Bedini's "Free Energy Generation" machine aka "1984" aka "Watson"

[baroutologos]

I feel your frustration Vissie.

Sometimes i feel over-frustrated also. Why while this technology is so primitive and old, someone cannot really tells us how to do it exactly, rather than giving abstract clues and chinese wisdom?

No matter the techology used, radiant or just lenz'less action, amperage should be harvested at the very end. No amps - no power.

Let's just focus at extracting the amps out.

Regards,
Baroutologos

[nvisser]

Here is an easy circuit to tap resonance (like the diode plug)

[Tecstatic]

Here is an easy circuit to tap resonance (like the diode plug)

Hi nvisser

If you refer to Hectors diode plug, I'm not sure you are completely right.

The only switched circuit I know of, which does not reflect back to the source, is Hectors diode plug.

To my understanding the circuit you show, and the AV plug are clipping circuits just removing a bit of the energy not to detune, but I consider this not optimal. The diode plug can harvest up to 40% of the circulating energy without detuning the circuit ( according to Hector ).

Then there are the circuits with the load included in the resonant circuit, like Hectors light bulb with the rotoverter, and also Rosemary's circuit.

So far I consider the diode plug the best solution, unfortunately not suited for high frequency circuits like Dr. Stifflers devices.

If I'm wrong with this, please enlighten me.

I have not tried Hectors diode plug - yet.

This is why I will make my experimenters set, as I will support a range of Hectors experiments and also some motors. Obviously my thread dies in peace, and it is OK, as it will save me some time.

Maybe someone thinks this set is just ordinary thinking leading nowhere. The circuits is not special in itself, but added to the experiments the whole setup is not ordinary.

Good luck with your future experiments

Eric

[nvisser]

Hi Eric
Thank you for your post
The circuit I posted also came from the same place where they dicussed the diode plug
I also have not tested any of these
This circuit as I see it clips all voltage above 100v. The diode plug looks to me like it use a neon that taps above about 70v . Hectors will tap at 28v by using a diac
As I understands it they just use a fet instead of a diode to tap with the big difference that a mosfet driver is used that generates risetimes of only 15nsec
and that means your fet will also swith on completely in 15nsec.
Acording to Bearden , bob boyce etc a very sharp rising edge are extremely important in this type of zpe experiments
I have already laid out pc boards for some of this circuits and hectors pc board is on the site. I must find time to build this things and test them for better undrstanding

[nvisser]

Allow me to come back to a post from Baroutologos a while ago.
He posted some statements that Bedini made
I am trying my best to understand this statement that he posted of Bedini
I inserted full stops and separated and rearanged the sentences to try and understand what he was trying to tell but he still contradicts himself
Here follows:
"The important part is reed switch.
The reed is under the coil and when the magnet is pulled into the iron it shorts the coil out. When the magnet leaves the iron it opens causing a discharge, reverse polarity and pushes the magnet away,
Very tricky to make work
See the cap across the coil keeps the read from arcing
need the capacitor to protect the reed switch.
LC circuit with the inductor and a small capacitor about 47 uf.
The resistor is just to bleed off extra energy, of no use
Excess bleed off through the 100k ohm resistor to the 1000uf
you can figure the rest out if you try..
Just think about it this way,
magnet charges the iron under a short condition
then the magnet leaves
reed opens,
coil discharges and pushes the magnet away.
Timing is the important thing here. This really a very simple magneto
engine.
You can make this machine if you understand the
timing and capacitance"

To me it looks like the sinewave is shorted when it reach it`s peak, with the readswitch
There is the coil, a 47uf cap, a 100k resistor and the readswitch all in parallel.
The cap is to protect the readswitch that it does not arc and burn and the 100k discharge the 47uf again between pulses
He says the resistor is only for bleeding the extra energy, of no use and then he says the exess are bled off through the 100k ohm resistor to the 1000uf
Now where will this 1000uf be situated
Is there anybody that can share some light onto this statements
I realy think that this was maybe the method to get this machine to work
Then there is still the question as to what voltage are generated across the coil to feed to the big popper cap?
If he used only the rising edge of the sine wave a diode will not be needed and it could be connected straigt to the big cap
Maybe that is the 1000uf and the 100k resistor

[nvisser]

Then again. Maybe this statements has nothing to do with this type of generator?

