Bedini 10-coil

[ren]

Dude...

I wanna know where you are sourcing your parts!

10 coils, each at least 100 ft of awg 23 x 8 strands per circuit. That's 8000 feet. I'd be cheering to get that for $250.

10 circuits, with 8 mjl's per board. Buy em locally you can be up for $10 each. Let's use Ricks price, $6 each. That's just shy of $500 bucks, just for transistors. Add on 80 resistors, 160 diodes, circuit boards etc as well.

Aluminum rotor, with the dovetail style slots for 20 magnets, I couldn't get that made for less than $500, maybe some others could, but a machine shop would easily charge that for supply of material and labour.

There is at least $100 dollars worth of Perspex there. Molded too, which costs a fortune. I'd think it would be closer to $200 dollars worth. Before cutting/molding/tapping.

Trust me, you couldn't build this to this level of quality for $5000. Especially if you did not have contacts within the industries, or know someone with a full blown workshop.

There are still at least $500 dollars in incidentals that most wouldn't even consider.

[Aaron]

pricing???????????

10 coils, about 20Kg of Copper ... 250$
10 circuits, ... 100$
A perfect rotor with magnets ... 50$
Perfectly cut plexiglasses ... 100$
Labor for building the coils and circuits: 500$
----------------------------------------
Total: 1000$

Elias,

Please post estimates from places
with parts that match your pricing claims so we can all benefit.

[Plazma]

In for a penny . . .

@Ren; @Aaron -

I have a milling machine (with rotary table) and a decent lathe - I shudder at the job of cutting those dovetails in the rotor and I've wound enough coils to know how nasty ten, 8-filars would be . . . ugly . . . . sooooo, I've got one of Bedini's 10-coil beasties on order.

I plan on posting my build and testing progress on a forum - so, is this the correct forum to do so? Or, maybe a moderator could point me in the correct direction.

I plan to start conservative on voltages (and tuning resistors) and very carefully build up experience one step at a time (i.e., 12V -> 24 V -> 48 V -> 72 V, source and charge load(s)). Tuning this beast is going to be quite a challenge. On into the future I hope to create workable switching strategies and hardware to facilitate switching battery banks and loads and the micro-controllers, plc's, and/or relays needed for effective switching. What I end up with as a "system" could also employ other Bedini devices such as a solar charger on the front end - we'll see.

Based on conversations with Rick F., tuning and dealing with "radiated/radiant noise/interference" could be quite a challenge so things could get really interesting inside the metal building I call "The Bunker" that houses all of my toys.

These forums are great - and a big to all of the moderators for helping keep them that way.

Cheers,

Plazma

[theremart]

Kool.

@Ren; @Aaron -

I have a milling machine (with rotary table) and a decent lathe - I shudder at the job of cutting those dovetails in the rotor and I've wound enough coils to know how nasty ten, 8-filars would be . . . ugly . . . . sooooo, I've got one of Bedini's 10-coil beasties on order.

I plan on posting my build and testing progress on a forum - so, is this the correct forum to do so? Or, maybe a moderator could point me in the correct direction.

I plan to start conservative on voltages (and tuning resistors) and very carefully build up experience one step at a time (i.e., 12V -> 24 V -> 48 V -> 72 V, source and charge load(s)). Tuning this beast is going to be quite a challenge. On into the future I hope to create workable switching strategies and hardware to facilitate switching battery banks and loads and the micro-controllers, plc's, and/or relays needed for effective switching. What I end up with as a "system" could also employ other Bedini devices such as a solar charger on the front end - we'll see.

Based on conversations with Rick F., tuning and dealing with "radiated/radiant noise/interference" could be quite a challenge so things could get really interesting inside the metal building I call "The Bunker" that houses all of my toys.

These forums are great - and a big to all of the moderators for helping keep them that way.

Cheers,

Plazma

It will be most helpful for us to hear first hand your build. Indeed you have come to the right place.

Look forward to seeing your results.

Cheers.

[ren]

@Ren; @Aaron -

24 V -> 48 V -> 72 V, source and charge

Plazma

I like this part

Cant wait to see how you go Plazma.

Id order a kit myself if I had the $$ for it. Maybe someday.

Regards

[Aaron]

pricing

Elias, at first, I wrote almost a 2 page reply to your cost estimate then
changed it to my short post

Your estimation is impossible - circuit is $100? How many transistors
do you need for the whole circuit and how much are they each? What is
the total with shipping and possible tax. That doesn't even include resistors,
diodes, solder, etc...

