One magnet no bearing Bedini motor

[jonnydavro]

@ synchro.Great post.I allways like to read yours as your ideas and insights are fascinating.
@Lidmotor.I had a little play with your motor today and it is quite a gem.I had it running on 0.8 v which i think is the lowest i have run a motor on and it may have gone lower.I have measured the rpm's with my tacho and on a 1.5v battery,the cylinder rotor was doing 3600 rpm's.I also tried some sphere's,neo and magnetite and they span nice and i got the snake egg going too but had to spin that up on the Bedini first as as you know its getting the magnet upright which takes juice but once its up its fine.
My motors LED flashes too and is what i think is happening is that the jouethief is doing its thing and oscillating away but these oscillations are not strong enough to spin the magnet but fine to light the led and the magnet triggers the transistor,lets say on the north pole and this is what pushes the magnet and then the south pole comes around induces a voltage in the coil which shows itself as a brightening of the led.The thing which has got me scratching my head and puts a bit of a dent in my theory is the amp draw is almost the same as when the joulethief is just running with or without the magnet so enter synchro's theory stage rightCould that one power pulse per revolution be enough to spin the rotor amongst the chaos of the pulses from the oscilator?or are the oscilations involved?.Can you see these power pulses on your scope amongst the oscilations?
Your motor is raising some interesting questions Lidmotor.Nice Work.regards jonny.

[Lidmotor]

Light Multiplier ---Amp draw readings

@Jonny & All
Here is a video of what we have been talking about. I am showing an actual reduction in amp draw when the oscillator is driving the magnet and lighting up 'Maggie' . When I remove the oscillator from the rotor the amp draw goes up about 5 or 6 more mA. This is very interesting.
By the way if you use a smaller rotor it will spin faster and the led won't blink. If you don't have one just add slightly more voltage.


YouTube - Light Multiplier---Amp draw measurements.ASF

Cheers,

Lidmotor

[synchro]

Sine waves.

Two test results come to mind. One; The Youtube video of Retrod1, where he spins a tube magnet with a signal generator outputting it's full sine wave audio signal through a degauser coil at around 70 Hz. No pulse in evidence here! Two; The super fast magnet spheres of Alfcenturi's Youtube videos, where R.P.M.s appear to be above the maximum switch rate for pulse from the transistor, while in resonant oscillation. Perhaps, by shielding the transistor with a tiny box of dimagnetic material like bismuth, pulse interference might be dampened enough to permit multiple spinners to run simultaniously.

[retrod]

Two test results come to mind. One; The Youtube video of Retrod1, where he spins a tube magnet with a signal generator outputting it's full sine wave audio signal through a degauser coil at around 70 Hz. No pulse in evidence here! Two; The super fast magnet spheres of Alfcenturi's Youtube videos, where R.P.M.s appear to be above the maximum switch rate for pulse from the transistor, while in resonant oscillation. Perhaps, by shielding the transistor with a tiny box of dimagnetic material like bismuth, pulse interference might be dampened enough to permit multiple spinners to run simultaniously.

@Synchro, you have a good memory. If the drive coil is observed with a scope one can see the interaction of the spinning rotor (magnet) field with the drive coil field. I believe this is what is causing the current decrease in Lidmotor's latest video. Using a pure sine wave on the drive coil makes this easier to observe

Dave

[Lidmotor]

Interaction with magnet and coil

@Synchro, you have a good memory. If the drive coil is observed with a scope one can see the interaction of the spinning rotor (magnet) field with the drive coil field. I believe this is what is causing the current decrease in Lidmotor's latest video. Using a pure sine wave on the drive coil makes this easier to observe

Dave

Dave,
I looked at this on the scope and there IS an interaction with the magnet and the coil. My simple oscillator produces an "h" shaped wave form and when the magnet is indroduced into things the "h" is still there but it is distorted. The frequency also goes down and I attribute the drop in amp draw to that (less pulses per second). Someone else suggested that it was the magnet's counter EMF that was pushing back on the coil and that is why the amp draw goes down.
What I am still puzzeled over is 'Maggie'. Why do her eyes work so well with the spinning magnet and the reduced amp draw? Her two LEDs in parallel take real power to run. It appears that there is NO transferance of load backwards through the spinning magnet to the main circuit. Maggie's load only slows the magnet down, reduces the pulse per second, and drops the amp draw. Where does the extra power come from to run 'Maggie'???? My thinking is that I am seeing an increase in the efficency of light producion. Light is a display of energy. Maybe I am seeing the energy come out as light instead of it going away in heat.

