Bedini 10-coil

[aussieaussieaussie]

Update!

Ok, update folks!

Bits has posted that his test duration lasted 2 days in another thread here:
Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion

He states that he could of run the machine longer, but didn't.
Why the test was stopped is still unknown.
If any voltage drop was recorded in the batteries after the test is also unknown.
The size and quantity of the batteries used is still unknown.
2 days is the said duration, hopefully we might get a more accurate figure in hours soon and if this two day test was in reference to the conference or the grid tie inverter 60-210watts output test.

Bits is not willing to do a longer test at this time.


Hope this helps,

Ozy

[SeaMonkey]

I feel so much better! I think we are finally getting somewhere. A few days of BS and egos and viola ANSWERS! Thanks for your help so far Bits, I think we might of got a few skeptics listening now.

Sweet As Bro,

Ozy [/COLOR]

P.S. Why would I be wearing out my welcome? Why do simple questions irritate people so much, but if you ask a detailed complex questions they will write huge replies...

Ozy, there are many who are puzzled as well.

It would seem that certain experimenters are
far too invested in ego and self gratification;
this "investment" seems to impair their ability
to answer questions simply and with clarity.

Far too much verbosity and far too little "beef."

Oh well, such is life. As boys grow into men they
eventually learn (hopefully) mature behavior.

[SeaMonkey]

Ok, update folks!

Bits has posted that his test duration lasted 2 days in another thread here:
Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion

He states that he could of run the machine longer, but didn't.
Why the test was stopped is still unknown.
If any voltage drop was recorded in the batteries after the test is also unknown.
The size and quantity of the batteries used is still unknown.
2 days is the said duration, hopefully we might get a more accurate figure in hours soon and if this two day test was in reference to the conference or the grid tie inverter 60-210watts output test.

Bits is not willing to do a longer test at this time.


Hope this helps,

Ozy

Yes, it is helpful.

Many in this forum seem to believe that the voltage
measured across the terminals of the lead acid battery
can be an indication of "overunity."

While there is indeed some correlation between the
battery terminal voltage and the percentage of available
energy contained therein, it is very unreliable.

Basing any claims of "over-unity" strictly upon battery
voltage measurements is foolhardy. Far more exhaustive
analysis is needed to positively ascertain the existence
of surplus energy or over-unity.

At every stage of any process it is essential to know with
certainty the True Power Input and also the True Power
Output.

Any claims which are lacking those essentials can only be
unsupported speculation.

[Aaron]

@Seamonkey

Many in this forum seem to believe that the voltage
measured across the terminals of the lead acid battery
can be an indication of "overunity."

That is a tired and worn out argument. Those that know what
they're doing do not simply use voltage that shows up on a meter
to see how much energy there is. Work is drawn from the battery.

This has been repeated countless times and insinuating that this
is the method used to determine "overunity" is misleading and is
manipulation. Some people starting out will think voltage readings
means more than it does, I did in the beginning because I didn't
know better but this does NOT apply to those that have been
working on these projects for a while.

You talk about inventor's ego on sharing things but you have
repeatedly talked about "extra energy" in circuits, but what
have you shown or backed up?

[iankoglin]

@aussieaussieaussie

Ok! No spoon feeding then, and no more using 20 words to be polite, when 3 will do.

With regards to the 60-200watts of output test:
Did you do the test properly? Or did you just measure it once or twice?
Did you run the test for an adequate amount of time to eliminate WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that the system could do this perpetually?

In the past a lot of Australian immigrants were selected by Judges and other High official and because of this most australians think that they are better than others, therefore they think they should let others do all the work so they can benefit.
The 10 coiler is sold as an object to build and experiment with IT does not come "JUST ADD WATER and it works project"
On these forums I understand it is supposed to be a 2 way street where every one builds the machines do the tests and then compare notes.

aussieaussieaussie where is your machine that you are experimenting with have you shown any one your results.
Buy or build your machine display your results then ask questions.

All you seem to do is disrupt the general flow of this thread.


I too am an australian (born in australia)

Regards Ian Koglin

[SeaMonkey]

That is a tired and worn out argument. Those that know what
they're doing do not simply use voltage that shows up on a meter
to see how much energy there is. Work is drawn from the battery.

