One magnet no bearing Bedini motor

[MileHigh]

You are absolutely right that the magnetic field is shaped like a torroid/donut. However you seem to be implying that there is a much weaker magnetic field in the "dead zone" a.k.a. the "hole". The magentic field is perfectly strong in the hole of the donut.

[synchro]

Johnnblade.

Johnnblade has posted four new single magnet Bedini videos on youtube, and announced his new forum membership. Welcome to Energeticforum Johnnblade!

[el-tigre]

dead zone discussions

You are absolutely right that the magnetic field is shaped like a torroid/donut. However you seem to be implying that there is a much weaker magnetic field in the "dead zone" a.k.a. the "hole". The magentic field is perfectly strong in the hole of the donut.

Perhaps the field strength is not the issue, maybe the field orientation is the culprit here. As the lines of force rise from the coil core, they are perpendicular to the relatively concentrated rotor field lines and the intersection of the 2 fields at that exact point may be producing a cancellation effect directly over the core. (Halbach effect?)

In either case, I will still hypothesize that a minimum core size will reduce the dead zone effect with associated operational benefits. I hope someone has a chance to test this out and confirm or reject it experimentally as I don't have much time to experiment and make modifications these days.

[MileHigh]

El-Tigre: Before you anybody builds a new coil I have a question for you. Is your drive coil perfectly vertical and underneath a more or less flat surface that your magnet spins on? If the answer is yes, then try this: Try to tilt the drive coil between 10 and 15 degrees away from vertical while keeping the flat surface in the original orientation. See what happens to the "dead spot" near the center axis of the coil.

[jonnydavro]

@Milehigh.Hi.I think is whats happening is the rotor magnet triggers the transistor when it is over the winding and not dead centred so there is probably no dead spot as such it is just a timing thing.My free roaming rotor seems to always find a spot to rotate off centre and the fact that it is free roaming suggests that this spot is the ideal place for it governed by the shapes of the interacting magnetic fields and stable triggering.No mystery really.
El-tigre's coil design may allow more uniform triggering accross the diameter of the coil which would be a good thing.Regards jonny

[Xenomorph]

I agree with Jonny, the timing is what positions the magnet and the coil is a dynamic (electro-)magnet, it cant be viewed like a permanent magnet (only per energizing phase differential).
That could maybe be shown by introducing a very low capacity cap into the base trigger line of the transistor to delay the magnets trigger signal and see if it changes its preferred spinning position.

[Lidmotor]

How to start the Snake Egg

@El-tigre.I too have noticed a bit of a dead spot in the centre of the coil but when i run the snake egg "X" spinner with a core,it works best when centred but my other magnets prefer to be near the side so it would be really interesting to wind a coil like you suggest and see what happens.
@Synchro.Clanzer makes some great informative vids and the halbach array does not look to complicated so i may try and make one and build some adjustment in maybe.Thanks for the orientation info.Regards jonny.
@jurmb84 Hi.Thanks for taking the time and effort,not to mention the expense to join us in our experiments.
With regards to your motor,if it can run a sphere,it should be able to run the snake egg.I think your problem may be one of two things or both.
The first could be as Xenomorph mentioned the need for a real good two handed spin.How pirate and Lidmotor can start there's with one hand is a mystery to me as i have to use two.
The 2nd thing it could be and this is what i suspect is the problem is your core may be to close to the snake egg.The snake egg will be attracted to the core and it needs to stand upright but if the magnetic attraction between egg and core are to much then the egg won't spin up.I suggest sliding your core down a bit and see how you go.Let us know how you get on.Regards jonny

@jurmb84 & Jonny-----I have to spin my egg counterclockwise to get it started. It may or may not have to do with the coriolis effect. I live in California (northern hemisphere). My other magnet rotors all start clockwise just fine. My coils are all wound clockwise. The snake egg is not that easy to start and I have gone away from it like most everyone else has. It is a very facinating thing to watch though standing straight up.

@el-tigre ----The hole in the middle of the coil is a big question worth looking into more. I bought and studied the "TOP SECRET" novelty toy that is discussed on page one of this thread. That uses a small bifilar coil wrapped on a very thin solid core. The "dead" spot is avoided with a small bump in the middle of the dish that keeps the little rotor away from it.

Cheers,

Lidmotor

[JohnnBlade]

Greets members

Johnnblade has posted four new single magnet Bedini videos on youtube, and announced his new forum membership. Welcome to Energeticforum Johnnblade!