Cheers,

Lidmotor

[retrod]

Dave,
I looked at this on the scope and there IS an interaction with the magnet and the coil. My simple oscillator produces an "h" shaped wave form and when the magnet is indroduced into things the "h" is still there but it is distorted. The frequency also goes down and I attribute the drop in amp draw to that (less pulses per second). Someone else suggested that it was the magnet's counter EMF that was pushing back on the coil and that is why the amp draw goes down.
What I am still puzzeled over is 'Maggie'. Why do her eyes work so well with the spinning magnet and the reduced amp draw? Her two LEDs in parallel take real power to run. It appears that there is NO transferance of load backwards through the spinning magnet to the main circuit. Maggie's load only slows the magnet down, reduces the pulse per second, and drops the amp draw. Where does the extra power come from to run 'Maggie'???? My thinking is that I am seeing an increase in the efficency of light producion. Light is a display of energy. Maybe I am seeing the energy come out as light instead of it going away in heat.

Cheers,

Lidmotor

The frequency change you noted in the circuit may be due to the interaction of the signal coming back from the magnet. 'Maggie' is a load on the magnet only. Awhile back I demonstrated how a large magnet (spinning mass) can generate more useable energy. I believe I had powered 37 leds and a neon lamp in series from the spinning magnet YouTube - retrod1's Channel
There is a region where the magnet can sustain the load without slowing and the oscillator and magnet remain stable in frequency. You are correct that the spinning magnet has negligible impact on the oscillator operating current. These Bedini/Davro/magnet circuits are excellent test beds for learning

Highest regards,
Dave

[jonnydavro]

Hi.Here is my replication of Lidmotors Light multiplier.I have been wanting to do this all week and got some free time today to play.
I used a 10k pot instead of Lidmotors 23 ohm resistor as i think there is some variation in the resistance of these microwave oven coils and mine ran at 29mA on a 25ohm resistor and a 10k allows you plenty of wiggle room.
My vid shows similar effects as what Lidmotor has found regarding current draw.
here's a vid.Regards jonny
YouTube - Lidmotors light multiplier replication.

[Lidmotor]

Vacuum tubes

@retrod--
I watched your video and that sure brought back some memories. Thanks Dave for posting it. I know that this dates me, but my earliest electronics training was building a simple vacuum tube amplifier in a 7th grade electronics class. That project is long gone but I wish that I still had it and the knowledge that accompanied it. My Dad still has a bunch of those old tubes in his garage. Maybe I can rescue one and build something with it. He and I used to go down to the local drug store and test the tubes together on the test machine that they had there. I grew up with Dad constantly fiddling around in the back end of a TV. One day he touched the flyback and took a trip across the living room floor. Scared my mom terribly. He never did that again and it taught me (at an early age) to be careful of what I touched.
I am still pondering what is happening on my little Light Multiplier. The rotating magnetic mass, like you said, has something to do with why it works.

Lidmotor

[Lidmotor]

Jonny's replication

Hi.Here is my replication of Lidmotors Light multiplier.I have been wanting to do this all week and got some free time today to play.
I used a 10k pot instead of Lidmotors 23 ohm resistor as i think there is some variation in the resistance of these microwave oven coils and mine ran at 29mA on a 25ohm resistor and a 10k allows you plenty of wiggle room.
My vid shows similar effects as what Lidmotor has found regarding current draw.
here's a vid.Regards jonny
YouTube - Lidmotors light multiplier replication.

Thanks Jonny. What you added to it and your explanations were great. I really like the addition of the pot to add some control. If you use a smaller magnet spinner the RPMs go way up and the flickering goes away. Also, I am using a big coil of fine wire and a bridge rectifier for Maggie.
I am hoping that this project draws in more people and the whole idea will evolve into something useful.
Wonderful replication Jonny.
Thanks again,

Lidmotor

[jonnydavro]

@Lidmotor.Thanks The 10k pot is prooving really useful as you can run it on higher voltages easily now and tune the amp draw high or low.
I would like to tell you about something else which i forgot to mention in the video.I decided to try the 6mm neo sphere as i wanted to get a magnet as close to the coil as possible as the cylinder likes to be about 1.5"- 2" away from the coil,anyway with the small sphere,the joulethief amp draw goes up when the sphere is dropped in but will go down if the joulethief is drawing 25mA or more with no flickering.I find this very interesting as it may mean that the cylinder is inducing voltage in the coil which is lowering the amp draw and the small neo only produces enough induction when it is spun faster at the higher amp draw.
Just thinking out loud. Regards jonny
@All.Here is a vid from alfacentauro1111 on utube.His motors are the fastest i have seen and here's his Snake egg.He even has it spining on a table cloth.
YouTube - Fast egg magnet HD

