One magnet no bearing Bedini motor

[Xenomorph]

@Xenomorph.What you are doing is very interesting.The fact that you are seeing minimal/no lenz effect and generating quite decent voltages as you say for free has got to be a step in the right direction.
I was wondering,if you can do this with one coil,can you add more coils and do the same?If so and the lenz is still minimal,you could just keep adding them.
I wonder how a small supercap charges on your setup?

Hey Jonny,
yes you can add hundreds of coils if you want, the Lenz effect only hits when the circuit is closed which is totally avoided here. The limitation with our single magnet setup is just the space around the magnet.
I tried it with 3 coils that i squeezed close to the magnet
On a wheel-based multi-magnet Bedini you could add dozens of coils and use this charging method.
Or with the satellite approach of yours, since also the satellites wont stall.
I will test it with supercaps and with a positive earth ground in addition.
Also i will make a new main coil applying my new theories about coil improvement and try and different coil energizing circuit.

[JohnnBlade]

Hi Xenomorph,

The cap across the bridge rectifier is supposed to do what here?

for all i know is while testing and hitting some wires with another wire
and measuring i saw my voltage going up, from about 2.3v to 3.3v
so its good for me, the ends from the joule thief have lots of amps
that i can use to light up leds. but in the circuit after the rectifier i have more voltage but less amps, not enough to light up a light, but after my new test with the 2e diagram and some adjustments i can light a led unstable while loading a battery (in test i dont use a led - cause i want to see how the source batteries are doing)

Also the minus pole of the caps connects to the plus of the battery.
for as fare as i know i got my caps after rectifier hooked up to min and plus after rectifier and going to battery in right direction min on min, plus on plus


As it is now the current will simply flow through the 2nd cap and then choose the path directly to the batteries minus pole (technical current direction)

why i added the caps after my rectifier, is cause of after i added the 1e cap it boosted my peaks of voltage (2.3v), then adding a 2e i stabled my voltage more im using 2 small caps of 25v/35v 10uf, and they boost also
then when i got about, but when adding that ac/dc cap it boosted my circuit with another 1v (sometimes when i disconnect i get readings that are out of scale on my multimeter, so atleast above 20v)

(so in a way im now using AC as an earth, like Bodkins using earth)

But maybe im wrong.
I am interested if your circuit will show positive results.

while im typing this post, and i started my bedini 4 hours ago
used 2 rechargeable batteries from my cam (2.57v)
and expected that it hould drop after 2 hours (thats what it did on normal non rechargeable batteries), but now my voltage is swinging more hanging on 2.57/2.58v so for me it a strange good something that im still testing
but the 2e circuit if diff from what im doing now, i will try to sow it next time (in my circuit now, i do not place a wire back to main minus circuit from receiving coil on bicoil - its like a 1 wire trigger, and using a cap, and minus from 3e coil circuit as earth in a way to boost volts, and amps)


Disconnecting the secondary winding by a transistor had not worked for me before although Rick Friedrich has had a success with it.

Greets JB

[JohnnBlade]

@Johnnblade.Hi JB.Thanks for doing that test.From what i can see on the vid on my 10 year old laptop,the sphere was a lot more stable but the voltage was down a touch.What was the amp draw with and without water?The fact that it ran at all i find interesting and i think if you extended your testube down a touch and added a pickup coil below your bifilar coil it would probably generate quite well as it seems to be acting like a stable satellite but with the possibility of far higher rpms so hopefully higher voltages.Thanks again JB regards jonny.

