Bedini 10-coil

[Plazma]

Fusing the Big One . . .

Hi Albert,

You have a way at asking the most challenging questions . . . like,
'How in the Heck DO I plan on fusing the 10 coiler?' I have thought a
lot about the issue and I'm not thrilled with the prospects. The challenge
is in correctly matching current draw when so many things can influence
what the 10-coiler pulls from the supply - and then there is the nasty
prospect of having an open circuit show up in the load, leading to a basket
of toasted MJLs and no upstream device like a fuse or circuit breaker is
going to even sense that condition and react to it fast enough IMHO (and, neon lamps can fail, too). Seems to be a real conundrum.

One needs the protection especially early in the learning when you are most vulnerable and, paradoxically, you don't have enough information to even correctly size the safety devices.

As for measurements on the charging output from the 10-coiler (as in all
SSG variants) digital is problematic and even analog can affect the proper
functioning of the machine, depending on how the sensing is accomplished.

One technique I have used with some modest success to measure current flow and galvanically isolate some current signals from my digital instruments including microcomputer-based, home-brew boards is a nifty little Hall-Effect prototype board made by Allegro Micro. This device receives 12 VDC excitation from (for example) an Omega Instruments Digital Panel Meter (DPM) and retransmits a scaled, isolated analog signal proportional to the current that the Hall-Effect sensor 'sees' via magnetic coupling. The 0-5 VDC signal can be displayed on the DPM and/or routed through an isolation amplifier to any one of my microcomputer-based systems. Allegro's hall effect protoboards nominally handle 5 amp and 20 amp current ranges, depending on the HEff-chip as mounted on the protoboard ( at $25 or so for samples of these it is hard to beat the price and Allegro's packaging is experimenter friendly, too).

I mention the use of Hall Effect devices like the Allegro Micro device to open and discuss the possibilities of using more passive devices (like HEff) for machine minder functions hopefully without introducing spurious loads, loops, and non-linear effects that are or could be self-defeating especially in working with Bedini's machines. If we could take data without negating the performance of the machines then we could also develop digital-based safety interlocks, among other things.

Of course, what you've just read are the deranged ramblings of a very tired drone that has several fingers full of splinters - all in the pursuit of a solid pine-paneled (no cheap imitation veneer for me) comfy home for the 10-coiler and its associated sub-assemblies.

The shell of the building is steel and it is well grounded and that is a stretch considering the limestone cap, flint, and 'topsoil' here in Texas that can only grow rocks. My neighbor next door just lost most of his household electronics due to a really close lightning strike. Guess who's house was not properly grounded . . .

Anyway, the interior of the lab including the workbenches are all wood, all inside a Faraday cage. I hope it all works out- including interlocks.

Albert, thanks for your insightful posts . . .

Cheers,

Plazma

[deanEdinburgh]

was the 10 coiler detuned for mass market?

First of all, thanks for all the previous posts and opportunity to learn about about the Bedini 10 coil. I've been through all 332 posts here at least twice already ... I believe in being thorough ... before making comment. But now, I've really got to say what's on my mind. First, I'll quote some of the posts that support my points.

Aaron: post 22
I remember when the first 10 coiler was built and Peter and John were killing their hands winding those things. I have seen it run countless times and it was able to charge a battery bank that weighs probably 2 tons, literally. I've seen one bank power thousands of watts of incandescent bulbs and then have seen the 10 coiler charge up that bank from the other bank to full charge and have seen both banks charged to the top all without drawing power from the grid.
My response: I believe in John Bedini. He knows how to make OU really work. I'm sure of it, and I think with COP well over 1.

WeThePeople : post 48
This kit is NOT an actual copy of the REAL John Bedini 10-coil unit you've no doubt seen in videos. It DOES NOT contain pairs of magnets in North-2-North orientation to make "Sharp North's".

Ren : post 49
I have seen some information suggesting that they will be supplying different types of rotors for customers, depending on what they are after, the scalar north rotor being one option. My understanding is that the "scalar north" rotor has a faster switching time, but less mechanical power. So perhaps this is the reason they went with the neos and traditional magnet config. ... Once again, this is info I have heard through the grapevine.

TeslaTech: post 262
The other thing what makes me think is, the original 10 coiler from Bedini, had two magnets with northpoles facing each other and makes a “pinpoint beam” like Bedini said. But in the purchased one there are no option for this…. This circumstances could also reduce the effiency of the machine.

My response: The scalar north talked about here was also specifically mentioned by J Bedini in the EFTV documentary he made. He also said in the film that John Bearden had mentioned the importance of this ... things were changed for the 'mass market' kit version ... but why?

WeThePeople : post 51
John has every right to persue concept, and he may be under suppression to tell all
OK, he is MOST LIKELY under to supress stuff. So OK.

My response: We've probably all heard of what happened to Jim Watson. He was 'dissapeared' after he built a huge OU device. J Bedini also had pressure in his workshop, was manhandled, from those people who wouldn't want to see OU really in the public domain.