This has been repeated countless times and insinuating that this
is the method used to determine "overunity" is misleading and is
manipulation. Some people starting out will think voltage readings
means more than it does, I did in the beginning because I didn't
know better but this does NOT apply to those that have been
working on these projects for a while.

You talk about inventor's ego on sharing things but you have
repeatedly talked about "extra energy" in circuits, but what
have you shown or backed up?

While, from your own point of view, it may seem a "tired and
worn out argument" it is used extensively in the video
presentations and discussion threads made available by/to
users of this present forum. Even by some of the "old hands"
who have established some reputation for "busy-ness" and
numerous projects.

Hopefully, if the proper means of evaluating device performance
are repeated often enough we'll see some progress along
the lines of candid and meaningful assessment of efficiency.

The bulk of my own work was done in earlier times when
progress was documented by hand written explanations
and diagrams contained in correspondence. Long before the
advent of the video camcorder or the computer. Incredibly,
there is nothing new in anything which is being discussed within
this present group. Apart from some new and improved semi-
conductor devices and chips. All else is very old business.

Have any breakthroughs in technology been "shared" here?

If so, where?

While I applaud the efforts of those who are truly seeking
to advance our ability to perform and to understand - I
at the same time must be critical of those who are simply
"grandstanding" for business or for notoriety.

And critical of those who promote shoddy technical practices.

My only concern is to provide assistance to those who are
sincerely striving to think and to advance in knowledge.

I'm not an actor or an entertainer.

Learning the "secrets" of energy extraction is a long-term
process which only begins to bear fruit once a certain set
of "skills" is tediously acquired. A "feel" for circumstances
and conditions which develops gradually over time from
a succession of "learning experiences" which serve as
building blocks. (Many, many failures.)

Very few reach that goal. Most will seek other attractions.

Those who do reach that goal find no usefulness in drawing
attention to their successes with boastful showmanship.

[John_K]

My 2 cents

Some sort of practibility needs to be considered here. It's fairly obvious that to share progress by limiting video to a few minutes you can't give a full representation of how a setup can perform.
Personally, any video I share publicly that shows a meter is only to give an indication of the present condition. In none of my videos have I claimed "over unity". Firstly because I don't believe it's possible to get more energy out of system that goes into it. However, COP>1 is perfectly permissible and achievable.
I invite anyone to my shed to witness a battery being discharged at it's rated C20 rate for 10 hours or so and do this at least a dozen times to measure for themselves my results.

I will not however make these results public and open to the scrutiny of the skeptics and nay-Sayers who are not prepared to do the work themselves and prove it to themselves.


John K.

While, from your own point of view, it may seem a "tired and
worn out argument" it is used extensively in the video
presentations and discussion threads made available by/to
users of this present forum. Even by some of the "old hands"
who have established some reputation for "busy-ness" and
numerous projects.

Hopefully, if the proper means of evaluating device performance
are repeated often enough we'll see some progress along
the lines of candid and meaningful assessment of efficiency.

The bulk of my own work was done in earlier times when
progress was documented by hand written explanations
and diagrams contained in correspondence. Long before the
advent of the video camcorder or the computer. Incredibly,
there is nothing new in anything which is being discussed within
this present group. Apart from some new and improved semi-
conductor devices and chips. All else is very old business.

Have any breakthroughs in technology been "shared" here?

If so, where?

While I applaud the efforts of those who are truly seeking
to advance our ability to perform and to understand - I
at the same time must be critical of those who are simply
"grandstanding" for business or for notoriety.

And critical of those who promote shoddy technical practices.

My only concern is to provide assistance to those who are
sincerely striving to think and to advance in knowledge.

I'm not an actor or an entertainer.

Learning the "secrets" of energy extraction is a long-term
process which only begins to bear fruit once a certain set
of "skills" is tediously acquired. A "feel" for circumstances
and conditions which develops gradually over time from
a succession of "learning experiences" which serve as
building blocks. (Many, many failures.)

Very few reach that goal. Most will seek other attractions.

Those who do reach that goal find no usefulness in drawing
attention to their successes with boastful showmanship.

