Bedini 10-coil

[ashtweth]

First of all, thanks for all the previous posts and opportunity to learn about about the Bedini 10 coil. I've been through all 332 posts here at least twice already ... I believe in being thorough ... before making comment. But now, I've really got to say what's on my mind. First, I'll quote some of the posts that support my points.

Aaron: post 22
I remember when the first 10 coiler was built and Peter and John were killing their hands winding those things. I have seen it run countless times and it was able to charge a battery bank that weighs probably 2 tons, literally. I've seen one bank power thousands of watts of incandescent bulbs and then have seen the 10 coiler charge up that bank from the other bank to full charge and have seen both banks charged to the top all without drawing power from the grid.
My response: I believe in John Bedini. He knows how to make OU really work. I'm sure of it, and I think with COP well over 1.

WeThePeople : post 48
This kit is NOT an actual copy of the REAL John Bedini 10-coil unit you've no doubt seen in videos. It DOES NOT contain pairs of magnets in North-2-North orientation to make "Sharp North's".

Ren : post 49
I have seen some information suggesting that they will be supplying different types of rotors for customers, depending on what they are after, the scalar north rotor being one option. My understanding is that the "scalar north" rotor has a faster switching time, but less mechanical power. So perhaps this is the reason they went with the neos and traditional magnet config. ... Once again, this is info I have heard through the grapevine.

TeslaTech: post 262
The other thing what makes me think is, the original 10 coiler from Bedini, had two magnets with northpoles facing each other and makes a “pinpoint beam” like Bedini said. But in the purchased one there are no option for this…. This circumstances could also reduce the effiency of the machine.

My response: The scalar north talked about here was also specifically mentioned by J Bedini in the EFTV documentary he made. He also said in the film that John Bearden had mentioned the importance of this ... things were changed for the 'mass market' kit version ... but why?

WeThePeople : post 51
John has every right to persue concept, and he may be under suppression to tell all
OK, he is MOST LIKELY under to supress stuff. So OK.

My response: We've probably all heard of what happened to Jim Watson. He was 'dissapeared' after he built a huge OU device. J Bedini also had pressure in his workshop, was manhandled, from those people who wouldn't want to see OU really in the public domain.

Some questions that come to mind;Could it be that the 10 coiler released has been 'detuned' to satisfy those who might apply pressure? (Bedini looks visibly nervous when talk of building or selling such 10 coilers on the EFTV docu)Could the use of sharp Norths dramatically improve output? (could be done by changing the magnet setup)Could the use of a larger flywheel, like the one by Jim Watson also improve output considerably? (could be done by adding weights)
I just wish I had the money to buy one and try to see if the sharp norths and flywheel mods would actualy work ... sigh ... will need to wait till I raise the money ...

I hope that now, that these kits are in the public domain, some kind of breakthrough will happen, and we can add the 10 coiler to other free sources of energy, such as solar, wind, etc.

Peace, love and light to you all.

I hope its not the case with the Tesla switch being reprogrammed, those vids went down too, if it is, ALL OF US can help John and find a way to let the cat out of the bag..this is what R and D is for. Thanks for the video Bit's

[Plazma]

"My Kingdom for a . . . decent ground . . ."

Hi Albert, Bits, et al;

Reference grounding, I've mentioned the horrendous soil/rock/bleep
situation I have here about getting a really good earth ground. When I built my office building/shop (I did all of the construction myself), based on some research ref a Gentleman named "Ufer" (circa US Army, WWII), I found that the concrete footings deep underground retain moisture and exhibit "ionic" behaviour - so much so, if one uses appropriate electrical interconnect methods as applied to the rebar during initial building construction, the entire foundation can be made part of a distributed earth ground. I pursued this concept and, together with buried copper pipe and a copper rod driven at the most ridiculous oblique angle imaginable (due to the rock), I obtained really good relative ohmic values (0.01 - 0.5 ohm) across several pairs of points around the periphery of the building. One leg of the building steel is connected at a point on the grounding grid far removed from the safety ground off of the main breaker panel as connected to another point on the grid. I use soaker hoses for the flower beds and shrubs close to the foundation so there is some moisture maintained and this helps the grounding a great degree.