Some questions that come to mind;Could it be that the 10 coiler released has been 'detuned' to satisfy those who might apply pressure? (Bedini looks visibly nervous when talk of building or selling such 10 coilers on the EFTV docu)Could the use of sharp Norths dramatically improve output? (could be done by changing the magnet setup)Could the use of a larger flywheel, like the one by Jim Watson also improve output considerably? (could be done by adding weights)
I just wish I had the money to buy one and try to see if the sharp norths and flywheel mods would actualy work ... sigh ... will need to wait till I raise the money ...

I hope that now, that these kits are in the public domain, some kind of breakthrough will happen, and we can add the 10 coiler to other free sources of energy, such as solar, wind, etc.

Peace, love and light to you all.

[albertMunich]

You might have a point here - the sharp North configuration is probably important. My call goes out to people like J. Koorn who has a video out of HIS machine with a "Superpole" configuration. I think that is the same as Johns. Perhaps someone who has experimented with this could enlighten us to the effects and the percentage of energy they have gotten out of this setup? This experimenter is advancing towards a multicoil machine- the vid is one year old already.
YouTube - 16 Pole Superpole Bedini Pt 2

The use of neo magnets was always considered a no-no in all the Bedini SSG groups. They said the trigger would not work correctly because the field of the neos might drive the coil cores into saturation.
The remedy to this is of course moving the coils out to a larger distance from the rotor.
All the builds I have seen so far including the RF one on the video have the coils extremely close to the rotor, the way we used to set them up when we made our own replicas.
TeslaTech have experimented with larger gaps but it remains to be seen what this will do. In theory it would be sufficient tio move the trigger coil away from the rotor to get a different signal.
Finally I think they did not detune the machine on purpose. Perhaps the superpole config is difficult to manufacture. There are many other differences to the Bedini 10 coil machine but this replica is nonetheless interesting because it could show that we simply need a critical mass and size to see the Bedini effect in action, regardless of the details.
Plazma, I'm sorry it took me such a long time to respond to your post about the 'Allegro" micro board used as a measuring device.
I think this might be a possibility but electronic equipment is known to behave erratically around Bedini machines. I have lost my BK precision battery tester and a scopemeter to the radiant spikes - although I took precautions to never connect the battery tester to an in circuit battery the thing is just totally shot- even the microprocessor is out. So this might happen to digital devices in immediate vicinity of the big machine.
The thing I would suggest is to run the in or out cables thru a coil or a toroid choke type core and connect the measuring equipment to it. This works strictly in an inductive manner like a clamp meter and your scope will not see the mess on the lines directly...could also be used as a trigger to cut off the power if anything goes haywire.

Bits seems to have closed the loop! Watch his latest videos!

[deanEdinburgh]

OU with POV>1 ... it has been done.

You might have a point here - the sharp North configuration is probably important.
The use of neo magnets was always considered a no-no in all the Bedini SSG groups. They said the trigger would not work correctly because the field of the neos might drive the coil cores into saturation.
The remedy to this is of course moving the coils out to a larger distance from the rotor.
All the builds I have seen so far including the RF one on the video have the coils extremely close to the rotor, the way we used to set them up when we made our own replicas.
TeslaTech have experimented with larger gaps but it remains to be seen what this will do. In theory it would be sufficient tio move the trigger coil away from the rotor to get a different signal.
... [it] could show that we simply need a critical mass and size to see the Bedini effect in action, regardless of the details.


Bits seems to have closed the loop! Watch his latest videos!

Dare I say it ... Bit's HAS done it ... OU with POV>1 ... he shows the closed system generating half amp at 120v, whilst charging itself. Hallelujah! Crowd applause, drum roll, ticker tape parade time! This really is a moment in history. Can we use the word 'genius' here? It does seem appropriate!

YouTube - Self Running Bedini 10 Coiler- Grid Tie.MPG

Meanwhile, Albert, some areas we could agree on, to tune up the power, possibly are;
1. Creating a sharp North pole config.
2. Not to use stock Neo magnets supplied.
3. Increasing the flywheel mass considerably.

Why do I get the feeling we are on the verge of a great moment in the history of civilisation?

[albertMunich]

Well, I'd not be too enthusiastic here. This setup must be repeatable. See the advantages of having a standardized machine here? If the other owners can replicate this setup it will be great.
I cannot say that I understand exactly what he is doing. The inverter is powered by the output and runs the input side via atranformer. I am doing the same here but as he stated the off the shelf inverters have too much current draw at idle. So he built a more effective one. All the rest of it is beyond me at the moment.
Second I have no idea what the settings of the 10 coiler are. For it to draw as little input current it has to be turned way down. If it still outputs the energy to run itself and all the rest of the stuff it's really miraculous. I can't wait for a schematic, scope shots and precise measurements! My hat is off to him.

[Mark]

HI Bits

Great setup you have there! I see that you have closed the loop and are grid tied now. Looks like your output is about 50 watts.

The one thing I did notice is that your battery voltage has dropped quite a bit from your previous video and I'm wondering if after running it for a couple of days does the voltage continue to drop, hold steady, or increase. My guess is that it drops and that is why you are going to go to bigger batteries. If you have them now did they make a positive difference.