[aussieaussieaussie]

@Seamonkey,
I agree with both you and Aaron here. It is a pity that we still see a lot of battery voltage measurements as data prooving OU machines - because you are right they mean NOTHING! Especially with HV pulses!
But I now use this as a tester, if the person making the video isn't smart enough to know batt voltage means zip - then they obviously don't have OU!
Alas, Aaron is right, this is indeed old news...

@IanKoglin,
[QUOTE=iankoglin;118665]In the past a lot of Australian immigrants were selected by Judges and other High official and because of this most australians think that they are better than others, therefore they think they should let others do all the work so they can benefit.
Yep, that sounds like an illogical rant. BTW I was born in Australia and I definently ain't better then everyone else, we are all equal my friend - searching for happiness!

The 10 coiler is sold as an object to build and experiment with IT does not come "JUST ADD WATER and it works project"
No s h i t sherlock! BTW folks don't add water to your ten coiler, it will only end badly.

On these forums I understand it is supposed to be a 2 way street where every one builds the machines do the tests and then compare notes.
Yes, very true! We are all here to help each other! It's called open source technology and it's catching on!

aussieaussieaussie where is your machine that you are experimenting with have you shown any one your results.
Buy or build your machine display your results then ask questions.
Please note, before attacking me, read all my posts, because there is no need for me to continue to repeat myself and fill up this thread.

Alas,

So what you are saying is cough up the $5000, buy the kit, before I am even aloud to ask questions about other peoples kits. I thought we were all here to help each other? Would it not be prudent to have only a few people try each type of kit first and tell the rest of us how they did? Then we would know which kit to purchase? Makes sense to me, maybe we just have different opinions here.

I have built a bedini fan 10inch kit from Rick, had a lot of fun building it.
It most certainly brings dead batteries back to life, my results for it producing some extra energy were inconclusive. The variance from statistical probability was too small. The bedini only lasted a tiny bit longer. But hey these ARE MY RESULTS, doesn't mean you wont do better!


All you seem to do is disrupt the general flow of this thread.

I would say half my posts are just spent dealing with guys like you, who don't bother to read a little further up the thread to what I have said previously and think I am just another nay sayer.

There are some fairly obvious questions that are not been asked here, I am here to fill that need. When I am happy and confident with the data I have seen here, I will be purchasing a 10 coil kit and replicating whoever provides their data. My replication will then CONFIRM their setup works and there you have it folks CONFIRMED OU machine - who cares if it is only 60-210 watts!

I am here to help, my methods are just a little more based in the scientific method then blind faith, you will have to excuse my bad habit.


Lastly,
@John_K,
"I will not however make these results public and open to the scrutiny of the skeptics and nay-Sayers who are not prepared to do the work themselves and prove it to themselves. "

What about the people who have this stubborn little problem that they don't believe people's claims unless they are willing to provide the data that lead them to their conclusion? What about these people who do want to build it themselves - but don't know what is the right answer because everyone is claiming different things, all without any evidence, so how do we know which one is right?

What about if you had made a mistake in your measurements?
What if you had simply forgot to account for one variable (we have all done it!)?
If you never release your data to the public, you will never know about your mistake. You could spend the rest of your life leading people down the wrong path all because you were to scared to take some criticism.
My friend if you do your tests well, (Ask us we are here to help!) then there will be no criticism only praise and support!


Ozy

[John_K]

@John_K,
"I will not however make these results public and open to the scrutiny of the skeptics and nay-Sayers who are not prepared to do the work themselves and prove it to themselves. "

What about the people who have this stubborn little problem that they don't believe people's claims unless they are willing to provide the data that lead them to their conclusion? What about these people who do want to build it themselves - but don't know what is the right answer because everyone is claiming different things, all without any evidence, so how do we know which one is right?

What about if you had made a mistake in your measurements?
What if you had simply forgot to account for one variable (we have all done it!)?
If you never release your data to the public, you will never know about your mistake. You could spend the rest of your life leading people down the wrong path all because you were to scared to take some criticism.
My friend if you do your tests well, (Ask us we are here to help!) then there will be no criticism only praise and support!