Anyway, $500 will get you a fraction of the parts and no machining of
anything. You can build it with a bicycle wheel and plywood and you
still can't touch it for $500 not even close.

[patmac]

elias

But What can we make the rotor?

This big rotor needs to be perfectly machined on a turnable machine. This generates a big cost too.

[ren]

all my estimates above are BEST case only. In reality it would likely cost alot more.

Patmac is right. Its no walk in the park to get that rotor built.

[elias]

Well Friends,

I have been building these machines for about 2-3 years and I know exactly what they need. Copper Wire, Transistors, a Good Wheel with magnets.

So, lets see, I buy Copper Wire for about 10$ each Kg, So I estimate Each coil to take about 2KG of heavy gauge wire, thus 10 of these coils with a cheap bobbin for it will take about 250$.

The most expensive part of the circuit is the transistor.
I use MJ15022 and have a voltage rating of about 200V and good current rating, which I have used for years (thanks Ren for the recommendation), I buy them about 1.5$ each, So If I use three transistors per coil, I need 30 transistors, which would result in 45$ maximum, as I will be getting discount. So the fibre and other stuff (diodes, neon, etc) are not that much pricey and will add at most about 50$ to the overall, So this is my circuits at about 100$

Now about the rotor, I considered using a bicycle wheel, which is one of the best choices for a rotor (especially if you can find a second hand racing bike wheel), With 4x10magnets, The total ceramic magnets, would cost about 10$. But If you want an aluminium rotor, Aluminium is a cheap and light metal, and I don't think that the material costs more than 40$. I can get it laser cut for about 100$ at most, So you can add 100$ to the price above If you want a Perfect Lasercut rotor. (I think that Jetijs can give us better estimates for laser-cutting costs)
Machining Aluminium is easy as it is a soft metal, and I don't think that the machinist would charge you more than 50$ for a single rotor, if you want to machine it.

So, What have we left, oh yes, the beautiful laser-cut plexi-glass holders, I can get them for at most 100$.

The other parts, such as ball bearings, and glue, etc. are negligible.

So can we build this machine for 500-600$? If you add the time and energy and of course skills you put in building it, it is up to each of us.

Although I think It can be built with 500-600$, I would buy it from Bedini for 4000$ if I had the money, in order to save time, and also get a more pro and original work, So I am in no way saying that The price tag is not reasonable, I am only saying that the machine is not that far out of reach for those who want to build it for a cheaper price.

Edit: I found out that copper wire is really cheap in my country, so I found the following: 5Kg of #18 copper wire for about 85$, So if you want 20Kg of it you'd consider the copper wire to cost about 340$ which is 140$ above my estimation, so you can add that to the overall price.
Amazon.com: Magnet Wire for Wind Generators, AWG18/18 Gauge, 11 LB Spool: Home Improvement

The transistor is here: Electronix Online
Although I get them for less than 1.5$, you can get them for about 2$ each from that source.

Best ...
Elias

[elias]

Hi

Sorry, I didn't notice that the energiser uses 8 wires for each coil, thus 8 transistors per coil. I estimated for 3 transistors per coil, so If we are to use 8 transistors per coil, we have a different scenario, although the estimation for the coils do not change, because I estimated that with copper weight, and according to the coil size, which would not take more than 2 Kg for each coil.

So If we want to use 8 transistor per coil, the whole diodes and resistors for each coil would not cost more than 10$ including the board, the transistors would cost 8*2=16$ for each coil, so we could consider the price of each circuit for each of the coils to be about 30$, multiplying by 10, that would result in 300$ for the whole circuits, if we use Ricks transistors (Electronix Online) we could do that for about 400$. I have to correct the estimation be about 1000$ instead of 500-600$.

And I acknowledge that It would take good amount of time and work, to solder, wind, and assemble.

Elias

[elias]

I like this part:

We will soon have an additional system (for additional cost) that will attach to this 10 coiler that will function like the early Bedini Energizer system replicated by Jim Watson. It will consist of a rotor with magnets, and energizer coils with frame assembly. It will allow for back charging the primary battery bank or powering additional loads isolated from the 10 coiler (see below).

[ren]

Yes, that does sound interesting

[Plazma]

Tiny Steps . . .

