One magnet no bearing Bedini motor

[jonnydavro]

Hi.Over the last couple off days i have been testing the darlington config with some interesting results.
I found for speed and current draw,one transistor was better but what was really interesting was this.I use a 12v relay coil in the trigger circuit.Sephiroth discovered that if you use just the coil in series with the trigger circuit you can drop your amps and its worked a treat on all my Bedini's to date, anyway Xenomorph picked up on the fact that you could put one in between the emitter off T1 and the Base off T2.I have tried this config and it works i found better than the standard darlington setup and there is the added benefit off being able to recover bemf from this relay coil as well.
I have enclosed the circuit i used if anybody wants to test,but i think Xenomorph might have invented a new component.If you put this transistor setup in one package you would have a Darlington transistor with a voltage output.What you going to call it Xenomorph?
@Mark.Hi.Glad to hear your in business.Sounds like you've got a nice magnet and wouldn't it be great to see this on an earth battery.I think it's doable.Any chance of a pic.
@MWREACTOR.Thanks for your suggestions
@tai61.Thanks tai.My interest is low power motors so anything that gets the draw down is a step in the right direction.At the moment if i drop 1mA thats a 25% drop in consumption so ill look out for it.Any pics to show us?

[Xenomorph]

@Jonnydavro: Very nice that you managed to integrate this

I believe that with different inductances you could maybe "tune" the circuit for lower amp-draw by adjusting to different resonances. I wonder if variable inductors would do the same job as the relay coils? That would make it hard to tap the energy though off the inductor.

[Xenomorph]

One magnet motor scientifically explained

For the folks that still ponder about how this one magnet motor works, here it gets explained to you by an MIT professor in the course of a lecture :

YouTube - Lec 18 | MIT 8.02 Electricity and Magnetism, Spring 2002

[tai61]

mit,

[x, that was one cool vid especially for a newby,but i wonder as i am getting about 1.5 v out of my air core only when the magnet spins by could a window motor type coil surrounding the whole mag platform work to give constant power. got no more wire to do this myself,cheers tai
xQUOTE=Xenomorph;53683]For the folks that still ponder about how this one magnet motor works, here it gets explained to you by an MIT professor in the course of a lecture :

YouTube - Lec 18 | MIT 8.02 Electricity and Magnetism, Spring 2002[/QUOTE]

[Xenomorph]

but i wonder as i am getting about 1.5 v out of my air core only when the magnet spins by could a window motor type coil surrounding the whole mag platform work to give constant power. got no more wire to do this myself,

Remember that Lenz law will work against the rotation of the magnet when you do that. There is a sweet spot where you can extract some energy (constantly) without stalling the magnets rotation too much.

In my experience only coils that are perpendicular to the magnets spinning axis deliver the highest output. Coils that are put around the magnet (parallel to it) do hardly give off any energy, since their area is not being permeated with enough flux. The flux vector is pointing in a 90 degree angle from the rotation axis away from the magnet.

I recommend you to experiment with collecting the energy in caps and then discharging it in a timed fashion. Thats the only way to minimize the lenz effect.

[CosmicFarmer]

Allright, some basic results from a 3 day test.

First I tried the circuit with ccw rotation and the choke relay and caps. Over the course of 2 days (stopping at night, its noisy for neighbors) I was able to charge the charge battery from 12.16 to 12.42 volts, a gain of .26v, with an average current in of .01 - .04 a measured with craftsman clamp meter. The discharge battery discharged from 12.79 to 12.58, with a loss of .21 ... In the morning the batteries read 12.39 for charge and 12.63 for run, for a net gain of .23 v from a net loss of .16 v. .07 v from thin air?

Then I spun the magnet clockwise. Multiple periods of several hours straight the charge battery did not charge nor did the discharge battery drop any volts. It seemed that it was running for free. When I first spun the magnet there was a normal drop in voltage from 12.67 (run) to 12.59 (2 hours) but then for 3 hours the voltage remained at 12.59. Then it went down .01 every 30 or so minutes, untill it gave up and fell over :-)

Then I decided to add a northern copper ground rod connection to the + of the charge battery and a southern "zinc" ground strip connection to the - of the run battery. I say "zinc" because it was supposedly zinc coated... This ground battery gets me if I remember correctly .6 v unhooked.

I noticed when I hooked up the batteries before the run that current was flowing when the magnet wasnt moving. Both batteries were being discharged slowly! I continued the experiment, with counter clockwise mag rotation, but had to stop because charging battery dropped back down to 12.16, and I lost all I gained in a few hours. Run battery dropped down to 12.45 from 12.62.

Next I will switch the ground connections, maybe that will help, There is a possibility that I mixed the wires up and had em backwards but I triple checked to make sure.

