Bedini 10-coil

[Sephiroth]

Yet again I am seeing references on this thread, as are posted elsewhere, with reference to extracting mechanical energy from a rotor based device. I am getting fed up of stating that this is indeed true BUT it is at the expense of charging capability. Anybody who believes otherwise is living in cloud cuckoo land. I and others have determined this and I believe it to be a fact.

Hi Richard,

I agree there is very little/no solid data regarding extracting mechacal energy from the rotor and as you know this is of interest to me as well and I will be more than happy to share my data when i have completed my experiments.

I don't believe that extracting mechanical energy from the rotor neccesarily reduces the charge efficiency but I don't have the data to confirm my opinion yet. I don't live in cuckoo land, lol... I have good reason to believe this, but I need to do more controlled tests.

I would be very interested in any data you have that confirms that charging efficiency is reduced when the mechanical energy is extracted.

Many thanks
Seph

[ren]

Richard, Ive actually seen the OPPOSITE, as have others. Im not sure where you are getting your data from?

When the SG circuit is loaded mechanically (obviously, not to the point where it stops the shaft) Ive seen an increase in the voltage rise on the secondary battery, and a slight DECREASE in input power. As you should be aware Richard, load the shaft and you will pull less power. JB stated long ago that this device actually likes to have a slight resistance acting upon the shaft.

Perhaps you would care to look at this short video of a magneto Ive been playing around with, helping my machinist build.

YouTube - Westons Magneto

There is a coil ontop of this device which is strictly generator coil, that is, there is no input into it other than induction from the rotor. The rotor has largish neos on it, and its capable of filling a microwave cap to 200v almost instantly. Or 20,000uF quite steadily, over 20v in about 3 seconds. This represents a small drag on the rotor, with a loss of approximately 50 rpm at its top speed at 12v input (870rpm). But that extra load on the shaft doesnt cost us any more input, and the battery charges just fine on the back end, gen coil or not.

IMO, that is one of the greatest advantages of this circuit.

Im actually starting to get scared of this build, we recently upped the strands on the power coils, and we are running it on 24v. IF the rotor wasnt bulletproof, I wouldnt be standing next to it when it takes off.

Regards

[WeThePeople]

RF 10-Coil Kit, NOT REAL JD Copy !

I'm sorry to have to report this.

This kit is NOT an actual copy of the
REAL John Bedini 10-coil unit
you've no doubt seen in videos.

It DOES NOT contain pairs of magnets
in North-2-North orientation
to make "Sharp North's".

Just look at the laminations in John's
original video footage from the EFTV vids.
(Energy From The Vacuum)

Again, my point here is to ONLY
point out the statment in John's vids,
that this is in fact an
"An exact copy of the original"
is sadly absolutely incorrect.

I am not in any way saying it is not
worthy on some note and doesn't work.

Another fairly major gripe was the kit offer.

I believe they should have offered this starter kit:
1 - All physical parts + magnets/inserts
2 - All trigger/lightshow parts
3 - ONLY ONE coil + hardware
4 - Only ONE coil's supporting board parts

With a second kit option for:
1 - ONLY ONE coil + hardware
2 - Only ONE coil's supporting board parts

This would have put it the reach of mere mortals.

The initial setup complete with only one coil,
then nine (Additional) investments to fully populate it.

Same with the 20, 30 coil upgrade kits,
all physical with one coil/hardware/Semi's.
Hope they read this forum...



Also, there was a question about
the plastic/aluminum rotor aspect.

The plastic one is the rotor with all magnets,
the aluminum one only gets two magnets
for trigger, and the lightshow it seems...

Watch:
YouTube - OFFICIAL BEDINI 10 COIL KIT INFOMERCIAL

Save MP4:
Download OFFICIAL BEDINI 10 COIL KIT INFOMERCIAL video - savevid.com

Watch the time-lapse stuff at the end.

This unit ONLY uses SINGLE
Neo's about a inch long...

This disapoints me as I was awaiting
the dual magnet pair orientation info
to start persuing this concept.

More proof?

The single Neo's are held by these
plastic inserts Rich installs by c-clamp.

Here are the pics from an
actual purchaser of the kit.

Again, sorry to have to report this.