I've also heard from various sources that ham radio operators many times have their own special grounding techniques such as pits of crushed rock and /or gravel like in a culvert that they keep wetted and, in some cases, laced with rock salt so as to maximize conductivity. The typical 8 ft cladded grounding rod (1 or more) is/are centered inside the culvert. A fraction of an ohm can make a huge difference in signal strength and clarity.

So, I'm right back into the grounding soup again with this newest lab and thanks Albert for the heads up about the possible importance of an isolated earth ground for the 10-coiler. I'm working on it . . .

Cheers,

Plazma

[Sephiroth]

Thanks for the vid... I'm a little puzzled by it too... it looks like a shot I would expect, but backwards? Like a mirror image?

[Plazma]

Tesla Said . . .

@Seph -

That's a great quote by Tesla at the end of your posts - question is, "When did he ever eat . . . ??!"

Best,

Plazma

PS - Tesla, the epoch changer - one like him surfaces what, once in a thousand years? Such a genius . . . and so badly treated and misunderstood . . .

[albertMunich]

The scope shots look like the ones I'm getting across the batteries - they look the same on input and output. But the scope has to be turned way up to see this. Normally there also is a "radiant"(?) spike on this - but it might be too small or too short to show up on Bit's scope video. Its a mess to capture this on an analog scope with a camera- the sync rolls and you cant stop this to get a decent look at it. And if you have to hand hold the camera too you need 3 or 4 hands.
Plazma, the grounding problem is also one of the things Eric Dollard looked into when he developed his Tesla research. It seems the Wardenclyffe tower was just the tip of the Iceberg- the really interesting thing was that the lower end of the coil was anchored VERY strongly to the rock underneath. Would be interesting to have a look at the rest of the building as it is now.

My own tests are rudimentary at best- I only have two copper tubes that I more or less hammered into the ground. Managed to cut off a nice piece of my finger too while doing that. BLOOD flows into this research!
But if there is any effect here I think even this primitive setup might give me some results. I plan to spend the day outdoors - and have a look into this.- trying even the most absurd configurations! I'll keep you posted- time to get this thread going again.
As to the question of the Scalar North- I would really like to hear what J. Koorn says about this. He made rotors in what he is calling the SuperPole configuration- I guess its the same thing as the Bedini Scalar North. Note that Bedini uses this very same trick in his "Audio Beam Clarifier"- two magnets put together N to N and a coil around them thru which he sends the "dirty" current of the cheap commutator drive motor that spins the CD. How this is supposed to help the sound quality of a CD is beyond me...
I pressed two normal barium ferrite magnets together in a vise and had a look at the field lines using one of these "green cards" that make the magnetic field visible. And indeed there is a sharp line along the sides of the magnets that cannot be seen on a single magnet.
I don't know how this affects the running of a Bedini machine. There is so much experimentation still to be done- looking at different core materials for the coils or at different length to width ratios on them.... I think I have years of stuff to do but not the time to do it.....

[John_K]

...
As to the question of the Scalar North- I would really like to hear what J. Koorn says about this. He made rotors in what he is calling the SuperPole configuration- I guess its the same thing as the Bedini Scalar North. Note that Bedini uses this very same trick in his "Audio Beam Clarifier"- two magnets put together N to N and a coil around them thru which he sends the "dirty" current of the cheap commutator drive motor that spins the CD. How this is supposed to help the sound quality of a CD is beyond me...
I pressed two normal barium ferrite magnets together in a vise and had a look at the field lines using one of these "green cards" that make the magnetic field visible. And indeed there is a sharp line along the sides of the magnets that cannot be seen on a single magnet.
I don't know how this affects the running of a Bedini machine. There is so much experimentation still to be done- looking at different core materials for the coils or at different length to width ratios on them.... I think I have years of stuff to do but not the time to do it.....

Hi Albert,

What would you like to know? I'm ears (and thumbs )....


John K.

[ren]

Scope shots (wasn't what I expected);



YouTube - 10 coiler Scope shots.MPG

Jeff

Hey Bits,

Check out Shirkleys scope shots. I think this is what Seph was after.

YouTube - 10 coiler dialed in on 12 volts

A great shot of it around 2min. Beautiful little ring down.

Regards

[Sephiroth]

Hey Bits,

Check out Shirkleys scope shots. I think this is what Seph was after.