Here is my report. ( I tried to format with spaces but it didnt work)

Time Charge batt (volts/amps) Run batt (volts/amps) Notes
1800 12.16 / .03 12.79/ .03 Start, ccw, 600 o
1827 12.22 / .04 12.67/ .03 1.945k o
1919 12.29 /.02-.04 12.63/ .03
2030 12.32 / .04 12.63/ .04 (no change?)
2200 12.37 / .03-.07 12.60/ .03-.07
2349 12.42 12.59 stopped for night.
------------------------
1200 12.42 12.71 bounceback
1257 12.39/ .03-.07 12.57/ .03-.07 Diffuculty starting.
1308 12.38/ .01 12.61 ccw rotation
1336 12.37/ .01-.04 12.62/.02-.03 keeps falling over
1503 12.38/.01-.03 12.63/.01-.02 2.8k o
1529 12.38 12.63 Fell over.
-------------------------
1641 12.36/.01-.03 12.67/.00 .02 Start. CW rotation.
1853 12.40/.00-.03 12.59/.02-.03
2034 12.42/ .02-.03 12.57/ .00-.01
2157 12.42 12.58 Increased resistance?
--------------------------
0000 12.39 12.63 Bounceback
1500 12.35 12.65 Bounceback
--------------------------
1530 12.34 12.62 Added grounds, start.
1555 ---- no data ----
1630 12.25/.05-.08 12.49/ .05-.07 Current draw up
1645 12.22/ .05-.07 12.47/ .05 .1 Both batteries discharge
1800 12.16/ .05-.07 12.45/ .07-.9 Stopped.
---------------------------

How I measured current:

Took ammeter and held next to - wire on battery. Waited for numbers to stablize. Pressed zero button. saw 00.00 hold for 2 seconds. clipped onto wire. Waited 5 seconds, took average. Un-zeroed, repeat for other wire.


I started the motor with usually around 600 ohms on pot, then clipped ammeter on run battery - lead, and adjusted untill I could get it as low as I could. Got it to 00.00 sometimes.

I took a fresh spool of green magnetwire from radio shack and stripped the 2 ends, hooked to voltmeter. Held it in various places over, next to magnet. even had the magnet on the inside of the spool spinning and took that measurement. Highest voltage was when magnet was stable on outside rim and I could put spool perpendicular for longer then 3 seconds, read over 2.1 v. when magnet was inside the spool, friction caused it to slow down a little, but could only get .5 or so volts. Another note, is that on the edge, the magnet seems more stable, but in the middle it tends to do the X pattern, and get noisy. I might need a new dancefloor, because it wore a divot in the middle.

Thats it for now. I would have completed the reversing the grounds experiment but I have finals, and I thought you guys would be interested in my findings so far.

[Xenomorph]

@CosmicFarmer

Your tests are valuable! Even though they are not a success. I am having troubles getting this to get real charge beyond the ordinary Bedini application.

I have not too deeply gotten into earth batteries, but

it does not surprise me that your run battery discharged, because

ONLY if your earth battery would have a potential HIGHER than your run battery (approx. >= +2 V above battery to be charged)

you could expect any beneficial effect (like charging it).

The way you have done it is that you essentially "charged" mother earth

because your run battery has the higher potential 12 V as opposed to 0.6V (earth battery)

However a single earth ground hooked to the negative of a battery can improve charging of Bedini setups.
Aaron has done it.

[Xenomorph]

New pickup-coil

A new video i made of a new pickup-coil i just finished:

YouTube - BiggerPickupCoil

Looks like one needs coils with insane turn-counts (many thousands)
to effectively make use of the induction due to the magnet.

[Brownsville]

coil test

I had to play a little last Sunday. I wound a 26 guage coil around the plastic jar to check on electric generation. The coil was only about 60 feet of wire - did not count the winds. The coil produced a small voltage when surrounding the magnet and also when held outside of the magnet at a 90 degree position. The interesting part was the jump it took when held at about a 15 degree angle as you can see in the video.

Perhaps Xenomorph or someone else could see if holding the coils similarly to the vid increases the volts. Mine went from .2 to almost 4 volts AC.

Here is the link. YouTube - JonnyDavro one magnet no bearing Bedini - pick up coil

Brownsville

[Xenomorph]

@Brownsville: Cool that you experiment with picking up energy.

When you changed the angle, you altered the EMF which is partially dependant on the area being permeated by the magnetic field of the magnet.
As stated before, surrounding the magnet with wire is not permeating the coil area sufficiently (close to zero), because the cosine of the angle between the area vector and the magnetic field vector is zero (cos 90 degrees = 0)











Because of slight angular deviations in the magnets rotation, theta is
effectively always a bit smaller than 90 degrees, thereby resulting in
a small EMF, as you have measured with your Multimeter.
The highest induced EMF is possible when the changes in the flux are maximal
which is only possible with a perpendicular coil position.