[ren]

Hi We.

I have seen some information suggesting that they will be supplying different types of rotors for customers, depending on what they are after, the scalar north rotor being one option. My understanding is that the "scalar north" rotor has a faster switching time, but less mechanical power. So perhaps this is the reason they went with the neos and traditional magnet config.

I assumed that the aluminum rotor is for the main coils? Perhaps this is not the case? You are seeming to imply that the aluminum only has 2 magnets in it? So why all the recesses? John does say that it is an exact copy, which isnt entirely correct either I believe. For one the original used AWG 18 on the coils. But this has been changed so that the unit can run over a broader input range. BTW, they will be offering AWG 18 on their coils soon Ive heard.

Once again, this is info I have heard through the grapevine.

Regards

[WeThePeople]

I have seen some information suggesting that they will be supplying different types of rotors for customers, depending on what they are after, the scalar north rotor being one option. My understanding is that the "scalar north" rotor has a faster switching time, but less mechanical power. So perhaps this is the reason they went with the neos and traditional magnet config.

All I ever wanted was the rotor,
well OK, and a verified schematic.

I assumed that the aluminum rotor is for the main coils? Perhaps this is not the case? You are seeming to imply that the aluminum only has 2 magnets in it? So why all the recesses?

The aluminum rotor is additional
to the shaft's center plastic rotor.

You'll see it mounted on the end of the shaft.
(See vid links, request MP4 copy from me if dead linked)

Sadly, there does not seem to be a vid shot
of the aluminum shaft aligning wit any coils.

Perhaps I missed something?

I also wonder why they included all recesses
in that machined aluminum piece for sure myself too.

When the purchaser I am am in contact with
eventually gets all parts, I will ask about that.

Could they have meant the aluminum one
to me the main rotor in the initial concept?

John does say that it is an exact copy, which isnt entirely correct either I believe.

Thank you, that is all I was saying here,
other people might (Still) lash out thinking
I was bashing this kit.

We have to start somewhere,
this is a nice start truely.

For one the original used AWG 18 on the coils. But this has been changed so that the unit can run over a broader input range. BTW, they will be offering AWG 18 on their coils soon Ive heard.

I've seen other wire gauge size's quotes by John (As text).
Sigh...
But it is good they are forward thinking non the less.

Even if the above kit suggestion gets adopted,
that is still eight circuits worth of usefull energy.

[WeThePeople]

Again, just to be sure, I want to believe.

John has every right to persue concept,
and he may be under suppression to tell all

OK, he is MOST LIKELY under to supress stuff.

So OK.

But he said the kit was an exact copy.

Sorry, that is an incorrect statement period!

Does anyone here that has been in direct contact
with John have data/pic of the original wheel.

Oh, and a small point.

Ren, it seems to be an "Imaginary" SOUTH pole,
not a north pole at work here.

Even though at 10-coils it would be
36.5 degrees per alignment,
and 18.25 per half pole alignment,
John seems to stick to twenty two degrees.

Like 22-Degree's is an exact recovery time
on the coils collapse to "catch" Stuff.

I believe my thinking is wrong,
and 22 after alignment may be a clue.

[linesrg]

Using rotor energy

Ren,

If you say you have seen a total increase in energy out when using shaft torque in some way then I am not going to contradict you personally.

This is not the same as saying I agree with you however.

I am also not going to say that simply because I have a certian result then that is the ONLY result possible. People do need to realise that I have built a large number of rotor based devices with a great many configurations and have tried various things.

My experience and that of others supports the old adage that there is no such thing as a free lunch and a rotor based SG is no different. Yes loading the shaft does reduce input current up to a point BUT the usable energy extracted form the battery on the back end also goes down. It is difficult to accurately measure the energy extracted from the rotor other than say using a generator coil and a fixed known load but believe me these are the results that I and others have seen.

I would love to believe those that make claims that oppose mine but I have yet to see anybody post any results or video's with incontrovertible evidence supporting a view alternate to mine.

I also have to agree that the 10 coiler shown in the promotional video certainly appears to be something less than the original but I wasn't going to be the first to state that as I didn't want to inflame passions.

Also I am the only person wondering where the Tesla Switch thread is going?