Hi JonnDavro, No thnx

i was supprised to how stable the sphere was, but it dropped my voltage about 0.8v, while using sunnflower oil (not much only make the sphere soak a moment in sunflower oil, and i gain about 0.5/0.8v)

for all i know, on 2 avg batteries my coil draws about 4/5mah/ 2.6/2.57v
(with my rechargeables now its swinging between 2.57 and 2.58 after 3/4 hours using 2e circuit - but not connecting minus back to source battery. using 1 wire from receiving coil to trigger battery charging transistor)
my lowest was 2mah, but i need to start the sphere whith a spinning magnet.

the coils i used/made is from conrad (and they lenght is not much)
i bought 3 coils unwinded 1 to use a main coil, then used 105mtr of 0.20mm kopper wire for sending coil, and 0.15mm 105mtr for the receiving coil

during a small test bringing the tube down made lower voltage
bringing up more made the sphere go faster, and more power
untill to high makes it stall/stop

im trying to make a round tiny ball with coil around it and placing the sphere inside of it to see what happens

i have some rechargeable batteries from some rc gear, 7.5v 300mah
i will test it next time again, and see what i get, but im trying to put in as less as i can
(it almost looks like that when lighting a led (they use 20mah right, or 1.8v to light right ?)), that i could make the circuit selfrun,only by selfstarting it with a magnet, cause my charge in the caps load up fast in a way that it could be enough to selfrun without batteries (but that i must still test)


Greets JB

[Xenomorph]

@JohnnBlade:

I might have been confused by your unconventional way of drawing the circuit (No offense, why not to draw it like that? , f*** conventions hehe)
It is hard for me to rotate your circuit by 90 degrees in my mind.
The thing that i have meant is that i am quite sure that your cap charge will simply short, because you are actually connecting the caps positive with the batteries negative by opening the transistor (the current flows from collector to emitter and then to ground [negative], that´s the where the technical current gets attracted to. And the battery´s negative is the lowest potential in the circuit). I don´t think your positive of the battery sees much of that.





The green graph is the current through the resistor which is high
and the blue graph is the current through the diode into the battery (nanoampere or close to zero).
But who knows if there is a radiant component making it trough somehow
anyway. The simulator to my knowledge doesnt take radiant energy into account.
Just from the cheer circuit analysis, no current is going through the diode into the battery.

That`s why people use optocouplers because you actually don´t need to connect the negative to the kathode of the diode (emitterdiode in transistor) to create the 0.6 forward voltage, instead a galvanically separated circuit can control the coupler.
An example of that here : Optocoupler discharge circuit

Why are you actually using a 2nd transistor at all, to minimize lenz drag or because you wanna pulse the charge?
But hey its late and i am tired, sorry if i cant think correctly anymore and make a thought mistake here. Just trying to constructively assist you in making your circuit work as you intend it.

Regards

EDIT:
One more thing, i was really wondering what that cap at the bridge would do and this is the results of a quick simulation. Turns out to act like a voltage doubler, that´s why you reached higher voltages, but keep in mind that the energy stays the same the charge current into the caps will half that way.

PICS:





Or bigger in attachment

[Xenomorph]

One wire supercap test

@Bill and Jonnydavro:
I have tried charging a supercap (2.3 Volt, 22 Farad) overnight with the one wire method and it did not store any significant amount of charge unfortunately.
It reads 0.003 Volt now. So maybe the radiant spikes cant get through due to the low voltage rating.
I have tried now to use the cap i have used before and dump that via 2 diiodes into the supercap but that lowered the voltage to 0.001.
Bill, you have used supercaps before with your EB. What would you suggest to do to get a supercap to fill up that way?
I am considering maybe trying a 555 timer timed discharge thing now from the one cap into the other at maybe 3 Volts.

[JohnnBlade]

@Xenomorph, Thnx Wow you did allot of details work
nice tests that you have done. i will get more info on this Optocoupler discharge circuit and i need to find out more what this Lenz FX is

i added the 2e cap to stable the peaks more.