Ozy

Ah Ozy, thank you! I was hoping you would bite. As an expat, you would be familiar with the saying "reel him in boys, I think we have a big one"

Frankly, I don't care about people who have a problem with believing people's claims. I have a policy of not making someone else's problem mine. My conclusions are MY conclusions, not anybody else's. I earned them by spending hours studying and learning and drawing my own conclusions without having anyone influence them. If I made a mistake, that's my problem and when I do make mistakes I learn from them. Don't worry about my problems, I'm sure you have enough of your own to worry about.

If you want to build something yourself and don't know the right answer the ONLY way is to just build it and prove or dis-prove it in front of your own eyes. I don't expect anyone to take my results as gospel. The only people that have the right to see my results are people that pay me to do that. My boss pays me for the privilege of my performance. You do not have that right, so please do not ask me to provide anything to you. If I CHOOSE to make anything public, then it is of my own free will, not because I was pressured into doing it. If your taxes were paying me to do this research, then you have a right to expect to see some results. I can assure you that no one is paying me to do this so no one can expect me to do anything I do not want to do.

I am on this forum to learn from like minded people that also want to learn. If I post any of my observations, it is for the benefit of the people that may find it interesting or compare my conclusions to theirs. If I ask a question, I ask politely and without malice and most of all, with respect of people's time. I do not demand such things of people. I treat people how I would like to be treated and respect their opinions. I may not agree with them, but I do not rant and rave because I think they are wrong or my question was not answered to my satisfaction. Life is too short for that.

I do my testing well. I am very thorough in my research and I do the testing until I am satisfied that I have learned what I set out to learn. I have done many different experiments and I have seen with my own eyes some amazing things with this technology. I have made more mistakes than not, which is how I learn how things work. I have been doing that for nearly 43 years and will continue to do that until I am dead.

You bought the 10" fan kit and admitted that you had a lot of fun doing it and it did bring dead batteries back to life. Excellent work, you must have built it right. Did you also find that whilst it was performing work, it was able to ALMOST charge the secondary battery before the primary battery was dead? Did you start with two fully charged batteries and rotate the batteries until they were both dead and measure the total amount of work the fan produced? Did you compare that amount of work with what the original fan was rated to do and did you even verify that the original fan performed as well as it was rated for? How did you come to your conclusion that your results were inconclusive?

Let me tell you with absolute confidence that the 10" fan kit WILL NOT produce any extra energy. You cannot produce energy, energy can only be transformed from one form to another. You can only reduce the amount of energy that is transformed into waste - known as losses or an undesirable transformation of some of the energy into another form, such as heat.

Of course, I don't care if you answer my questions. It's your choice if you do or not, not mine. They are your results. If you choose to make them public that's entirely up to you.

I will let you in on a little secret, since you seem like a nice guy and all. Here it is. The 10-coiler uses the same principles and concepts as the 10" fan kit. The 10-coiler will do exactly the same as the 10" fan kit, albeit on a larger scale. If you've done extensive testing on the 10" fan kit you will find that if you configure the 10-coiler in the same way you will get similar results. You should not have to rely on other people to publish their results from their own experiments to convince you. There is one major difference however between the two systems. If you build a 10-coiler you will find that the performance will increase in a non-linear way as you scale up in size. I know this because I have done the experiments.

Of course, you should not believe me and I sincerely hope that you don't believe me. They only way you will be convinced is if you build it yourself. Do not take my word for, go and do the experiment yourself and prove it or not in front of your own eyes on your own bench. Then, if you choose to, come back and tell me what you found. I'll be very interested if you do.

If you seriously want to learn about this technology, I am more than happy to share my experiences and what I have learned with you, or anyone for that matter. But if you don't want to, that's your choice and I respect your decision. But please don't attempt to irritate the people that have chosen to advance their own knowledge by needless, and often rude, taunts on their integrity or knowledge. Don't worry, you won't irritate me because I have made a decision that you will not. You see Ozy, life is all about making decisions. You are in the position you are in right now because of decisions you made in the past.

Anyway, I have spent enough time on this post. I've decided that it's now time to go and learn how to run a monopole rotor on a half bipolar sequential Bedini/Cole circuit.

