Bedini's "Free Energy Generation" machine aka "1984" aka "Watson"

[Zooty]

Just a quick not on the so called cogging with magnets passing the core material. If the coil is open circuit during the pass, the net drag is zero although cogging is visible. Remember, the magnet is drawn to the core by the same amount of force on its way in as it pulled back on its way out. Please correct me if i am wrong.

[Mark]

Hi Zooty

I've heard that before too but I don't believe it. If that was the case then why does a Bedini rotor always stop when the magnet is lined up with a coil core. Take the coils off and give a light spin and the rotor spins numerous rotations but with the coils mounted stops and "locks" up on the coil cores.

Mark

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, I'm replying about the cogging issue, since the device i'm playing with has cogging, but it's fairly low. It's in the bloch wall shifting gen. thread and the device has bolts on the rotor that pass between coil/cores which have bolts for cores and neo magnet stacks at back of coil/cores, neo's oriented in attraction. Magnets oriented to attract, it stops fairly quickly, take the magnets off and it spins much longer, orient the magnets so they repel and it spins almost as long as without any magnets. It could be eddy currents or something causing the slow down or cogging drag, just like having a heavy gauge one turn coil.
peace love light
Tyson

[Zooty]

Hi Zooty

I've heard that before too but I don't believe it. If that was the case then why does a Bedini rotor always stop when the magnet is lined up with a coil core. Take the coils off and give a light spin and the rotor spins numerous rotations but with the coils mounted stops and "locks" up on the coil cores.

Mark

Ok, take in to account that the rotor does not come to a dead stop but it rocks back and forth for a quiet a while before it eventually stops.

[citfta]

Sorry Zooty

Sorry Zooty but your theory doesn't hold up in the real world. I agree it sounds reasonable, but actual experience proves otherwise. My Bedini SSG will only rock back and forth a few times before it comes to a dead stop. If you join the Yahoo Monopole motor 3 group the instructions are very clear that you have to remove the coil before trying to measure the free wheel time of your build. My estimation is the wheel will only spin about 1/4 as long with the coil in place as it will without the coil. This is based on actual observation. Maybe if you built a wheel and magnet assembly and mounted a coil with core near it you could come up with an explanation.

Carroll

[Zooty]

I have built a few and yes you are right, it's not as free running with the coils in place but the time it takes for the motion to stop is not that far off and like SkyWatcher says, eddy currents may be responsible for the rest. By the way, don't misunderstand me, i am not trying to force my theories down any ones throat, it's just observations i have made during experiments. Another factor may be added friction on the bearing as the magnets are pulled towards the cores especially on one coil setups. One way to put this debate to sleep is to drive the wheel with a DC motor and measure current draw with and without the cores. I agree, it will not be as efficient with the cores in place but can we really assume that the magnetic attraction in one direction is stronger than the other? I personally do not think so.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, I think you may be correct zooty

but can we really assume that the magnetic attraction in one direction is stronger than the other

but like i said, i think it's probably like those eddy current heaters using thick aluminum plates. However in this case its a piece of ferromagnetic material that still repels a little bit on approach and pulls back a little bit on departure and as rpm's increase becomes stronger. Now this can be helped to a degree with a heavier mass for rotation. Maybe a ferromagnetic material that has a high resistance to electrical flow might reduce this and would be a good experiment to see if eddy currents are part of the cause.
peace love light
Tyson

[Turion]

Progress?

So this thread was started, but as far as I can tell, no one built a Watson device. Or if they did, they aren't cluing us in on their failures or successes. I am in the process of building one now also. Just waiting for my motor to get here, which might take up to two weeks. Finding a motor that uses brushes, was series wound with both the stator and rotor wound was a challenge. The rest I have built and am waiting for the motor to assemble it all. I will post pictures and results here.

Just some info I wanted to share.... I cut my rotors out of 1/2 inch plastic that cutting boards are made out of. I drill a center hole (1/2 inch) on my drill press and then put the rotors onto my bench grinder in place of one of the grinding wheels. It has a 1/2 inch shaft, which is why I use shafts of that size in my builds. Then I can spin the rotors at 3600 rpm and use a file and sand paper to make sure they are perfectly round. I finished a pair tonight, and two is all I have room for on the grinder at one time. When I shut off the grinder I watched the two rotors slow down and stop. Then I put on two new rotors which were really roughly cut out and not very round at all. They made a heck of a racket when I turned the grinder on because they made it so out of balance. So I shut the grinder down to see if I could cut them out a little better on my scroll saw. It took FOREVER for the out of balance disks to stop spinning. So I started up the grinder again and timed how long it took for the rough disks to stop spinning after I hit the off switch. Then I put on the two round rotors I had completely finished and tried the same thing with them. As you might have guessed, the out of balance rotors kept going long after the perfectly round rotors had quit.