The scalar north configuration brought up a couple of posts back is one I think needs to be tested and I'm wondering if the magnet holders are sized for an easy magnet change or if by removing the magnet holder completely that the slots cut into the rotor will easily accept some other magnets that could be setup in the scalar north orientation.

Good luck with you continued excellent work and I look forward to your progress reports.

Mark

[Plazma]

What a Rush . . .

@Bits,

You must be estatic - such a terrific accomplishment ref the latest Video - kudos factorial


Just a question or two . . . on your tie-line inverter I assume its in perfect sync with the power line coming in both in phase and frequency (nice job for a unit of modest size - and not trivial either). I further assume that you've fused it or have a breaker in case the grid goes down so as to protect both the inverter and any stray sparky's Linemen lurking about.

60 or so watts self-running is a terrific start - soon 600 and then 6KW - so I for one am most enthused. Can't wait to see this rig wrapped about some big batteries . . . speaking of which, I am looking at some Solar One's at about 1000 A-Hr, or so. They are packaged so the individual 2 volt cells are removable so as to make the weight more manageable. Any thoughts or suggestions? I am getting very close to completing the lab construction and am in procurement mode for new and large batteries for the 10-coiler.

Again, congratulations

Plazma

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

@Bits,

You must be estatic - such a terrific accomplishment ref the latest Video - kudos factorial


Just a question or two . . . on your tie-line inverter I assume its in perfect sync with the power line coming in both in phase and frequency (nice job for a unit of modest size - and not trivial either). I further assume that you've fused it or have a breaker in case the grid goes down so as to protect both the inverter and any stray sparky's Linemen lurking about.

60 or so watts self-running is a terrific start - soon 600 and then 6KW - so I for one am most enthused. Can't wait to see this rig wrapped about some big batteries . . . speaking of which, I am looking at some Solar One's at about 1000 A-Hr, or so. They are packaged so the individual 2 volt cells are removable so as to make the weight more manageable. Any thoughts or suggestions? I am getting very close to completing the lab construction and am in procurement mode for new and large batteries for the 10-coiler.

Again, congratulations

Plazma

Thanks Plazma, the grid tie inverter has all of those features that you have mentioned. I look forward to your testing.

Bit's

[Sephiroth]

Dying to see a scope shot across the charging battery

[albertMunich]

Would like to hear what Bits is doing- my own tests at the moment go towards grounding of the Bedini machine. There has been discussion that the Bedini only works in OU mode when it is properly grounded. I am currently trying to evaluate this. And it seems there is a point to this.
Perhaps it might be interesting to find out if your 10 coil machines behave differently during day or nighttime-. If we are tapping the surrounding energy field there is a large probability that this field is influenced by the sun.
The Kapadnaze machine might also be subject to these fluctuations. When I tried to run closed loop - the way Bits is doing- feeding the output batt into an inverter-then a transformer and FWBR to back charge the primary batt- I noticed a very slow fluctuation in the input battery voltage. I use a voltmeter with 1/1000 precision so its quite sensitive.There seems to be a low sine wave type fluctuation sometimes over several minutes.Have you seen a similar effect?

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Would like to hear what Bits is doing- my own tests at the moment go towards grounding of the Bedini machine. There has been discussion that the Bedini only works in OU mode when it is properly grounded. I am currently trying to evaluate this. And it seems there is a point to this.
Perhaps it might be interesting to find out if your 10 coil machines behave differently during day or nighttime-. If we are tapping the surrounding energy field there is a large probability that this field is influenced by the sun.
The Kapadnaze machine might also be subject to these fluctuations. When I tried to run closed loop - the way Bits is doing- feeding the output batt into an inverter-then a transformer and FWBR to back charge the primary batt- I noticed a very slow fluctuation in the input battery voltage. I use a voltmeter with 1/1000 precision so its quite sensitive.There seems to be a low sine wave type fluctuation sometimes over several minutes.Have you seen a similar effect?

Grounding Well that's totally interesting. Are you talking earth ground or mains ground? I could see a earth ground providing some interesting results. I would be hesitent to provide a mains ground though. I have not scoped this yet to see that "stray" sinusoidal, however they would be entirely possible. This animal has tremendous radiant pulsations that you can actually feel if you get close to it while running. At the moment, I am experimenting with using some of the Tesla Switch technologies on the drive batts to charge batts. Also looking at ways to put drive batts in the charge rail and pull batts from the charge rail back to the drive side (my battery train idea). This would eliminate the additional components.

Jeff

[Sephiroth]

Did I mention I'm dying here? Really want to see those spikes!!!

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Did I mention I'm dying here? Really want to see those spikes!!!

You did, sorry Seph, I'll try and fit that in this week.

Jeff

[Sephiroth]

You did, sorry Seph, I'll try and fit that in this week.

Jeff

CHEERS!

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

CHEERS!

Scope shots (wasn't what I expected);



YouTube - 10 coiler Scope shots.MPG

Jeff