It is hard for me to rotate your circuit by 90 degrees in my mind.
you can turn the image 90deg in windows preview, or any image viewer

yesterday my batteries where measuring 2.57v, after like 3 or 4 hours it started to swing up showing more 2.58 then 2.57, and now this afternoon
it only reads a stable 2.58v using my new circuit




i did see that when i remove the cap going to the minus of the battery the voltage only showed like 0.001 or 0.003v but i can light up leds, when i add the cap i get like 1,5v on my meter

im thinking of maybe connecting the joule thief to the 2e transistor
since that gives higher amps

Q: does a battery need amps or volts to charge, or both


Greets JB

[Xenomorph]

Q: does a battery need amps or volts to charge, or both

The answer is both. Since you are converting to current with your bridge and the caps. If you hot charge it (with current) then the standard is to have the charging part (cap or charger) at 2 Volts above the battery voltage to have a potential difference that let´s the current flow, current should be higher than let´s say 50 mA (depends on the size of the battery).

Radiant charging is to a higher part dependent on the voltage spikes that hit the battery plates.

But for instance in what Gadgetmall is doing, there seems to be not much current involved. His capacitors read 0.9 Volt, much lower than the battery voltage. Enough to open the diode, but it suspect it is mainly potential charge that goes through it to the battery. I am trying to understand this myself and may be wrong with this assumption.

There is many threads here in the forums that can explain that better than me. Just search for "Bedini Cap charging".

In your current circuit the transistor will unfortunately never open because the emitter potential is always higher than the base potential. You would need a pnp-transistor to get it to work with your current connections to the transistor.

Regards,
Xenomorph

[JohnnBlade]

The answer is both. Since you are converting to current with your bridge and the caps. If you hot charge it (with current) then the standard is to have the charging part (cap or charger) at 2 Volts above the battery voltage to have a potential difference that let´s the current flow, current should be higher than let´s say 50 mA (depends on the size of the battery).

Radiant charging is to a higher part dependent on the voltage spikes that hit the battery plates.

But for instance in what Gadgetmall is doing, there seems to be not much current involved. His capacitors read 0.9 Volt, much lower than the battery voltage. Enough to open the diode, but it suspect it is mainly potential charge that goes through it to the battery. I am trying to understand this myself and may be wrong with this assumption.

There is many threads here in the forums that can explain that better than me. Just search for "Bedini Cap charging".

In your current circuit the transistor will unfortunately never open because the emitter potential is always higher than the base potential. You would need a pnp-transistor to get it to work with your current connections to the transistor.

Regards,
Xenomorph

Hi Xenomorph, thnx

when i tested the 2e transistor, without connecting anything to the base
i got no reading on my meter, but when i hooked up 1 wire from the receiving coil, i got a reading of 1.5v. before the 2e transistor the voltage is about 3.3v so its like half is being passed through

or is something else happening ?



Greets JB

[Xenomorph]

Can we agree on naming the components like i suggest in the attachment?
It is unambiguous that way.
Then what you mean would be :

when i tested the 2e transistor (T2) , without connecting anything to the base
i got no reading on my meter, but when i hooked up 1 wire from the receiving coil (L3) , i got a reading of 1.5v. before the 2e transistor (T2) the voltage is about 3.3v so its like half is being passed through

So you connected one wire of L3 to the base of T2 ?
Which voltage of about 3.3 v are you talking about (where was that measured) ?

The problematic thing of transistor usage of T2 is that you are hooking the positive potential of the battery to the emitter.
As you can see with T1 the negative potential is at the emitter.
So your one wire needs to reach a ~0.6 Volt higher potential than the battery´s positive potential to open the transistor, and maybe that happens here, but if that fires at exactly the point of time when you want it to, you know that better.

One thing is clear, that if you DO get a voltage onto C4 it must come from C3 and C2, because D2 prevents the battery to charge C4.

It remains highly interesting if you manage to get a charge onto the battery that way.
For the time T2 is open you will have a Lenz drag, but maybe the short transistor cycle makes it hardly noticable which would be a good thing

I have had good experiences with timed discharges off pickup coils to minimize the drag that way.
Good luck,
Xenomorph

[JohnnBlade]

Can we agree on naming the components like i suggest in the attachment?:
It is unambiguous that way.
Then what you mean would be :
i will do my best, since im kinda new to circuits, i only have my old knowlegde of circuit from like 15 years back im a pro C# developer now



