Charging three (3) destination batteries paralleled. The destination batteries reach a charge capacity of 13 volts at 2:40 PM. The primary battery is now discharged to 9 volts under working load and unable to further run the

TOTAL BATTERIES CHARGED:
12 lead acid gel-cell batteries (12 volts, 450 milliamps each). This ratio is a 12 to 1 charging factor. The motor operation (work) being performed as this was done is not included as an additional factor in this test.

Now, he was able to use ONE 12 volt battery to charge up THREE identical batteries on the back end in less than ONE hour. To me, this is the yardstick of success we should all be striving for. In my humble opinion, of course.

[Jetijs]

Hi all.
I was wondering about Michaels circuit. I mean this:



Does it seem right to you? I mean the transistor emiter is not connected to the ground of the primary battery. And does the trigger winding have to be connected to the positive terminal of the drive battery just like the slave power windings? I don't see how this could work. Or am I missing something here?
This is the basic Bedini self oscillator circuit:


Is a bit different.

[dambit]

I didn't realise you put a resistor between the emitter and base.

[Sephiroth]

I didn't realise you put a resistor between the emitter and base.

Yes, I can't understand the purpose of the resitor between the emitter and the base... I find my circutis work fine without the resistor... I am assuming it is a very high value resistance to aid self oscillation, but my circuits work fine with no resistor between the base and emitter. However I use the MJLs and they can take a bit more punishment than the 2N3055s so it could be a protective componant like the neon.

[Druide]

Hi all.
I was wondering about Michaels circuit. I mean this:

Does it seem right to you? I mean the transistor emiter is not connected to the ground of the primary battery. And does the trigger winding have to be connected to the positive terminal of the drive battery just like the slave power windings? I don't see how this could work. Or am I missing something here?

You're right Jet, I compared with Hoppy's circuit, the emiters should be connected to the drive battery negative. Didn't have time to build this circuit yet, I'm glad you noticed this mistake !

Keep up the good work !

Michel

[Druide]

...and if you look at Hoppy's circuit http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...bedini-boc.jpg the trigger coil is connected to the primary battery positive.

Michel

[ren]

Yes, I can't understand the purpose of the resitor between the emitter and the base... I find my circutis work fine without the resistor... I am assuming it is a very high value resistance to aid self oscillation, but my circuits work fine with no resistor between the base and emitter. However I use the MJLs and they can take a bit more punishment than the 2N3055s so it could be a protective componant like the neon.

I found that you dont necessarily need the 18 k resistor either Sep. Or rather, it still seems to work. Who knows what little changes may do to the system in the long term?

I am currently working on a solidstate setup that should prove very interesting. As far as I am aware, it has never been built like this, within Bedini circles anyway. I'll post some more details here when its done

[Hoppy]

I found that you dont necessarily need the 18 k resistor either Sep. Or rather, it still seems to work. Who knows what little changes may do to the system in the long term?

I am currently working on a solidstate setup that should prove very interesting. As far as I am aware, it has never been built like this, within Bedini circles anyway. I'll post some more details here when its done

@all

If anyone builds the circuit I posted, I suggest that low value resistor of about 0.1R is placed in each of the emitter to ground legs. This will help to even out the collector / emitter currents flowing in each power strand.

Hoppy

[gmeat]

Hi all.
I was wondering about Michaels circuit. I mean this:



Does it seem right to you? I mean the transistor emiter is not connected to the ground of the primary battery. And does the trigger winding have to be connected to the positive terminal of the drive battery just like the slave power windings? I don't see how this could work. Or am I missing something here?
This is the basic Bedini self oscillator circuit:


Is a bit different.

Hi Jetijs,


Have you tried this circuit?.I dont see how it could work to be honest with you .


-Gary

[Jetijs]

Gary, which circuit do you mean? Michaels circuit? No I have not tried it, I just saw it and found that there is something wrong with it. I have tried the last on on my post though and it works fine