YouTube - 10 coiler dialed in on 12 volts

A great shot of it around 2min. Beautiful little ring down.

Regards

Thanks ren! yes, the ringing is what I was looking out for. Still don't understand it though it seems to be signal reflection that comes from an impedance mismatch. That's odd because I only see it in low impedance devices, which should be more closely matched to the battery than a high impedance device.


Edit : just thought... it would make sense if the battery was a much higher impedance at that moment in time due to the battery's "inductive" characteristics... ideas are forming... will report back...

[ren]

Perhaps you are right Seph and it is an impedance matching thing.

Have you considered that it could be related to the state of charge of that current battery, perhaps even more visible in a bad battery? I think I saw the meter on Shirkleys vid read over 15v, thats charged in my book, but didnt he also say it was "donated" from a friend ie: very sick battery?

I know you've seen that ring out too, what were the state of your batteries in your opinion? Fully charge? Free cycle or brand new? Does your waveform only appear at certain tuning points?

Regards

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Perhaps you are right Seph and it is an impedance matching thing.

Have you considered that it could be related to the state of charge of that current battery, perhaps even more visible in a bad battery? I think I saw the meter on Shirkleys vid read over 15v, thats charged in my book, but didnt he also say it was "donated" from a friend ie: very sick battery?

I know you've seen that ring out too, what were the state of your batteries in your opinion? Fully charge? Free cycle or brand new? Does your waveform only appear at certain tuning points?

Regards

YouTube - More traces.MPG


Here is some more traces (across the emitter collector of a tranny). I can't get the same resolution on my scope to get the ringing, but I can see the spikes.

Jeff

[ren]

You need to zoom right in on one single pulse from there. Up your sweep time till you are filling the screen with one pulse. Seph had a good video of it here too somewhere, I cant seem to find it...

[John_K]

YouTube - More traces.MPG


Here is some more traces (across the emitter collector of a tranny). I can't get the same resolution on my scope to get the ringing, but I can see the spikes.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the vid!

They look similar to the traces I saw the other week on Kog's 10 coiler, but it does look like you are driving it a bit harder. I think if you increased the master base resistance you'd see a bit more of the start of the "hump" in the "h" after the coil discharges. You would drop some draw current and probably a few RPMs as well, but I don't know if your charging would be better.

It look like the neos flatten out the hump of the "h" anyway - kind of like "|/-\" instead of a "h" (sorry best I can do on a k/b)


John K.

[John_K]

Super North Magnets - Pros and Cons

...
As to the question of the Scalar North- I would really like to hear what J. Koorn says about this. He made rotors in what he is calling the SuperPole configuration- I guess its the same thing as the Bedini Scalar North. Note that Bedini uses this very same trick in his "Audio Beam Clarifier"- two magnets put together N to N and a coil around them thru which he sends the "dirty" current of the cheap commutator drive motor that spins the CD. How this is supposed to help the sound quality of a CD is beyond me...
I pressed two normal barium ferrite magnets together in a vise and had a look at the field lines using one of these "green cards" that make the magnetic field visible. And indeed there is a sharp line along the sides of the magnets that cannot be seen on a single magnet.
I don't know how this affects the running of a Bedini machine. There is so much experimentation still to be done- looking at different core materials for the coils or at different length to width ratios on them.... I think I have years of stuff to do but not the time to do it.....

Hi Albert,

Yes, I ran a few SSG with "Scalar Norths" or "Super Poles". It's not as easy to do as it is with "normal" magnet configurations, especially with multi-coil machines.

I did post a couple of Youtube videos (channel - koornj) that shows one setup I did and the videos also include some scope shots.

There are pros and cons in setting up the magnets this way. Each pro has it's own con IMO - Firstly, you get less draw current because the transistor "on" time is shorter, but because the North magnetic beam is narrower you don't get as much "push" on the rotor when the transistor fires and the coil energizes. Conversely when the transistor turns off, the next magnet is not "sucked in" as strong. This results in lower RPM and less REPM (radiant events per minute).

Next, you can space the magnets closer together because the magnetic fields from the neighboring magnets don't overlap as much. But not too close, because remember that in this arrangement you have South fields at 90 degrees to the "super" North fields that push against each other that create a "super" South field with their neighboring magnets. JB says that it is this "Scalar South" field that is driving the wheel, so you need to experiment with what the right magnet spacing is.