Have a nice day!


John K.

[aussieaussieaussie]

And then John K joined us at the table...

Dear John K,

May I first say what a beautiful post you have, you have thought about what you are trying to convey, you didn't attack me much, and you spoke your mind sincere and true without the need for riddles or ego. Bravo!
No sarcasm at all, truly touched!

Ah Ozy, thank you! I was hoping you would bite. As an expat, you would be familiar with the saying "reel him in boys, I think we have a big one"
Haha, I was fishing today - hence the late postings! John, you posted a VERY loaded statement how could I not bite?

Frankly, I don't care about people who have a problem with believing people's claims. I have a policy of not making someone else's problem mine. My conclusions are MY conclusions, not anybody else's.
Great policy! The less emotionally attached we are the better I feel.

I earned them by spending hours studying and learning and drawing my own conclusions without having anyone influence them. If I made a mistake, that's my problem and when I do make mistakes I learn from them.
If we stop learning from our mistakes we have ceased our education in life!

Don't worry about my problems, I'm sure you have enough of your own to worry about.
Humm, should I just skip this? I mean I never said I am worrying about your problems and for this reason I don't really worry much at all, honestly, no emotional attachment is kinda my MO.

If you want to build something yourself and don't know the right answer the ONLY way is to just build it and prove or dis-prove it in front of your own eyes. I don't expect anyone to take my results as gospel.
Totally Agree! Your results have to be replicated by numerous other independent researchers before we can even start to call them results or even form a conclusion and even then nothing is certain - science & understanding changes with time.

The only people that have the right to see my results are people that pay me to do that. My boss pays me for the privilege of my performance.
Totally Agree! Of course then theres charity and advancing humanity.. but pls continue..

You do not have that right, so please do not ask me to provide anything to you. If I CHOOSE to make anything public, then it is of my own free will, not because I was pressured into doing it. If your taxes were paying me to do this research, then you have a right to expect to see some results. I can assure you that no one is paying me to do this so no one can expect me to do anything I do not want to do.
Free will is certainty in my book, determinism has too many variables for me!
Honestly though, yes, no one should publish there work because the public demands it - they should publish there work because they have come to the conclusion that it would better serve humanity in the public domain, or if they wish to validate their results and be certain no errors were made. I hate it when they do it for purely ego or $$$, don't you, it never leads to any radical improvement in humanity?

I am on this forum to learn from like minded people that also want to learn. If I post any of my observations, it is for the benefit of the people that may find it interesting or compare my conclusions to theirs.
Sounds like a good method!

If I ask a question, I ask politely and without malice and most of all, with respect of people's time. I do not demand such things of people. I treat people how I would like to be treated and respect their opinions. I may not agree with them, but I do not rant and rave because I think they are wrong or my question was not answered to my satisfaction. Life is too short for that.
Look can I just say, and this is the complete truth. When I asked the question politely to Bits about the inverter output of his 10 coiler in my first post, if his answer was simply 60-210watts - nothing more would of been said from me. Ask a simple question, expect a simple answer right? The riddles and tests, were frankly a bit insulting. I was asking a question about a test done on a youtube video nothing more, I hope you can understand that.


I do my testing well. I am very thorough in my research and I do the testing until I am satisfied that I have learned what I set out to learn. I have done many different experiments and I have seen with my own eyes some amazing things with this technology. I have made more mistakes than not, which is how I learn how things work. I have been doing that for nearly 43 years and will continue to do that until I am dead.
Bravo! Only stop when you get to the coffin! .

You bought the 10" fan kit and admitted that you had a lot of fun doing it and it did bring dead batteries back to life. Excellent work, you must have built it right. Thanks!
Did you also find that whilst it was performing work, it was able to ALMOST charge the secondary battery before the primary battery was dead?
Yes, in voltage measurements, but when I used simple load tests the batteries were obviously not charged properly - it was a false voltage reading.
Did you start with two fully charged batteries and rotate the batteries until they were both dead and measure the total amount of work the fan produced? YES Did you compare that amount of work with what the original fan was rated to do and did you even verify that the original fan performed as well as it was rated for? How did you come to your conclusion that your results were inconclusive?
Well many many tests, but to summarize:
Control: 2 batt + normal fan (before mod) = X hrs running time.
Test: 2 batt + modified fan = Xhrs + 10min running time.
I did average rpms test to make sure they were similar. Hey it was fun and a great charger of old batteries. Some people were claiming 1 batt = 3 batt out, but I never saw it. Sorry COP 0.8 maybe, but actual work tests showed nothing above normal charging.