[Lidmotor]

Spinners

@Lidmotor.Thanks The 10k pot is prooving really useful as you can run it on higher voltages easily now and tune the amp draw high or low.
I would like to tell you about something else which i forgot to mention in the video.I decided to try the 6mm neo sphere as i wanted to get a magnet as close to the coil as possible as the cylinder likes to be about 1.5"- 2" away from the coil,anyway with the small sphere,the joulethief amp draw goes up when the sphere is dropped in but will go down if the joulethief is drawing 25mA or more with no flickering.I find this very interesting as it may mean that the cylinder is inducing voltage in the coil which is lowering the amp draw and the small neo only produces enough induction when it is spun faster at the higher amp draw.
Just thinking out loud. Regards jonny
@All.Here is a vid from alfacentauro1111 on utube.His motors are the fastest i have seen and here's his Snake egg.He even has it spining on a table cloth.
YouTube - Fast egg magnet HD

@Jonny
I also find the relationship between the spinning rotor and the coils interesting. There is a dance going on there. Arm in arm they twirl around. I can see the dance on my scope and hear their music on my little AM radio. When the song is good they can sure put on a show.

Lidmotor

[CosmicFarmer]

@lidmotor
I found the microwave fan motor I had hiding in my workshop, and it has 3 leads. Once I get the thing out of its lamination core and make it into a JT, I'll post a replication video for you.


If 1 "Maggie" reduces amp draw... What about 2?



-EDIT-
Took it out of its lamination... No middle tap. Im going to add wire to it and make it right! Cant be that hard. Ive got plenty of magnet wire.

[Lidmotor]

Coil with no center tap

@lidmotor
I found the microwave fan motor I had hiding in my workshop, and it has 3 leads. Once I get the thing out of its lamination core and make it into a JT, I'll post a replication video for you.


If 1 "Maggie" reduces amp draw... What about 2?



-EDIT-
Took it out of its lamination... No middle tap. Im going to add wire to it and make it right! Cant be that hard. Ive got plenty of magnet wire.

Cosmic---I will be surprised if you can get that to work but let us know if you do.

If you add a second Maggie it will not reduce the amp draw except by slowing down the rotor which reduces the triggered pulses per second of the drive coil. If you slow the rotor down too much, then the system just goes into self-oscillation and the rotor stops and falls over.

Lidmotor

[Joit]

YouTube - Double led self charging circuit
YouTube - NEW CIRCUIT FOR SELF CHARGING MAGNETIC MOTOR 2

[fusionchip]

Help !

@retrod--
I watched your video and that sure brought back some memories. Thanks Dave for posting it. I know that this dates me, but my earliest electronics training was building a simple vacuum tube amplifier in a 7th grade electronics class. That project is long gone but I wish that I still had it and the knowledge that accompanied it. My Dad still has a bunch of those old tubes in his garage. Maybe I can rescue one and build something with it. He and I used to go down to the local drug store and test the tubes together on the test machine that they had there. I grew up with Dad constantly fiddling around in the back end of a TV. One day he touched the flyback and took a trip across the living room floor. Scared my mom terribly. He never did that again and it taught me (at an early age) to be careful of what I touched.
I am still pondering what is happening on my little Light Multiplier. The rotating magnetic mass, like you said, has something to do with why it works.

Lidmotor

Hi Mr Lidmotor . I am trying to replicate your little light multiplier with no sucess . I need your help please !! I bought a center tapped motor coil . My coil has three tab the one im the middle has two wires . I get a resistance of 3 ohms from center to where you connect the negitive for battery and i get 9 ohms from the center to the other tab . I put the cathode of the led on the negative terminal with the negative battery . I put the emmiter on the center tap . i put the anode on the last terminal and i put a resistor on the base to that last terminal where the anode of the led is and i put the plus of the battery to the collector . It dont light up ? What i dont under stand is how to light an led across the base and the negitive terminal in your drawing ? I have always lit it with the anode on the collector . am i hooking it up properly . I have tried different resistors . No volts across the led at all . Now if i hook up this circuit like a normal Jt it lights ? but i know that is not the way you are doing it . What am i doing wrong ? Could you offer some personal help . please email me at fusionchip@gmail.com . I would love to talk a bit please .merrychristmas

Al