Some people wonder why this device has a flywheel. There I believe is the answer. The pulsing motor plus the flywheel act like my "out of balance" grinder and provide that kenetic energy boost.

Are any of you following Gary Stanley's motor where he uses two coils to negate Lenz effect? Very interesting stuff, and I will be using that setup in my build of this project.

My design won't be exactly like the Watson Machine in the FEG book. I will have rotor/4coils/rotor-rotor/4coils/rotor-rotor/4coilsSo/rotor-rotor/4coils/rotor. All of this is so my shaft will have some weight on it, so that when it gets moving it will keep moving!!! So mine will have 16 coils and six rotors. Should be fun.

[Turion]

Here is my build in its first stage. I decided to change my design some. Magnets at the outside edges of my rotors will help to achieve the flywheel effect I am looking for. Instead of having my coils between my rotors, I have them pointing toward the rotors from the outside, so magnets are only interacting with one end of the coil instead of both ends like I had planned at first. My shaft is twice as long as what appears in the picture, so I can add more rotors or the Gary Stanley motor to drive it. There are only eight coils in the picture. The other eight will get added tomorrow or possibly Monday. I have a 12 volt series wound (wound rotor and stator) electric motor with a 1/2 inch shaft ordered, and am waiting for it to arrive. I will use it or the Gary Stanley motor to drive this device. I am going to try both, PLUS another 12 volt electric motor I have. Lots of things to try.

For right now I intend to power it by using the simple motor circuit that Matthew Jones uses in his video. You can find Matt.s video on YouTube at YouTube - Simple Motor
There will be one circuit for each coil with a spark gap and a cam to open and close points providing electricity and the back EMF to charge batteries. 16 of those circuits. Matt, if you ever see this, if you look at my picture, the magnets on each rotor are staggered, so that they all fire at different times and there isn't as much opportunity to "lock up" the shaft. I am thinking about using the back emf from one rotor to power the next set of coils, which powers the next, which powers the next, and finally dumping the last one to a battery. It's just one of the things on my list to try. Don't even know if it will work. The first step is to get each rotor to work BY ITSELF to turn the shaft, then run them all at once and see what happens. THEN start playing around..

First step is to get the thing built. Oh, and since it appears this topic has been abandoned by everyone but me, hope somebody gets to see this some day, especially if it actually works. LOL

[nvisser]

That looks good. Good luck with this one.

[Turion]

Here's a link to my page in YouTube where I will be posting video of what I am building. I have most of this thing constructed now. I'm working on the timing wheel for my pulse motor and a few other things. Hope to fire it up in the next couple days.

YouTube - 11Turion's Channel

Is there anyone else out there who has built one of these things and has it working, or who has tired but couldn't get it to go COP>1???? I'd like to hear your thoughts

[Shamus]

I've tried to build this thing, but ran into some problems and now my lab work is on hold while I get some personal issues sorted out. But as soon as I can get back to my lab I'll be posting about it.

[Turion]

My startup is going to be delayed. My reed switches don't work and I can't find anyone who sells them locally. The packages had been opened when I bought them at Radio Shack, but I took a chance, since no one else had them. Got my order placed on line, but that could take several days. Meanwhile, winding coils for a Kromrey convertor, which is all I have left to do for THAT build.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi turion, thought I'd post this again here since its more on topic.
I have replicated the effects that this web page describes.
http://www.totallyamped.net/adams/page10.html
this effect may be used in that watson device. What I found is that when i used a standard steel bolt and wrapped a coil on only half the bolt and rotated magnets past the far end of bolt core away from coil, that just like this guy found, when coil was loaded or short circuited, the motor input was the same as no load freewheeling past cores. Then I decided to put another magnet rotor, just like were doing here, on other side of coil/core which was very close to coil on other side and yet it still maintained the same lentz bending effect and I was able to get much more output that way. Here is a cad pic of the layout that worked well.
peace love light
Tyson

[Turion]

That is good stuff SkyWatcher. RIght now I am done with the energizer part of my build, or I would be using that, but I will be replicating it for sure and figuring out how I can incorporate it into my NEXT build. Thanks heaps and bunches.