Let me tell you with absolute confidence that the 10" fan kit WILL NOT produce any extra energy. You cannot produce energy, energy can only be transformed from one form to another. You can only reduce the amount of energy that is transformed into waste - known as losses or an undesirable transformation of some of the energy into another form, such as heat.
I am of the same opinion now, do I really need to say more?

Of course, I don't care if you answer my questions. It's your choice if you do or not, not mine. They are your results. If you choose to make them public that's entirely up to you.
Ask and you shall receive my friend! If you talk sense (as in you do) I will enjoy replying to your posts. Others that talk illogical dribble and make stupid attacks, my replies will only point out the illogical argument they bring to the table and ask for data, references, anything! So we can analyze their claims.

I will let you in on a little secret, since you seem like a nice guy and all.
I don't get many compliments here so aww... Thanks!

Here it is. The 10-coiler uses the same principles and concepts as the 10" fan kit. The 10-coiler will do exactly the same as the 10" fan kit, albeit on a larger scale. If you've done extensive testing on the 10" fan kit you will find that if you configure the 10-coiler in the same way you will get similar results. You should not have to rely on other people to publish their results from their own experiments to convince you. There is one major difference however between the two systems. If you build a 10-coiler you will find that the performance will increase in a non-linear way as you scale up in size. I know this because I have done the experiments.
Thank you for the advice! Very interesting! If you have already published or ever wish for me to know more about these experiments, I would love to have a read. But obviously no pressure. In your own time or never - its OK!

Of course, you should not believe me and I sincerely hope that you don't believe me. They only way you will be convinced is if you build it yourself. Do not take my word for, go and do the experiment yourself and prove it or not in front of your own eyes on your own bench. Then, if you choose to, come back and tell me what you found. I'll be very interested if you do.
At a time when I feel confident in the machine and my investment, I will indeed purchase a kit from Rick and build one. That has and always will be the ultimate goal.
I would be more then happy to post any results, I am sure there will be many trials and tribulations along the way! Rest assured, no member inspired test will be too trivial for me, 100% open and simple. If I can't show them, then how am I going to help change the world?

If you seriously want to learn about this technology, I am more than happy to share my experiences and what I have learned with you, or anyone for that matter. Great attitude! I like it!
But if you don't want to, that's your choice and I respect your decision.
Umm, no need to respect my decision. I am here to learn!
One does not come to a forum such as this unless we wants to learn the ways of the force!
But please don't attempt to irritate the people that have chosen to advance their own knowledge by needless, and often rude, taunts on their integrity or knowledge. Don't worry, you won't irritate me because I have made a decision that you will not. You see Ozy, life is all about making decisions.
I am not attempting to irritate people, merely asking questions and responding to illogical dribble, in the hope that the forum realises, I am really here to help. As many post publicly about their disregard for me, many private message me in support of my questions. They too feel that simple answers to questions such as mine will actually bring a lot more people to try this particular type of research. Life is about making decisions John, and I made mine - no longer will I sit idle waiting for the answer to come to me - I will search and post and find the answer I seek, so I may finally start the construction of my large bedini device.

You are in the position you are in right now because of decisions you made in the past. THIS GOES FOR EVERYONE! I AM RESPONSIBLE, SO SHOULD YOU! I hope this didn't mean I am backed into a virtual corner? Cause thats just silly.

Anyway, I have spent enough time on this post. I've decided that it's now time to go and learn how to run a monopole rotor on a half bipolar sequential Bedini/Cole circuit.

Never stop experimenting my friend! I hope you have a big success!
Also the 'bait', or your original objection, I think it was a simple misunderstanding. My response to your comment, was more aimed at people who have claimed OU and have publicly displayed their devices. I hope that helps. Been a pleasure chatting with you John, look forward to your next post!