Hi Synchro, and JonnyDavro, and You

I finally got post rights

thnx for the warm welcome and for the tip about this forum, im still new to this Bedini motor setup, but i will do my best to test it and share it with you all


here is where i will be posting all my vids
YouTube - JohnnBlade's Channel

Greets JB

[MileHigh]

Jonny Davro, you came the closest to explaining the dead spot in the center.

The answer is all related to geometry. If the magnet is spinning directly over the center of a perfectly vertical bifilar coil then the pick-up coil will not generate any current to turn on the transistor. There will be no changing magnetic flux through the pick-up coil as the magnet spins, and hence no current generation in the coil. In contrast, when the spinning magnet is off center, then the pick-up coil will see changing magnetic flux and will produce alternating current which will switch on the transistor.

Even if you solve the pick-up coil problem then the magnet will still not spin when directly over the center of the driving coil. In this case when the driving coil fires it will not be able to produce torque on the magnet about it's vertical axis. The only way to generate torque to make the magnet spin is to move it away from the center axis of the driving coil.

The whole setup relies on geometrical asymetery to work. What's also interesting is how the pick-up coil can still fire the transistor with a very weak signal being picked up from the spinning magnet.

There is an interesting implication to all of this. If you had a vertically oriented pick-up coil off to the side of the spinning surface it would overcome the symmetry problem and the magnet would spin anywhere on the spinning surface as long as you can also solve the driver coil problem. The pick-up coil does not have to be many turns of wire. By the same token, one or two driver coils in a vertical orientation off to the side of the spinning surface would be much more effecient than a driver coil underneath the spinning surface, and chances are you could get much higher RPMs with this type of setup.

That's why I suggested simply tilting the driver/pick-up coil by five or ten degrees off of vertical. That breaks the symmetry and chances are the magnet will spin anywhere on the spinning surface.

[retrod]

@ All,
For your amusement, a vacuum tube version of the circuit. What will I think of next ?
YouTube - Retro Vacuum Tube Bedini One Magnet no bearing motor.....6C4 Triode

Dave

[JohnnBlade]

My XP with Magnet motor




When i started i used simple speaker wire to make a coil (i did not know who Bedini was, only JonnyDavro and his coil and magnets) so i tryed a proof of test, and it worked, i had no circuit, pure 1 adaptor of 2.9/3.3v - 300ma max (cause my batteries keep getting emtpy, or gettin to hot - but only success with adapter 2.9/3.3v 300ma max) my coil used about 65ma and and with coil on adapter i measured a voltage of 0.23v

when by accident i left my levitron magnet to close i got a higher reading then first while testing, so i turned the glass with the donut magnet
and i got a slower spin of the sphere, and at the same time a higher voltage
and while checking i saw that the high voltage comes up from the sphere being little unstable, so i kept it a little unstable to get more voltage,
for me its like the more voltage the better since in new to this Technology

so now im using only a few capacitors wich im still testing
and 1 diode and hooked it it up to my BOE board and i got a higher avg peaks ranging from 0.10 to 0.5 v max 0.7v (and again i did not measure any current) but atleast i got my personal record of gettin more voltage


sofare i have not been able to run this off batteries, only an adaptor
but, what i do notice is that when a magnet comes close to the coil with power on it, the magnet (or other magnets in range) starts to vibrate, so for me thats a good coil
even if the sphere does not move
to amplifie the spin i add a 2e or 3e stator magnet wich in turn also decide the speed and direction

my collector coil is a coil that i broke out of an old door bell
but i dont know what kind of coil it is and how many windings
but is does it work sofare, and its in scale for the way i like it (but sofare coil core is like best at 2/5mm bigger then rotor magnet)
all i know sofare is that the core of the coil, and force will stabilize, reach of the sphere inc stator magnets
but outcome is how the coil is made (mine simple speaker wire, turned clock wise, on foil paper paper holder (karton koker in dutch))
and i think with a bigger core of the coil u can run multiple sphere magnets with control of speed and direction, and friction and movement to produce extra voltage (sofare i have had no Death point only a point whereby 4 sphere's attract eachother and totally stop spinning)

with my own circuit i got about max peak 0.5v, so today i made a wave bridge rectifier and it helpt to get my voltage to stabilize but it never came up with more then 0.02v/0.03v - so nex time i will test my old circuit with 1 diode and series of capacitors to get highest voltage straight from the coil and then use the wave bridge rectifier to how much i will get then

these are most of my XP i got from testing the 1 magnet (1 or more stator magnets) no bearing Bedini proof of concept

if you got any tips for me, that i can test then let me know them

and for my latest XP i made the circuit of the simple Bedini motor
and only thing what happen on batteries is that i burned my finger
touching the transistor (damn that hurt, transistor was frying hot)
so i used my adaptor again :P

let me know what u think

Greets JB

[el-tigre]

Coil design Variables

El-Tigre: Before you anybody builds a new coil I have a question for you. Is your drive coil perfectly vertical and underneath a more or less flat surface that your magnet spins on? If the answer is yes, then try this: Try to tilt the drive coil between 10 and 15 degrees away from vertical while keeping the flat surface in the original orientation. See what happens to the "dead spot" near the center axis of the coil.

