Bedini's "Free Energy Generation" machine aka "1984" aka "Watson"

[Shamus]

Yeah, I'm still here, been having to take care of lots of other stuff but the FEG is pretty much built although I may have to rethink the "magneto" section. Currently I have eight coils, each 300 turns in series wound on wooden cores. The magnets are very weak round ceramics, double stacked, but still very weak even so. Measuring the waveform with my microphone showed very weak pulses, but that could be due to the fact that I was spinning the wheel by hand.

At any rate, my motor section needs rework as well since the ceramics I'm using in a window motor configuration are not strong enough to run in a trigger coil configuration; I'm going to have to use Hall switching (and here I thought I was going in an easy direction. Ha! ).

I will post more when there is more to post.

BTW, I've only heard John talk about filling a spool in relation to the SG or SSG, never in relation to the FEG. As far as the other questions go, I'm pretty sure it's a fairly simple machine, it's just the timing of the switching between powering the motor and back-popping the main battery with voltage built up on the cap on the magneto section. Peter Lindemann wrote an excellent post on his understanding of how the machine works in the other thread ("Watson machine"); it's well worth doing some deep thinking on what he wrote about it.

[baroutologos]

Vissie,

too many people in here see themsleves as experts in the field and still they ignore very basic things that a first year electrical engeener student should know.
I as you, are not EE's so noob mistakes for us are allowed!!! But, as a saying goes, "Parachute and mind should be kept open". Bear in mind the Free energy production is a highly disputed area. So anyone with any views that are not accepted by mainstraim community can find sancturary here, being right or wrong (wrong most of times)

Listen what peoples say, epxeriment yourself, and draw some conclusions and move on. Learn from failures. Do not stick to dogmas. Inventors could be mistaken also in their views.Replicate their work. See yourself what is working and what does not.
Use common sense and avoid becoming too mystical.
If something cannot be explained simply then something is going wrong.

If am i allowed to give any piece of advice to fellow experimenters who spare their precious resources on creating something extraordinary, it will be those.

Regards,
Baroutolgos

[baroutologos]

Nivisser,

Working on a similar setup to FEG, actually its a hybrid of FEG and Kromrey's converter, my little understanding has been expanded.

I have concluded that the FEG or similar devices could never work if a ferrous core is not employed. Air cored coils are ruled out. If you want to catch up with my findings, seek the OU forums in Perepiteia replications. Last 5 pages.
If questions persist, just ask me.

edit: The more i learn, the closer i come to Bedini standards , in technical and construction terms. His explainations is of course another whole issue.

Regards,
Baroutologos

[baroutologos]

ok, here and back again! :P

Few words to catch up. Rotor 12 magnets, neodumium alternating polarity.
Prime mover unite 1016MY PMDC motor, belt driven.
Can achieve 1300-3000 rpm, depending input voltage.

Coils are elongated ones, finest quality low losses core, wound with 400 turns of 10-fillar 29G wire, @ 1ohm. The coils are in phase and series arranged (voltage added).
Coils output some 80 vac when magnetic flux is closed via improvised U core and 65 vac when in air. (open magnetic flux path) @ 2000 rpm

........................
So far i experience two distinct things.

1) Coils at short, in 1300 rpm + reduce motor input and cause it to speed up.
Current measured during short is between 1.4 (closed flux path) and (1.8 open flux path)


Trying to extract power
................................
While at dead short rotor speeds up and motor's input goes down, if i apply a FWBR and connected to a 12 volts battery, things are tend to become normal. Rotor starts to slows down and motor's input to build up.

It has been observed that by applying a small resistance/impedance to coils' output, this effectively kicks them out of the speed-up mode and works as a normal generator. In order to overcome this you can increase rpm to holod the balance.

Totally empirically, i found out, in order to maintain the speed-up mode and charge a 12volt battery, i need at least 200 volts ac produced by coils at open!!! This is huge voltage just to offset a small impedance.


Playing with Capacitors
....................................
So imagine you have a system that shorted gives 2.8-3.6 amps and at open 70-90 volts and still cannot charge a battery without cogging prime mover down.

After reading few thing about reasonance and rotoverters, i decide to employ capacitors in my system. Capacitors are connected directly to the two output leads of coils.
*** I must warn about the validity of my findings, since so far electrolytic caps have been employed in AC mode!!!

Puting a too large cap
.........................................

If i put a large cap, say 10,000uf, the system behaves as coils are shorted, and normal, rotor speeds-up, input down etc. Circulating current in the cap is the same as in directly short. Cap's voltage at terminals is barely there. Say 0.5 volts.

Putting a too small cap
..........................................

By putting a small cap, system behaves as open circuit. The circulating current in cap is virtually none, and voltage is same as voltage at open. (almost)

Somewhere, the fun begins
.........................................
For my current setup, (in non closed magnetic flux mode) when i go below 400 uf of cap, the circulating current starts to GROW! (from 3.6 to 4 or 4.5) and voltage to build-up at cap terminals.