Regards

Richard

[smw1998a]

Costing Free Energy

Hello All,
I have worked with energisers for many years, along with Richard and several others. I understand the SSG and like Richard I have built and tested many examples of it. John’s 10 coiler kit is truly a remarkable kit and is well priced IMHO. Yes the rotor is different and the magnet configuration is different but, again, IMHO the difference will not be that great between the “scalar north” and the magnets supplied. Like everything there is swings and roundabouts, advantages and disadvantages, there will be no great disadvantage in the type of magnets supplied with the kit.

What concerns me is the expectations placed on this kit. Many are unfounded and those people will be bitterly disappointed. John considers an average current of 1 Amp per coil on any SSG with coils of this size, with all 10 coils that is a possible 10 Amp average input. The SSG could be tuned to draw more current and possibly less but I will go with 10 Amps for now. Consider what input you would need to charge a large battery bank with your new 10 coiler. Your average 10 amp input with a duty cycle of 33% would have to supply an instantaneous current of 35 amps @24v, with a duty cycle of 25% the supply must be able to cope with an instantaneous current of 45 amps @ 24v, 840watts and 1080 watts respectively.

If you wanted to drive your energiser @24v from the wall you would need a substantial transformer, rated at least 50 amps output @24v, these are usually only found in industry assuming you could afford one. You could arguably place enough batteries in series to match rectified line voltage. Possible, where you have 110v, not so possible where you have 240v. And, there are a hundred reasons why this is vary dangerous and should never be attempted. So driving your energiser from the wall at full power is not an ideal option.

Battery power may be the best way to go, after all, average 10 amp draw would only require 200Ah battery bank @ 24v. Not quite. If you want your batteries to last then the C20 rate it is and with an instantaneous current of 30 – 40 amps, your C20 rate would require a battery bank of 600 to 800 Ah @ 24v. Do you have any idea how much conventional energy is required to charge an 800 Ah battery bank and the size of charger required?

Solar is not really an option because of the instantaneous current required by the energiser. If the solar array can’t deliver that instant current, source voltage will drop and the energiser will struggle to function. It certainly will not charge batteries in such conditions. Solution, a bigger solar array. Even if it were viable you would run into the energisers Achilles heel. The energiser takes time to charge batteries, in most cases the length of time is impractical for efficient off grid living. Then there is the front to back efficiency of the energiser. It doesn’t matter how well you hide behind colourful theory, throw accusations or cast aspersions, the SSG energiser is not 80%+ efficient the mechanical is not free and it’s not simply a matter of tuning, it’s physics.

The effect of the energiser on heavily sulphated batteries is remarkable. But in all my years of load testing and cycling batteries I have never measured more out than was put in. I have never measured significantly grater AH capacity than manufacturers specification over continuous cycles and that is fact. Nobody to date has provided solid data to prove otherwise, preferring to quote questionable theory based on poorly understood observations.

@Ren
I watched your video from the link you gave on the first page of this thread. I enjoy such videos very much, particularly when the experimenter is kind enough to include scope shots and other information. Your little SSG was going very well with 36v primary and 36v charge bank. From your waveforms I would estimate your front to back efficiency at 25 to 30%. The only way to prove me wrong is to load test that energiser for a few 20 hour cycles. Choose a battery size that will let your energiser run for at least 20 hours on a conventional charge and charge the same size and type of batteries with the energiser. Load them down with a fixed resistance (to match the average draw of your SSG) to 12v (under load) and note the time of the discharge. You will soon get an idea of the front to back efficiency of your energiser configuration. It is a tedious way to do things but Richard, I and several others do this sort of exercise on a regular basis. That is why when Richard said 30% efficient he meant 30% efficient. Everybody was keen to jump on him but nobody seemed keen to put the sort of bench work in that Richard has put in. Every body wants to argue theory but nobody wants to put their theory to the bench test.

Good Luck.

Lee…

[Sephiroth]

Lee,

wouldn't a well chosen capacitor on the input solve the problems of the exceptionally large peak current.

If the capacitor is being charged from a supply that can handle the average power required by the energizer, then an inductor can be placed in series with the input supply to smooth out the pulses and the capacitor will handle the higher currents required by the energizer.