I tried the suggested experiment. results below:

starting: much more difficult
rotor orbit: same to slightly greater erratic orbit
dead zone: reduced considerably
rpm: difficult to measure, audio subjective observation = slightly reduced rpm

[el-tigre]

Generator Design

Gentlemen,

I will be forced to suspend my experiments for some time due to moving to a new home. I wanted to leave you with my most interesting experiment to date in hopes you can advance the state of the art before I return. I have conducted a very very interesting and encouraging generator experiment and I hope you can replicate it and advance it. Please refer to the attached picture for explanation of the apparatus.

This set up permits very fine adjustments of the pick up (generator) coil by means of a simple draw bridge mechanism. The one sphere rotor is held in place by magnetic attraction to a flat washer underneath the glass base plate. This arrangement permits fine adjustments to the rotor location during operation. I am using 3 NiCad tool batteries 14v for all experiments. (They charge to about 16v and operate well down to 12 volts. ) One battery supplies the drive coil, one collects the Bedini back pulse and the generator coil is attached to a bridge rectifier and the output is connected to the 3rd battery directly.

This apparatus can generate over 30 volts at the rectifier output under no load. When you slowly lower the generator coil down to a 45' angle over the rotor, the charge rate is exceptional and the power consumption was steady at 148ma. Rotor speed and charge rate are governed by the lenz effect.

After charging the battery for some time, I then took the next logical step and connected it directly to the Bedini coil supply input battery. The voltages stabilized immediately and then held for a long period, slowly reducing over an hour or more. This is much much slower supply drain than normal. The test was discontinued when I damaged my transistor with a voltage spike from a capacitor I was attempting to introduce into the circuit.

I stress that this set up is NOT optimized for performance in any way. Those with greater electrical knowledge should be able to reduce the current draw on the Bedini coil and/or increase the current output on the generator side. (I do have a Sepiroth style relay/choke coil in the Bedini circuit) Mechanically it is primitive as well, so I am hoping all of you can replicate my encouraging results and build on them. This set up also charges a battery from the Bedini back emf at the same time, so clearly, we are just a few milliamps from success with this one.

best of luck...

[JohnnBlade]

New record voltage and im able to run a LED

Hi All ,

@El Tigre: Succes moving to you new home Greets JB

I made some progress again, and this time i made my circuit smaller, first im not using the wave bridge rectifier, since it drops my voltage

without anything, default voltage is 0.001/0.007v ac, when adding a diode (IN4001) my voltage goes up to about 0.03v dc, when adding 1 small capacitor (50v-1uf) the voltage goes up to about 0.8/0.9v and then hooking up my old joule thief to the circuit i get kinda stable 1.8/2.02v max

i think this is the most i will get out of this collector coil, and sending coil
in this test i used my 1e made coil again so send energy and since the coil is on a pen the core is smaller whereby it focus the sphere more better on the receiving coil, the receiving coil i got it from an old doorbel but its small but practical

atleast i got a new personal record voltage

(never mind my switch on my joule thief, its a short circuit, whereby i dont have to pul the switch, what made it easier to film )

here is the vid on youtube of my progress
YouTube - one magnet no bearing Bedini self starting got higher voltage reached 2 volt - JB

i will do some more tests with different things to see if i can get more power from this, ill be trying with stator magnets, and different coils and setups of circuit, and when i hopefully get more ill let you all know and show



Greets JB

[jonnydavro]

@Johnnblade.Hi JB.I am glad you made it over here and thanks for sharing and explaining your experiments with us.
You may be able to raise your voltage higher if you wind a new pickup coil which allows you to get the sphere inside.Plumbers ptfe tape spools are quite good and if you use 40swg wire and near enough fill it i think you will see higher voltages.Happy experimenting regards jonny.
@Retrod.Hi.I have just watched your latest vid and i have always wondered how a Bedini would work with valves and thanks to you,now we know.Great experiment and a first i think.What will you come up with next,indeed?Regards jonny