[Tecstatic]

Hi Eric
Thank you for your post
The circuit I posted also came from the same place where they dicussed the diode plug
I also have not tested any of these
This circuit as I see it clips all voltage above 100v. The diode plug looks to me like it use a neon that taps above about 70v . Hectors will tap at 28v by using a diac
As I understands it they just use a fet instead of a diode to tap with the big difference that a mosfet driver is used that generates risetimes of only 15nsec
and that means your fet will also swith on completely in 15nsec.
Acording to Bearden , bob boyce etc a very sharp rising edge are extremely important in this type of zpe experiments
I have already laid out pc boards for some of this circuits and hectors pc board is on the site. I must find time to build this things and test them for better undrstanding

Do you have a link to where you found the diagram ?

What is important with Hectors diode plug is that it has two capacitors each charged by a diode. One diode is charged during one half cycle, while the other cap is isolated from the source because the diode blocks. So the charge can be taken without detuning the resonant source.

Of cause you can not harvest so much energy that the oscillation is killed.

If we say we have an oscillating LC circuit with 3uF, then you can use one 2uF cap directly coupled to the coil, and two 1uF capacitors each in series with a diode, then you can not kill the oscillation if the Q is sufficiently high.

I guess it will work better with just two caps and MOSFETs, which only discharges the cap partly using sharp edges and turning off before to much charge is taken.

As said the cap discharged is the cap currently isolated from the coil by its diode. And the 2 diodes are inverted, so they each serve its own polarity (half sine).

The clipping circuits harvest energy while connected to the coil, which has a detuning effect to the resonance.

Take a look at Hectors EASER circuit, IMHO that deserves to be replicated.
It has the double switch to charge a coil. This lowers current like in the window motor circuit, and then the capacitor resonantly charged by the coil is discharged while the coil is idle. If you use a transformer as the coil easily found from the scrap heap, you can maybe even get a ferro resonant effect too, improving performance.

Hector says the coil will cool down with the correct capacitors and timing.

Eric

[nvisser]

Image:Zpe res collect circuit HV1.png - PESWiki
and I think this one
Directory:Rotoverter - PESWiki

[baroutologos]

Hello Guys,


I think Vissie that we deal with two distinct things there (?).

* The very fast shorting of a coil, when is "charged" or in other words in the peak of sine wave

* The normal apparent circulating energy extarction via Hector Perez's diode plug circuit.

Some poeple have combined the two approaches but yet cannot understand the benefits.

Diode Plug
..................
I think Hector Perez's circuit, if works as claimed, will be of enermous value.
In my setup i have an large circulating current with no Lenz action, yet cannot extract any substantial amount of energy.

Shorting a charged coil
...............................

I have contacted EVGARY yahoo group. Koneheadx, has been mundanely repeated to me that if i short a coil, right at the peak of sine wave for very little time (just a portion of the tip of sinewave) then caps could be charged at x20 without any additional load. (that what he said!)

A bastardized circuit for determing, WHEN to switch at peak, is given below.
It uses a potensiometer-like arrangement, a neon bulb, and some opto/scr conductors. (prerequisite is coil peak to be at least neon-bulb rated voltage)

MAgnet Top Dead Center and Top sinewave
.................................................. ...........
Some people argue that the shorting of a coil in peak sine wave can be done by having magnets on the rotor for timing. I think its plain wrong. As Bedini said its tricky to do that.
Top of sine wave is not at various rotor speed the same. (specially at magnet TDC as we look it when rotor is stoped)
Magnetic distortion effects are responsible for that. (Brushed DC electric motor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )


Anyway, the potensiometer arrangement with neo bulb is of great value for sensing and triggering (after adjustment) the top portion of sinewave of a coil. (removes the "when" to short problem)

...................

we really need people involved in this to try various combos.
Anyway, the first thing i gonna make (sice get back from holidays) is to try the Plain Hector's diode plug alone, then with the big cap in parallel for retaining some energy to the system and see.