@All,

Ref the 10-coil energizer assembly, I decided to get the basic 10x8 circuits built and working first before attempting adding a load onto the shaft as there is so much to learn. Also, I had a very informative chat with Rick F. and he warned me to take precautions to protect all of my digital gear anywhere in the immediate vicinity if I added the generator coils assembly onto the 10-coil energizer motor - that based on his testing and development experience. As I have a fair amount of expensive electronics in my shop that I do not want to fry, I will proceed with caution. I am grateful to Rick for taking the time he spent with me out of a very busy schedule.

That caution aside, the Watson configuration is indeed intriguing - just be careful to protect your toys. I plan to attempt some form of generator, but later, not sooner. Hope we get other builders on this forum - should be a lot of fun.

Best,

Plazma

[linesrg]

We need to see real world results

Aaron et al,

I will continue to post (until such time as I am banned) on this forum with my simple requests.

Firstly, yet again, I want to believe in a Bedini based system, this message doesn't change.

The 10 coiler kit does represent pretty good value for money IMHO if you are in the market for such a device.

The root question is what exactly will this device do for you?

Yet again I am seeing references on this thread, as are posted elsewhere, with reference to extracting mechanical energy from a rotor based device. I am getting fed up of stating that this is indeed true BUT it is at the expense of charging capability. Anybody who believes otherwise is living in cloud cuckoo land. I and others have determined this and I believe it to be a fact.

This device will very likely do a brilliant job of recovering very large batteries and allow peoplet o benefit from an increased capacity in what may very well have been originally junk batteries and very probably purchased quite cheaply.

I don't doubt it can be used with two large banks of batteries BUT (yes it's that word again) I do not believe it will allow you to use both banks indefinitely anymore than a smaller device would on a smaller bank.

Thus I come back to my oft asked question relating to front to back efficiency of using a rotor based SG with a twin bank of batteries if that is the way you might be thinking of using them (and that is certainly what is being implied in various places).

The latest video's release by JB/ RF show the Tesla Switch/ Solar Kick(?) device charging a battery and it is good to see some more accurate determination of volts/ amps. Thus we see some 78W going into the device and some 140W coming out - BUT(sorry for that word again) this is what is happening into a battery. This is only a part of the picture

All we need now is to see what happens when you note the battery start voltage, run this device for an hour into that battery and then load that battery at its C20 rate until it gets back to the original starting voltage. Surely it's going to be more than an hour isn't it?????

For the record my SMA inverter claims to be 94% efficient. This needs to be demonstrated in a way that is effectively set in legislation and which all manufacturers need to comply with so we know we comparing like for like.

I want to believe but this isn't blind faith.

Please note this is a considered post, with no name calling, no casting aspersions, no finger pointing. It is a simple variation on what I have posted before and, when you cut through all the BS in other threads and posts ask yourself this - has anybody actually answered my very simple questions? The answer is no and everybody is entitled to ask why.

Either a rotor based SG system (i.e. input source to SG to batteries to useful power extracted) is more than 100% efficient or it isn't. If it isn't then isn't it about time sombdoy somewhere could put a figure on this?

Other than this I agree entirely with Aaron's observations about the efficiency of one's own home. I am facing an uphill battle in my 151 year old farm house. The cost of dealing with this is substantial to say the least and requires a total internal strip and re-build due to the nature of the construction of the property. The return on some of this work is measured in a great many years roughly on a par with investing in renewable energy, thus I have to wrestle with this dilemma each and every time I make a decision on which way to go.

Regards

Richard

[Mark]

Hello Richard

I have some of the same concerns as you. I am looking forward to hear from those who buy the 10 coiler to see what kind results they get.

I am also very interested in the solar kick unit. The measurement of 78W going into the device and some 140W coming out isn't a true measurment IMOA since the output is a pulse and not constant. But that is not as important as to what it does to the batteries being charged. I would like to buy one of these units and instead of hooking a solar panel to it would put a battery on the front end and see what kind of results I get.

Elias

Your numbers are still way off and your not even using the same parts. I think it (might) be possible to build a poorly constructed 10 coiler for $2000 but I wouldn't want to be near it if you put more that 24 volts into it.

Plazma

Congrats on buying the kit. I am really looking forward to hearing about your testing. Has Rick given you any advise on how many batteries to put on the output? It seems like you'd want a minimum of 4 or 5. Good luck on your build and I hope everything goes well with no problems or melt downs.

Mark