So you connected one wire of L3 to the base of T2 ?
no i connected 1 wire from L1 with resistor R2 to the base of T2

Which voltage of about 3.3 v are you talking about (where was that measured) ?
i measured that after the bridge1, and after C2, and C3
when i disconnect C3 i get a swinging voltage of 2.8 to 3.3v
when connecting C3 i get a stable voltage of about 2.9v and climbing
when i disconnect my mutlimeter

The problematic thing of transistor usage of T2 is that you are hooking the positive potential of the battery to the emitter.
im just seeing it as an switch, and tried this hookup

As you can see with T1 the negative potential is at the emitter.
So your one wire needs to reach a ~0.6 Volt higher potential than the battery´s positive potential to open the transistor, and maybe that happens here,
when i measure the power on the base of T2 its 0.02v
and on the emitter of T2 there is a voltage of about 1.47v thnx to the cap C4
when i remove the cap C4 i get 0.02v again
is it possible that the volts going to the collector of T2
open up the T2 and lets some volts go through, cause at the emitter of T2 is a voltage of 1.5v


but if that fires at exactly the point of time when you want it to, you know that better.
One thing is clear, that if you DO get a voltage onto C4 it must come from C3 and C2, because D2 prevents the battery to charge C4.
i will do some more tests to whats really going on there

It remains highly interesting if you manage to get a charge onto the battery that way.
For the time T2 is open you will have a Lenz drag, but maybe the short transistor cycle makes it hardly noticable which would be a good thing

I have had good experiences with timed discharges off pickup coils to minimize the drag that way.
Good luck,
Xenomorph

thnx

Greets JB

[Lidmotor]

More on the Xenomorph "Hanging " rotor idea

Xenomorph--- I really like your idea of hanging the rotor rather than letting it run around on a plate. I worked more with the idea and found out a couple of things. First I found out that you can put a thin piece of plastic as a bearing surface between the screw tip and the suspension magnet. I just crazy glued a small disk onto the little neo and put a little lubricant on it. I think that maybe a thin piece of brass would work also. The second thing that I found out was that I can use a soild core coil easier with this method. I made an adjustable suspension arm to hold the magnet rotor far enough away from the coil and it worked great. I get better RPMs and less amp draw using this method.

Here is the video of it----

YouTube - Lidmotor TOP CHARGER with new top

Lidmotor

[JohnnBlade]

Xenomorph--- I really like your idea of hanging the rotor rather than letting it run around on a plate. I worked more with the idea and found out a couple of things. First I found out that you can put a thin piece of plastic as a bearing surface between the screw tip and the suspension magnet. I just crazy glued a small disk onto the little neo and put a little lubricant on it. I think that maybe a thin piece of brass would work also. The second thing that I found out was that I can use a soild core coil easier with this method. I made an adjustable suspension arm to hold the magnet rotor far enough away from the coil and it worked great. I get better RPMs and less amp draw using this method.

Here is the video of it----

YouTube - Lidmotor TOP CHARGER with new top

Lidmotor

Great work LidMotor,

With my hanging disk rotor i placed a donut magnet underneath it
(so u could place 1 under your coil to stabilize the your rotor)
if it doesnt affect your magnetic force

Greets JB

[Xenomorph]

Xenomorph--- I really like your idea of hanging the rotor rather than letting it run around on a plate. I worked more with the idea and found out a couple of things. First I found out that you can put a thin piece of plastic as a bearing surface between the screw tip and the suspension magnet. I just crazy glued a small disk onto the little neo and put a little lubricant on it. I think that maybe a thin piece of brass would work also. The second thing that I found out was that I can use a soild core coil easier with this method. I made an adjustable suspension arm to hold the magnet rotor far enough away from the coil and it worked great. I get better RPMs and less amp draw using this method.

Here is the video of it----

YouTube - Lidmotor TOP CHARGER with new top

Lidmotor

@Lidmotor: You have put a lot of love into perfectionizing the suspension with the plastic/wood and the adjustable arm

It really seems to be the best method of maximizing RPM without levitating it which at the current point is not even guaranteed to yield any output due to probable magnetic axis alignment conflicts.