Regards,
Baroutologos

ps: Have you noticed that, although in a quite different setup and mode of operation, Bedini's pulse discharged monopole fully isolates for non reflective action the charging part from the front part?

[Tecstatic]

Hello Guys,


I think Vissie that we deal with two distinct things there (?).

* The very fast shorting of a coil, when is "charged" or in other words in the peak of sine wave

* The normal apparent circulating energy extarction via Hector Perez's diode plug circuit.

Some poeple have combined the two approaches but yet cannot understand the benefits.

Yes, this is a two (3) stage process:

First you use the shorting of the charged coil to charge a capacitor.

Then you use another (partly) discharge of the cap to a transformer 1:5 winding ratio. The secondary of the transformer again charges a capacitor which is not loaded while being charged. From that cap during idle, you tap the energy with a buck converter running at a higher frequency, and resulting in the output voltage you want.

This is basicly Hectors EASER where the first stage is replaced by your magnet-coil-capacitor.

And I agree the timing is dependent upon components, temperature, RPM.

I have contacted EVGARY yahoo group. Koneheadx, has been mundanely repeated to me that if i short a coil, right at the peak of sine wave for very little time (just a portion of the tip of sinewave) then caps could be charged at x20 without any additional load. (that what he said!)

The gain for the circulating energy is proportional to the Q of the LC circuit.
So in the above example there is a relatively high Q.

Some people argue that the shorting of a coil in peak sine wave can be done by having magnets on the rotor for timing. I think its plain wrong. As Bedini said its tricky to do that.

I agree.

You see the need for a more easy precise control of timing ?

Imagine you add an optical encoder to the shaft, having a disk with eg. 2048 lines. The lines are read by two optical forks each having a square signal output because of the lines passing by.

The forks are positioned so that the square waves are shifted 90 degrees relative to each other.

These two signals can operate a digital up/down counter, so the counter value in this example resolves the shaft rotation in 8192 points. That is very precise, you can not get this precision with Hall or reed switches.

An Additional track on the disk has only one line (index) used to reset the counter to zero.

Now imagine you have a digital comparator looking at the counter, and when the counter reaches a given value an output is turned on, then reaching a new counter value shortly after the output is turned off again.

Also imagine the timing resolution is 32 ns, wouldn't that be quite nice?

This signal is the one shorting the coil.

Having another counter incrementing at fixed time intervals (called a timer) you can generate a timing resolution of 8 ns.

With a device containing 8 counter/timer circuits controlling up 24 outputs you will get a large degree of freedom to control the MOSFETs needed for this magnet motor/generator circuit.

This is the micro controller i have described in my thread.

As the timing is RPM dependent, now imagine you have a table in the memory.

This table holds for a number of RPM intervals (eg. 0-100, 101-200 ......or whatever needed ) each holding the numbers needed by the counter/timers to generate the desired timing for optimal operation.

-------

Apart from that, there is a lesson to be learned from gotolucs thread: Resonance effects for everyone to share, and DrStifflers thread. The tuning details are nicely described by the videos of gotoluc, and from DrStifflers thread we see that some tuning frequencies are much better than other frequencies.

The trick is make the properties of the coil/capacitor, so the resonance frequency is one of these frequencies, or an integer fraction thereof.

Having tuned DrStifflers circuit just off a signal generator (like gotoluc), the increase in the light output of the LEDs are amazing, from nothing or nearly nothing to incredibly bright.

This resonance effect is what is needed for the magnet motor/generator also.

-----------------------

This reflects my current understanding, if I'm wrong, please enlighten me.

Eric

[baroutologos]

Back to experiementation again!

I spent some happy hours this afternoon studying my coils with a draft cap bank so as to study resonance or near resonance volts-current alternating in coils.

My today experiementing was focus on coil-to-magnet GAP.
.....
1cm

Being my rotor magnets of Nd type, i decided to make the gap some 1 cm.
Coils were posing a minimum load to rotor by cogging. Current volatge creation is greatly reduced also.

Again, if i make the suitable cap combo, my coils at 2200 rpm, although far from rotor, pose a considerable drag as if were near it when progressing towards resonance.

3cm

At this distance, the energy creation in the coils is barely there. but, if i try to resonate the coils with my caps, again, rotor -after a point- start to have considerable drag till motor cannot rotate it.
Yes from this far!