This procedure requires extensive cap-tunning, a capacitor bank is a MUST, but since have not so far, i played around with what I have in hand.

By employing a cap of 260 uf value or there, i managed to achieved an 25 vac in cap's terminals and 4+ amps circulating in it.
The rotor was in a delicate ballance state that after that it starts to decelarates and input goes-up.

The scary thing
...........................................
I found out that if i employ a cap in that fine balance state, in a given RPM all fine, BUT in other RPM region it can behave a lot different. How much different??
Say voltage climbed in terminals some 90-100vac (higher that normal coils) and amps goes up to 7 or 8 or 9 amps!
BUT, it kicks in a DRAG as the rotor has ABS disk brake system!
It slows down from say 1700rm to 0 it 2-3 secs.

Definately not useful state there, but its weird...

Bottom line
..........................................

A passive generator coil's state can be remarkably affected by the employment of a capacitor. No to mention, since the cap charges and discharges, that means energy is actually harvest from coil, without to mess speed-up (accelaration) as bettery does.

So, i get back to Bedini's FEG setup, with more knowledge this time! It's quite possible that a "REASONANCE" state must be achieved and OU to be manifested. BUT, when i say reasonance, I mean not the electric reasonance we know in LC circuit, where impedance goes infinie. I use the term with its broader sense.

i.e. Reasonce in which state the maximum energy goes out with the minimum effort (best COP)

Bottom line
......................................
* You need a coil that under short speeds rotor up instead of slowing it down. (i.e passive generating coil)

* You need a single passive coil or passive coils set wired in that way so as to deal virtually, with 1 inductor.
I just cannot imagine to have employed 3 or more idenpedent coils, and tune them with different caps. - A nightmere indeed -

* A cap bank to adjust to certain rpm, the UF value so as rotor drag to be minimal if any and voltage x current at cap terminals to be maximum.

That's my findings so far,

Regards,
Baroutologos

[nvisser]

Good work!
Where do you find all the time?

[baroutologos]

I think a clarification of my concept under experimentation is that:
........................

The difference between a reasonant LC circuit as physics books say and this kind of resonance i am after is that:

" In normal electric resonance the cap is being charged by the current produced by the collapsing magnetic field of the coil - that stored energy during charge state - and in turn discharges into the coil. The procedure repeates until ohmic resistance dissipates all energy "

If in that circuit we take out the energy, by switching caps during midcourse (via a diode plug say) then the procedure abruptly stops.

....................

In my case, the current is oscillating anyway due to magnets stimulation, without the manifestation of Lenz's drag (very important). This i intend to extract if anything is to be extracted from there.

Further experiments
.....................

I made some more experiments yesterday. I put to the output leads (the two coils in series) a capacitor of 100uf (electrolytic) and in parallel a FWBR.
FWBR output goes to battery.

In total short the oscillating current is 1.60 amps (current setup) by applying in parallel the capacitor and the FWBR i managed to charge the battery with 0.5 Amps and still have minimum drag to rotor.
The other power was oscillating between coil and capacitor.

BUT, 0.5 amps of charge whereas 1.6 amps is the potential, seems quite low. I will forward with an improvised cap bank.
i was procured a whole range of motor start caps rated 0.5uf to 50uf.
I can make a combined value from 0.5-99.5 uf now.

My question: any experience with caps rated at 50-60Hz running them at 150-250 Hz ?

So for a couple of days to come, experimentation is ahead.

Regards,
Baroutologos

ps: This summer time, Vissie, while my girlfriend went to her mother and i am left alone , i have plenty of time to dedicate to para-scientific experimentation

[nvisser]

They say that electrolitic capacitors are good for experimentation.
They use oil filled capacitors on the rotoverter circuits. I cannot even find them in this country
I found a 3uf 660v ac 60hz oil capacitor in some old equipment, but thats it!
It is quite bulky. made by general electric usa

[baroutologos]

just go to an electrotechnics shop and buy induction motor run caps.
I bought today 9 of them of different value and i combined them in a draft cap bank.
Needless to say, i accidentaly touched on cap lead at 80 volts and my whole right hand was numbed. (I must be careful)

Further findings
.........................
I made a draft cap bank of 0.5, 1,1,3.5,5,10,10,20,50 uf values. And started to investigate the cap effect. I find out they are TWO distinct "efficient operation zones" that does not pose too much burden on prime mover. (prime mover shorted withou cap application speeds up/input down like G-field machine reports)

The first ZOne - from zero Uf and going up.
.................................................. ..........

If you start with 0 uf (open end) voltage is max and current none, naturally.
If i apply an 0.5uf, voltage again is almost max and some mili-amps are virtually circulating. No change to prime mover status.