EDIT: I have pondered about Brownsvilles obervation again and think i have found the explanation for his 15 degree maximum. In that angle the magnet can hit the coil with both of its poles while it transits around the center of the coil. It is sometimes left of the coil, sometimes right due to the bumping.
However the angle theta is small and therefore
the flux change is far from optimal. Placing multiple perpendicular coils will yield in higher output than
15 degree coils. But it is interesting trying to rationalize why this happened.

[el-tigre]

New setup

Interesting line of research this crew has going, great work.

Here is a thought for you for a potentially exponential improvement...

get some superconducting material and float your neo sphere above it in the Meissner effect

Meissner effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

mount your Bedini coil above the floating neo and pump a narrow jet of air on the magnet to get it up to rotational trigger speed. After that, if you can keep it stabilized, you should achieve extraordinary rotational speeds due to near frictionless conditions. I suspect the only limitation would be the switching speed of the transistor so get a fast one.

The next step for this apparatus would be to mount it all inside a collection coil.

[el-tigre]

Bedini Top

Gentlemen,

A little help please.

Based on your work, I have successfully built and run a Bedini top. It is still in the early stage of construction and has not been optimized for either mechanical or electrical output. That said, this thing really howls. The charge rate is remarkably fast as is the rpms. I have a laser tach but seem to be unable to obtain a good reading. Several times I have recorded rpms exceeding 65,000 and greater. Some times the meter reads 99,000, the max the unit is rated for. When the top slows down, I routinely read rpms descending through 30,000 down to the teens then single digits.

It seems improbable to me that I am generating this high an rpm, so I need to have some alternatives for measuring RPM if you can make some suggestions. (Although it did bump against my thumb for a moment and even though it has a smooth surface, it promptly sanded off the skin enough to make me take notice!!! It also spins fast enough to force the high powered neo's I am using out against the retaining lip. They snap back when rpms drop low enough. That is lots of centrifugal force considering the diameter of the top is only about 3 inches and the neos are very strong, which seems to confirm high rpm)

Construction is fairly simple and it runs very stable compared to the oval magnets many are experimenting with now. I am using a flat plate of glass above the bifilar coil and the top spins on that. It must be guided by an arm on the upper top shaft so it doesn't wander around.

I think I can explain why spheres and ovals wander around a lot. I have observed a clearly defined magnetic dead spot centered above the coil. When the top enters this zone, no amperage flows through the coil, however, when it starts to leave, the coil triggers again and gives the top a kick outwards thus exagerating the eliptical orbit. I achieve stability by forcing the top to stay in an area off center to the coil.

There are 2 or 3 sweet spots for tuning and I get max charging at about 150ma powered by 14v nicd drill battery. Until I put some containment safety measures in place, I'm afraid to test the top to full current draw and rpm. (I may have to buy a bullet proof vest to continue testing this little demon)

[Xenomorph]

Jonnydavro and others including myself have more stable rotations with lower voltages like 2-3 Volt , you might wanna try that. A high rotation speed also draws a lot more current, so depending on what you wanna do (lift off or something) that can be an adverse effect or help you get this thing to become a projectile.

[CosmicFarmer]

@El-tigre : You seem to have a most awesome grinder. I hope you used some really hard thick glass for that table because in 3 days what I had was ground to bits almost.

When I get some time I`ll just do the negative ground like advised but for now its kinda busy. I guess if you hooked up a load to an externally made pickup coil it would slow the magnet down, but I heard a cap wouldn`t? and arent people having trouble keeping fluffy voltage off of cap charged batteries?
hmm.
one idea a friend of mine had was use something like these rotating stones as jewelery somehow and use that jewlery to activate some sort of automatic door, like at an exclusive club. Example might be in a certain club the door would only open when your magnet was 3200 rpm or something, and another one much faster. So you would have to use that top idea that el-tigre was making, but have a clear area close to the magnet, and some how make it all wearable, like circuits in clothing. Thats not too crazy is it?



more seriously, how was I able to get that .13 volts before I added the grounds? You think a combo of fluffy voltage, and dead batteries charging faster then full ones discharge? but thats a significant number. Same batterys 12v 4.5ah .

Confounding.

[Xenomorph]

@CosmicFarmer:

how was I able to get that .13 volts before I added the grounds? You think a combo of fluffy voltage, and dead batteries charging faster then full ones discharge?

You have not mentioned where you actually tapped the energy to charge the battery, i assumed you talk about the typical off-collector-radiant-charging.
That charge is not fluffy at all !
I was referring to make use of the magnets motion to tap additional energy on top of the charging battery from the collector by using aircore pickup coils and this charging circuit turned out to be somewhat fluffy.
But the reason for that is that it is a long road to narrow in on wire gauge, turn count, capacitor choice, discharge interval etc.
I dont see any reason why this shouldnt work with the right specs.