Good thinking by the way I hadn't considered how to power such a beast!

[smw1998a]

Lee,

wouldn't a well chosen capacitor on the input solve the problems of the exceptionally large peak current.

If the capacitor is being charged from a supply that can handle the average power required by the energizer, then an inductor can be placed in series with the input supply to smooth out the pulses and the capacitor will handle the higher currents required by the energizer.

Good thinking by the way I hadn't considered how to power such a beast!

Hi Seph,
A capacitor will certainly help but it would have to be a very large cap (and I mean large) to keep up with the current draw and ultimately, the solar panel will have to supply the capacitor at what ever the rate of discharge and then some. Obviously, scaling down the SSG would cure this huge appetite for current just as scaling up would make the demands worse still.

Regards Lee.

[WeThePeople]

Electrolytic capacitors are always an option
for repetitive short high current usage.

Solar does well if the repetition is very slow.

These ubber-caps can be found as
"Stiffening" caps in auto audio stores.

Be careful whom you purchase from though,
there are a lot of bad caps out there still.

References:
Badcaps.net - What Causes This

Capacitor plague - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

electrolytic capacitors



I see people still saying scaler north.

Two norths pressed together give a "Sharp North",
but the south wrapping back around is where/when
these coils are triggered, not on the "Sharp" north's.

John tends to call these "Imaginary Scaler South's".

[smw1998a]

I see people still saying scaler north.

Two norths pressed together give a "Sharp North",
but the south wrapping back around is where/when
these coils are triggered, not on the "Sharp" north's.

John tends to call these "Imaginary Scaler South's".

Hello We,
Could you clarify this statement please. The coil charges and discharges, the transistor is triggered by the "sharp north" or North pole of the rotor magnet.

Regards Lee.

[WeThePeople]

TY SMW (Lee) for asking,
No the "Sharp" north's are apparently have nothing to due
with the "Imaginary Soth Poles".

Apparently the Norths only swamp the coils.

Please just watch John in the vid.

Sadly I was just banned from the Yahoo thread for being honest,
they sure don't wanting it to get out this is not an exact copy.

[Aaron]

misc...

@WeThePeople,

If you honestly think John will put his name on a hoax, you are sadly
mistaken. And what you are saying is slanderous. He has amplifiers
that are 30 years old still on the market being sold for thousands because
he has always only put his name behind QUALITY products - that is a FACT,
just watch Ebay sometimes.

The opposing norths triggers the coil by inducing the current and the
transistor switched on when the voltage reversed on that base as soon
as those opposing norths leave the center of the core and moves away.

The south fields are squeezing out between the norths and when the coil
charges north, that south is attracted to the coil's north. That south is
where some of the gain comes from as the magnets are PUMPS.

----------------

@Lee,

30-35% efficient, that would be a record for the worst ever, maybe.

80% tops? That may be your experience, but that has nothing to do with
what others have achieved. You can speak for your own
experience, but you can't speak for what is possible with the machines.

There are people with 50 years experience in physics but it doesn't mean
they ever really learned anything. I'm not saying that applies to you but
just making a point that many people do a LOT of experimentation, a lot of
bad experimentation. Are you? I don't know, you been at this a long time,
but you can also see in that OTG group there were also claims of 10-20cop
and you never batted an eye at that. At least I thought you were in that
group.

And you never seen a battery exceed the rated amount by being charged
with these machines? To me, that is a little strange. And what voltage
does the battery drop to when you determine that it is drained? Specifically,
what battery and what is it specs? You said "significantly" so you obviously
saw some increase over rated amount - but significantly is very subjective.
It either exceeded the amount or it didn't.

[Mark]

TY SMW (Lee) for asking,
No the "Sharp" north's are apparently have nothing to due
with the "Imaginary Soth Poles".

Apparently the Norths only swamp the coils.

Please just watch John in the vid.

Sadly I was just banned from the Yahoo thread for being honest,
they sure don't wanting t to get out this is a 4k$ hoax...

I don't see how anyone could consider the 10 coiler a hoax since I have not seen any statements from John or Rick about its output or its capabilities. That is why I wait to see results from others who have purchased the kits! I hope to here great testing results soon.

Mark