By going incrementaly up,current starts to flow and voltage to drop at capacitor terminals. (As i said to previous thread, at 1500 rpm my coils output 1.5 amps at short and (edit) 59 volts at open)

At marginal 14uf value voltage measure (in cap's leads) is 82vac and circulating current 1 amp. Prime mover is somehow loaded though.
Input rises from 2.95 amps (12v battery) to 3.65amps.

If i dare to go in higher Uf, then current incremental increases, voltage builds-up and prime mover cogs dows!


The second Zone
From large uf value (i.e. a virtual short to coil) and going down
.................................................. ...................................

By employing a large cap, oscillating current is max (1.5 amps) and voltage at cap's terminals not even there. (almost zero)
By decreasing cap value current starts to GROW and voltage also.
The upper efficient cap value for my setup is 90uf.

At there the burden of the prime mover is almost the same as the 14uf value BUT, oscillating current in cap is 2.6 amps and voltage at terminals 32 vac.

Bottom line
............................
They are two cap zones i can work with. One with high voltage low current and one high current low voltage at same input cost. See concept graphs for my situation.

Question
.....................
Can anyone calculate how much energy can be potentialy extracted from my system?

Current orientation
.........................

to try to build a diode-plug circuit and, at least try, to extract some energy??

Regards,
Baroutologos

[baroutologos]

I made some more playing around with current setup, just to consolidate the first observations.

Indeed, no surprises. The thing is very predictable. At 1500 rotor RPM,
* Coils alone 59 vac and shorted 1.6 amp oscillating. (59 * 1.6 = 94.4)
* Coils with 90uf value 36vac and 2.6 amps (36 * 2.6 = 93.6)
* Coils with 14uf value 82vac and 1 amp (82 * 1 = 82)

As you can see, totally empirically the same VA result more or less, with or without the employement of caps.
The thing with caps is that they temporarily store (each half cycle) the "current" and that either way (with or without them) will oscillate.

High Drag Area
........................

As far as the amplification of amps x volts in the "high drag area" concerns, i believe so far its about a resonance-cummulative effect that perhaps does not add any energy to system, rather stacks each cycle and keep voltage / amperage mounting.

Your views please.

Regards,
Baroutologos

[baroutologos]

Some more minor experimenting, for those involved and understand what i say here.

This time a diode (1n5408) was employed.

Findings:

Although coils voltage measured with my meter is 58 vac at 1500 rpm, the cap behind the diode levels at 71 vDC.
An interesting thing also is that the time the cap is connected voltage in cap is launched at 110 vDC and if kept connected to diode, it fall gradually down to 71 vdc.

Caps employed are induction motor run caps 1uf, 10uf and 50 uf. All same results.

Question:
In 58 v AC coil's output, is it normal caps to charge after diode at 71 Volt?
during first application of the cap, why voltage in cap after diode goes to 110 volt?

An notice peculiar thing.

If the coils are shorted via the diode, the whole machine, hums, cogs and slows down. If coils shorted without any diode, the machine perfoms like heaven. Quiet operation, draw input goes down, rpm go up etc.

Any knowledge about that?

Regards,
Baroutologos

[nvisser]

Did you measure the dc voltage after the diode without the cap
If you use a full bridge the dc out will be squareroot of 2 x ac voltage
With one diode it will be less
I cannot explain the 110v
Your 2nd point are very interesting. I will try it myself

[baroutologos]

Usualy the DC voltage after FWBR is generally lower (My DMM says) than voltage on the AC side. But difference is not so great.
e.g. 58 ac could be 55 dc or so after FWBR

The thing is cap with a diode charges at 71 V. (levels there) but instantly, the moment connected, (in a wide range of caps) voltage registered is 110 v and keep falling till 71 v.

Regards,
Baroutologos


ps: Due to holidays missing, experimentation will be suspended for 2 weeks.
ps2: dc after FWBR = sqrt(ac x 2) ? LOL?

[nvisser]

dc after FWBR = (sqrt of 2) x ac voltage
(1.414 x ac voltage) if there is a cap behind the bridge

[baroutologos]

My mistake Vissie.

I have not yet utilized a cap after FWBR, only a diode and gives 71v (steady) from an original 58 vac.

Without the employement of any cap, just measuring the FWBR dc legs with the meter, registers some same voltage if not less in absolut values.

Anyway, i am gonna re-check it as soon as i can.


Regards,
Baroutologos

[nvisser]

Well I still think old school and that formulas cannot create free energy.
As I understand what Bedini does is to use high generated voltage only, no current to charge the batteries not with electron current but rather ions?
That surely sucks as somewhere they say that it is bad for batteries
I tried all his and Ron Coles circuits. It is very exiting to understand it and get it working but very depresing to see in the end that it does not realy create all this energy
Not sure why they tell you all this things and keep the real thing back.
Then you get this guys like the Dude etc. that got their own website to help mankind with Bedini`s circuits, but they still cannot realy tell you how to do it!
Cheers from pissed off Vissie