A problem with Batteries charged with Bedini Technology

[sucahyo]

I have been building SSGs and charging batteries for about two years, and the problem I am facing now is the fact that it seems that although the batteries deliver energy more than usual, the voltage level of the batteries charged with Bedini charger decreases under load significantly making devices such as mp3 players, not being able to function.

I think you have a broken battery. Maybe because of over discharge. Bomb it with straight DC or something like 1Amp radiant output and then charge it again with purer radiant charger.

I experience that capacitor like behaviour in my 12V battery that over discharge to 8V. Reach 15V standing voltage but have 8V running voltage. It become 9V after a couple of days. I bomb it with a combined output of two different radiant charger which significantly heat it up in two hour. It hold voltage more than 12V now. Never know that SLA can heat up. The opened seal keep popping the rubber cap a couple of time during charging. Do it with extra care.

I have experience a broken battery but have high standing voltage because my radiant are not pure enough. I got better battery running voltage (low voltage drop) when I increase the sharpness of my transistor trigger. But this after restoring/heating the battery with normal electricity.

I think the best battery for testing your charger is alkaline. The test is to see if your charger is capable to fill the allkaline with real charge. The alkaline should have a low voltage drop, high standing voltage but also high running voltage.

[Zooty]

I know this is an old post but some things mentioned in it got me thinking. One of Bedini's golden rules for batteries charged this way is NEVER draw more current from it than it's C20 rate. I have tested this many times. If i take one of my 1.2v radiantly charged AA's rated at 2000mah and run it through a 200ma load, it should theoretically be able to last for 9 - 10 hours. Well it does not. The voltage drops quickly and i get usable power for 6 hours if i am lucky. If i run a load of 100ma then i usually get 18 hours but i have a couple that will do 20 hours. Maybe the reason these batteries last longer like this is because the energy is being stored differently and it needs to be drawn differently. What Inquorate said about the capacitor and energy being stored in the dielectric makes me think that this is where the spike is going and its seeping out from there into the plates. Maybe it's transition to the plates is slower than a normal discharge. So if we draw the current slow enough to give the dielectric a chance to feed the plates then we get a constant current but lower like an electric buffer of some sort.

[elias]

Hi

Well, after this post I realised that the "charge" inside a battery charged with negative energy is really different, and a word of caution, I found out that it can destroy flash memory, because now the mp3 player has lost its memory. I charged its battery several times with SSG.
Also my shaver now works more than 2 hours, on a single charge, which worked only about 1 hour at first, but it has lost its circuitry and I had to bypass it.

Elias

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, good timing considering i am conditioning a couple 8 cell packs of 1700mah sanyo nicads ive had and have and am using them still for my electric rc plane. Now these packs were not that bad off so there responding nicely and when i alternate and give them a normal charge they have close to the same capacity for a given load, in this case a tailight bulb. I took the plane out today and it flew well though capacity is a little less than usual, still needs more rejuvenating. Also, keep in mind that at c20 youll get close to stated capacity, but it drops off big time at c1 and below, since this tailight bulb is just below c1 for my 1700mah's. So at C1, 50-60% capacity is probably doing pretty good. i'm getting around 70% capacity with the tailight load which is just below C1. Though in the electric plane amp draw can be up to almost 30 amps and so capacity drops off even more, probably down to 50% or less and i would imagine this applies also to new good condition cells. Though i am still cycling these packs and they seem to get better and better. I may have to buy some new nimh packs and i just bet I could make those brand new cells be better than new. Hope that helps.
peace love light
Tyson

[sucahyo]

I may have to buy some new nimh packs and i just bet I could make those brand new cells be better than new.

I thought you need high power? I suggest 2000mAh nicad from Auldey. Unless you don't mind a drop off power. Longer life means lower power. NIMH is no match against nicad in amp draw.

[Zooty]

A quick question. What should the normal fully charged voltage be on a 1.2v AA rechargeable battery?

[Zooty]

For the first time i decided to look at the input current curve of my Bedini solid state oscillator. It's a standard SSG circuit with standard bifilar coil, no core and high base resistance. It also has the diode going from emitter to base. I just put a 1 ohm resistor in series from the battery positive terminal to the coil and put my scope probes across the resistor. When i saw the waveform, it all became clear. This oscillator may create spikes but it is not efficient at doing it. I noticed a linear increase in current from 0ma up to 70ma for the on pulse then the sudden off where the spike appears. Now it seems to me that if the magnetic field strength is solely responsible for the spike intensity then we could generate the same spike intensity loading the coil much faster to the same level over a much shorter time. Even the briefest moment of high current will generate the same magnetic field but the on pulse will be much shorter and average less current over time. This is where the 555 may be able to help and i think using an scr with low internal resistance instead of a transistor makes sense. In theory, if we can load the coil enough to the point of saturation and switch off before the current has time to circulate the we get the spike for nearly free and i think this is what inquorates COP>1 setup is partially doing. I also think that to avoid coil saturation during the on pulse you would have to limit the input voltage as this would be much more efficient than using resistance. Coil saturation is a big wast of energy as the spike will be the same level from saturation onwards and any current over this point is generating heat in the coil. So to recap, Shortest, highest current pulse to coil to the point of saturation and also make sure the current draw at this point is in the C20 range of the input battery. I have also come to realize how important the rise and fall time of the input pulse is. A fast rise time means less current waste to reach coil saturation and a fast fall time means a higher voltage transient. As well as the magnetic field strength during the on pulse being responsible for the strength of the spike, the speed at which the current stops going in also affects the spike strength. If the magnetic field collapses too slow then voltage of the spike wont be as high and more current will be present in the spike. I also think that coil design plays a big part in this. When current enters a normal single strand multilayer coil, the current slows down due to the equal but opposite current induced in the coil. Tesla's bifilar spiral coil seems to address this nicely and what you get is a much faster current rise time in the coil. You can make the same thing by winding a bifilar single layer coil on a big tube. I'm not sure but i think the net magnetic field in a bifilar coil of this type is zero because there are 2 fields equal but opposite, one in each strand.