Have a nice day experimenting!

Ozy

[nvisser]

You said: "I am not attempting to irritate people"
Well you do!!

[aussieaussieaussie]

The Real Issue

But maybe we should talk about the topic at hand....

Heres were we stand:

1 x Replication by Bits so far reported here:

Test was using a grid tie inverter, output was measured using a standard amp meter. Measurements ranged from 60 - 210 watts of output.
The size and quantity of the batteries used is still unknown.
Bits claim the device would run perpetually with this output, although a duration for the test was not disclosed.

Bits is not willing to do a another similar test at this time..
Maybe in the future...we hope!

We really do need another experimenter to take the load off Bits and help us out with their results of their replication. Although these two replications can not be directly compared, it is still valuable in understanding this device further.

I hope there is another replicator lurking in the shadows, with interesting information to share and as always would love to hear of any updates or clarifications from Bits!

Hope this helps,

Ozy

P.S. @Nvisser Sorry mate, their only words, they can't hurt you....

[nvisser]

What is wrong with you. Why don't you replicate any of these?
Have you got anything to show that you have done so far?

[Aaron]

extra shows up in the batteries

Let me tell you with absolute confidence that the 10" fan kit WILL NOT produce any extra energy. You cannot produce energy, energy can only be transformed from one form to another. You can only reduce the amount of energy that is transformed into waste - known as losses or an undesirable transformation of some of the energy into another form, such as heat.
I am of the same opinion now, do I really need to say more?

What too many people simply refuse to get is that John B has always stated
you will NOT see any extra "electricity" or in the machine.

The extra, when people see excess, will show up in the BATTERY - the
chemistry is required for the process.

And IF people measure the mechanical work of a calculated wheel
wheel on the shaft, leather strap, spring loaded scales to accurately
calculate it as Peter L shows in his original Electric Motor Secrets video,
you can see how much is there - then you add that much work to what
you get from the batteries.

Depending on the setup, if 0.8 cop was accurately calculated, then
there is actually about 0.9~0.95 since there is easily 10~15% work
in the mechanical part.

0.8 is not very good. 0.90 cop can be done with a little better build
and 15% on the wheel can be had for about 1.05 cop. It isn't magic
and it doesn't violate non-equilibrium thermodynamics since it is a
non-equilibrium machine meaning closed system conventional
thermodynamics doesn't even apply.

This is an indisputable fact and every natural system is a non-equilibrium
system and conventional thermodynamics NEVER applied to any natural
system.

These machines are analogies of natural system.

[SeaMonkey]

What too many people simply refuse to get is that John B has always stated
you will NOT see any extra "electricity" or in the machine.

The extra, when people see excess, will show up in the BATTERY - the
chemistry is required for the process.

Some of the things John B has said are quite clear.
The statement regarding "you will NOT see any extra
"electricity" or in the machine." is one of those.

This statement may or may not be true. He may have
made the statement as simple "protection" against
charges of fraud. John is a businessman.

For the most part John speaks in riddles. He seems
unable, or unwilling, to communicate clearly and concisely.

Regarding your statement above about the lead acid
battery - that is entirely possible. The lead acid battery
is an amazing device.

The procedures for verifying the existence of such
chemically produced "excess energy" are not complicated.
It would also be possible, for those who are experiencing
the phenomenon, to provide data verifying its existence
in the industry standard "Power Input/Power Output"
format. Even when there is some delay in actually
expending the harvested surplus energy.

What the "Thinking Man" needs to know is what sort of
performance can be attained or expected from certain
"replications" by those who are actively promoting their
own devices and/or technologies.

What is the point of entering the "show and tell"
competitive atmosphere of this forum if there is no
desire to offer competent "proof" of claims?

There is no need to provide details of the device which
the experimenter chooses to consider "secret;" but if
they are making "show and tell" claims by means of their
video productions they should at least be prepared to
offer operational parameters in a technically acceptable
form which would enable the forum at large to make
informed choices.

It is all about credibility and truthfulness.

"Show and Tell" with technical proficiency.

Ozy is indeed asking the right questions. For the benefit
of all.