Next, the amount of torque is generally less because of the smaller "push" caused by the narrower beam, but this can be improved with the extra magnets on the rotor, which creates more mass on the perimeter of the rotor. It takes a lot longer to get up to speed, but once it's up there it's harder to stop.

Next, if you want to run generator coils you will get poor results. Again, as the North beam is a lot sharper it doesn't generate much current into a coil. I found I had to run a comparatively lower base resistance to get my setups tuned properly as the current induced into the trigger coil was less. JB did say that when you stick two Norths together the magnetic flux of the beam is four times stronger, but in my experience it was only as strong as you'd expect from two magnets (twice as strong as one magnet).

The last thing, which I briefly mentioned before, was that it is hard to do right (which is probably why I didn't get the results I hoped for). If you wanted to do 20 poles like JB did on his 10 coiler, you need to find 40 magnets with EXACTLY the same gauss as each other. If you don't, you will get the beam skewing left or right from the centre of the magnets which will affect your timing, especially with multi-coils. Obviously, how accurate you glue the magnets together would also be important.
If you manage to get 40 magnets the same, then you have to make sure that they are spaced apart PERFECTLY. This is not so critical with a single-coil machine, but on a multi-coil you have to be exact or you'll lose on efficiency.
Then if you manage to get this right, your coils must be mounted perfectly with the exact spacing between each coil AND the gap between the coil and the magnets must be the exactly the same for all coils.

Lucky for us experimenters Rick has designed the 10 coiler in such a way that the coils are always lined up properly and square and the gap can be set easily. The biggest challenge would be to design a rotor where the "super" North magnets are secured well enough into the rotor, to prevent them flying off at speed. The rotor that is currently being shipped is a great design because the magnets are placed in wedge shaped plastic holders and then the holder is secured to the aluminum rotor, so they can't fly out.
A similar design could be achieved for "super" North magnets, but it would mean that the rotor would have to be thicker (the same as the length of the magnets) which would really increase the price. Also, who would be going to the effort of gluing the magnets together properly? The magnets would have to be ceramics because it's near impossible to stick neo's together.

So, IMO a super North rotor setup would be great for a single build, as long as you did it right (as JB did), but if I had to design one for a mass market I would've gone for what Rick did with the neo rotor.


John K.

[Sephiroth]

Hi Ren,

Don't want to take the thread off topic so I'll move to the other one

[albertMunich]

Thank you very much John for these insights on the SuperPole configuration. Difficult to build, difficult to tune and probably not that much better above the line. If one draws the line - its not a must have thing.Would you agree with that? BTW I love your machines. Great builds. Your last videos were I think almost a year old-perhaps you could bring us up to speed where you are now?

I think that every machine is a compromise. So is the Rick Friedrich kit. It has to be accessible-and manageable- by the largest number. And the manufacturing costs must be held in check. I really think this kit will advance the field enormously because what was lacking was a standardized machine-or a set of machines- that everyone can use and improve on- if they are willing to pay the price.
My own tests with grounding of the Bedini machine did not give me the expected results- I spent yesterday outside and went thru every imaginable configuration.
Pulsing current thru two ground connections- trying to "suck" energy from a single ground connection- not much success here.
BUT- and here comes the big BUT - I have noticed an effect that certainly has come up in these pages before- the performance of the machine is largely dependent on daytime. I had the same effect twice so I guess it is repeatable. My machine- grounded or not- was under unity all day long until about one hour before sundown. Then all of a sudden the drive battery began to rise. This went on until after dark and into the night. drive battery rose from 12.38 to 12.56 Volts between 7.15 and 9.15 p.m. without having changed a parameter. sundown was at about 8.50h.
I used a one battery setup and fed back some of the output energy into the input via small transformer and FWBR. So this thing is very sensitive to incoming energy because it is draws very little current. With this setup the battery discharges slowly but surely under normal conditions. then came this sudden reversal at this precise moment of the day...WTF?
I then struck the setup and moved indoors and the OU phase continued. I let the machine run until this morning and the batt went down again as was expected.
So perhaps there is a time window where a machine that's just slightly under unity will move into OU. One more reason why this stuff is so evasive.
Have you others noticed marked differences in performance during day/night periods?