[ewizard]

A quick question. What should the normal fully charged voltage be on a 1.2v AA rechargeable battery?

They should be about 1.40 to 1.45 volts. Most NiMH batteries not up to par are that way because their capacity is killed due to overheating during charging or discharge. Also some of the devices mentioned more often use Lithium-Ion batteries and those are a whole different ball game in how they need to be charged. I don't actually see any of Bedini's commercial chargers like the 1AU even mention Lithium Ion - mostly lead acid and NiMh although the site does say 'also other types'. Due to the danger of explosion with Li-Ion batteries I have hesitated to try charging any with this type of charger. Just my bit of knowledge for what it's worth. I do know a real battery guru who says "most batteries don't die, they are murdered".

[Zooty]

Thanks ewizard

[EMCSQ]

...And I also have about 8 - 12v 7AH lead acid gel cells and all have held loads well when charged from the bedini radiant oscillator, not the cap dump method though, just straight off the flyback diode.

Do all Renaissance Chargers work with the 'cap dump method' ?
Which do work as a 'bedini radiant oscillator' as a solid state application and which
work with moving parts (I suggest SSG / Monopole).
Are batteries charged a different way using the 'cap dump method' or 'bedini radiant oscillator' ?
Which are recommended on a given application purpose ?

[Xenomorph]

@Zooty: In my experience a certain current is needed to charge batteries well with that technology. If the charge is too "radiant" then it wonīt do anything.
But donīt be hesitant to try to improve the current signal shape during the on-time as you describe, it could maybe yield a better result.

[Zooty]

It would be interesting to see what the input current looks like on other peoples setups. I haven't seen anyone on the forums mention it.

[eastcoasttinker]

lithum ion laptop batt.

Hi, I was charging my laptop batt using the end terminals. The batt is a lith-ion. It seemed to work for a while, then something funny happened. The battery shows a charge on multi-meter, but amps. Laptop shows the batt being charge and shows a % but it will not increase like it did before. At one time the batt kept the laptop on, but now it dies if I remove the power cord. What went wrong?

[Web000x]

Hi, I was charging my laptop batt using the end terminals. The batt is a lith-ion. It seemed to work for a while, then something funny happened. The battery shows a charge on multi-meter, but amps. Laptop shows the batt being charge and shows a % but it will not increase like it did before. At one time the batt kept the laptop on, but now it dies if I remove the power cord. What went wrong?

Lithium Ion batts have regulator circuits. You probably fried it..

[Slider2732]

Such protection circuits are a daily thing for myself, being as R/C is my main hobby.
The circuits protect Lithium Ion or Lithium Polymer batteries from dipping below a threshold voltage. When they get to that voltage, typically 3.2V on a 3.7V cell, the circuit switches the battery off.
Lithium Polymer (Li-Po) batteries need to be charged in a specific way, involving constant current and constant voltage at different times. The little circuit onboard is called an LVC (Low Voltage Cut-off).
You can snip the protection board off from such a battery and it will charge with the correct charger fine...BUT...you'll now have no cut-off of course. I've salvaged many a battery whose LVC had blown, though would never recommend doing so unless a strong metal storage tin is in place and it can be certain that the battery will always remain in sight when charging. As soon as a cell puffs up it's dead. Leave it charging when that happens and they can and do catch fire.

Li-Ion's will charge radiantly They are much safer than Li-Po. I have a set of 3.7V cells that came from a laptop battery, that charge fine with a simple transistor switcher type pulse motor. I'd agree that the charge rate has to be quite low, 200mA or so, rather than high rates or you get that 'fluffy' charge condition. About 2hrs of charging, while the battery sits at 4.2V is how mine seem to charge best. Also, if the battery gets more than slightly warm, any battery, then things aren't running correctly.
Before I knew anything about these circuits, I used to charge a 3.7V Li-Ion cellphone battery with a R/C hobby Ni-CD/Ni-MH charger ! Cut the LVC circuit off it and it all worked fine.