5cm

Coil output are 3 vdc and when shorted 70 mA circulate. When resonating with caps i can manage to achieve some 30 vac between cap leads and 400 mA current circulating. But that's it. No more amplification from such distance.

That's all for now

Regards,
Baroutologos

[baroutologos]

Results from the workbench.

i decided for eliminating phasing problems to remove a coil and proceed epxerimenting with single coil. (400 turns ten-fillar 29 awg)

Neo rotor - strong magnets of alternating polarity
.................................................. ....................

With the 12 alternating neo magnet rotor, i can managed to achieved some 65 vac of voltage in cap and 2 amps circulating the system. (motor is heavy loaded that way consuming 4 amps at 15,5 volts).

Changing rotor
.........................
I though, since we are concern with resonance effects and not for direct energy production, to restore my old SSG driven 6 poles all N face out ferrite magnet rotor that its attracting force is a Joke comparing to strong neos.

Surprisingly, i could obtain at 2100 rpm, some 46 vac in cap and 2 amps in circulation in the system. But those are the top values. Rotor drag is baraly there, comparing to neo magnets for same ac/amps production.

So, for resonance effects i concluded that the magnets are just the stimulation, for acVolts/amps buildup.

(In neo setup top values can go as far as 10 amps and voltage as 500, whereas the rotor breaks as hell, so no use)

The peculiar effect
.....................................

In neo-rotor setup, if i aproach coil to magnet and short coil direct without any caps, almost 2 amps are circulating in it. Coil gets slightly warm, whereas core is cool. (coil resistance 1 ohm)

When i try to resonate in (near resonance) with a cap, in the same current circulating, core gets HOT. Almost burns to touch. Notice my cores are from audio equipment designed for ultra low hysteresis/eddies losses, high Q.

Again, those features are not stopping the core from getting hot when in near resonace mode. The same effect is there either with neos or ferrite magnet rotor. (so not magnets do that in first place)

This reminded me the Bedini's Konverter machine when he said the coil's core are get hot. The heat in my setup, DOES NOT come from windings.

Any suggestions?

Regards,
Baroutologos

[nvisser]

[QUOTE=baroutologos;65815]Results from the workbench.
Changing rotor
Surprisingly, i could obtain at 2100 rpm, some 46 vac in cap and 2 amps in circulation in the system. But those are the top values. Rotor drag is baraly there, comparing to neo magnets for same ac/amps production.

Hi
Can you remember what the current drawn by your motor was in above setup?

[baroutologos]

I have well documented my setups losses as well as current draw at various RPM speeds.

In 2100 rpm zone, motor with ferrite rotor (more calibrated that the neo rotor) consumes around 2.5 amps at 16,5 volts. No coil present.

With coil present unshorted motor consumption at more or less ame RPM rises to 2,8 amps.
In resonance mode, it goes up to 3 - 3,2 amps at 16,5 volts.

By the way, i am not that much concerned for now about input.
I have focus on output.

EDIT: I am confident, that Bedini's FEG with the 6 coils series connected, same phase, and the cap "adjusted so as to obtain a special signal", its the resonance or near-resonace effect i am experiencing, while coils at some proper tuning pose little load to prime mover.

The difficulty and gap, IMO, in Bedini's paper, is how to extract energy from that oscillations, without derailing the system and kick it to Lenz zone.
Regards,
Baroutologos

[Shamus]

You know I've looked at that booklet many, many times and at the end the prototype and drawing that he shows (page 32) doesn't have capacitors on it like he shows in an earlier drawing (page 25). OK, there is a variable capacitor between the "energizer" and the battery in parallel, but that's it.

The picture of his commutator shows that it's just alternating between powering the motor and dumping the charge back on the battery, 50% or less (from the drawing it looks like maybe 40%) of one revolution. He said you'd have to play with the timing, but that was the secret.

I've also heard that this kind of thing works best with flooded type lead-acid batteries because of the resonant frequency of the ion soup inside. Something to consider. I'm almost ready to get mine going, but I think I may have to change out magnets on the "energizer" portion to see results. Will post more when I have something to report.