@JohnnBlade:

So you connected one wire of L3 to the base of T2 ?
no i connected 1 wire from L1 with resistor R2 to the base of T2

Okay i misunderstood which coil you meant.
Well that surprises me, L1 will then have to have a peak of battery voltage + 0.4 Volt minimum when it swings in the positive region.
I have never measured anything higher than 1 Volt in the primary coil. So how many thousands of turns do you have on the primary coil?

when i measure the power on the base of T2 its 0.02v
and on the emitter of T2 there is a voltage of about 1.47v thnx to the cap C4
when i remove the cap C4 i get 0.02v again
is it possible that the volts going to the collector of T2
open up the T2 and lets some volts go through, cause at the emitter of T2 is a voltage of 1.5v

power? Against which potential did you measure these points? Against the ground (battery negative) ? Voltage is measured between two points, i am not sure which is the second point here, since a transistor has 3 connections.

The only thing that drives the transistor is the base current WHEN the condition is met that the base emitter diode is conducting which happens at around 0.4-0.6 Volts. Since we are dealing with fast voltage fluctuations you would need a oscilloscope to measure the base-emitter peak voltages.

What is your battery voltage? 1.5 V ?

@All: I have a charge rate of 0.001 Volt per hour onto the supercap with a 555 timer. So my conclusion is that the charge is fluffy (which is logical if you think about it, as it is mainly potential) and a better method to convert that to stronger charge current must be found. I have no idea how to do that at this point. Basically it is the same demoralizing result that i had previously with getting a usable charge off pickup-coils.
Maybe Bodkins and others find a way to make it usable ...
I will try to experiment with a positive ground as well.

Video: YouTube - 555 Dump 2

[Bodkins]

Xenomorph@ I have not had the time to charge the little 5v1f battery/cap to 5 volts and see what the load runs like., I got it to 1.3v before i had to go to work and i didnt have a load for it to try it out.
the problem I think you are having is that the cap dump need to be like a switch real fast and just over the battery voltage
Lidmotor@I remember you doing some work on dumping caps any advice?

the thing is Im charging multi caps from one wire and if the dumping is addressed we are on a winner.

[JohnnBlade]

Hi All,

@Xenomorph:
Well that surprises me, L1 will then have to have a peak of battery voltage + 0.4 Volt minimum when it swings in the positive region.
I have never measured anything higher than 1 Volt in the primary coil. So how many thousands of turns do you have on the primary coil?

i measured this by hooking the minus of the meter to the minus of the battery, and the plus from the end of L1 and in steps till i reached the base of T2

i used 105mtr of 0.20mm kopper wire for L2, and 0.15mm 105mtr for L1 from Conrad
- i did not count how many turns but i think 1 turn is about 8/9cm (damn, i just calculated, and if im not wrong thats about 1312,5 turns - i think im wrong ?)


from minus of batt1 to the beginning of R1 - 11.2mv
from minus of batt1 to the beginning of R2 - 11.2mv
from minus of batt1 to the base of T2 i get - 1.77v moving up and down till 1.83v

when i measure from the (-) pole on the Bridge1 (with the minus from my meter) to the collector leg of T2 i measured 2.9v stable (inc solar)

and from - pole on bridge1 to the beginning of D2 i measured 2.89v 2.9v
and when i stop my sphere/rotor, the voltages drops all the way to 0v

since yesterday my battery has not gone below 2.57v
i saw it wanting to go up to 2.58 but i gues after changing some things it went down to a stable 2.57 - its 2 x AA rechargeable batteries 2500mah each at 1.2v

when i used normal batteries i saw the volts drop allot faster, and that is without charging and same was also for my rechargeable batteries

now im also using solar to fill the caps, and hopefully boost some amps
and now im waiting sun to go down, so i can see what effect that has

the circuit diagram i added is what im running now
and its all just a rough test, of the way i would think it maybe could work

i will keep on testing

Greets JB