Bedini-Cole Window Motor Electric motor runs without draining batteries!!!

[ren]

Holy cra* .... Now this person has done some amazing work. The best I've seen.

He says his window motor will run for HOURS on a capacitor.... Dang!

I suppose this has to be just "slightly" over-unity because tiny capacitors cannot run a motor for hours.... This video is proof positive that these motors do defy some conventional limits.

YouTube - Mini Window Motors Capacitor Demonstration.

Hi Huckmubb,

Ive been chatting with DadHav on the BM2 forums. You are right he does excellent work. The capacitors, while small are rated in the farads and thus can store a significant amount of charge at low voltages. He has also done tests using nicads and Nimhs and found that hours of running doesnt seem to drain the batteries.

I think I remember him saying he got over 100 hours run time of two aa's in series and each time he stopped the machine the batteries would stabilise back up to their original voltage. He was measuring to three decimal places @ 3v and had to wait days to see it change.

Very nice work indeed.

[nkdurrett]

has there been any updates?

[Total Psychonaut]

the window motor now comes as a kit! Small Window Motor Energizer Basic kit

[carter]

Can anyone elaborate?

Is there any chance of posting what the results of the motor are then posting useful diagram with parts? Exact specs, exact parts. Like a drawing done in paint showing how this all goes together would be great. Then a list of the parts. Then I could try and replicate this thing.

[carter]

the window motor now comes as a kit! Small Window Motor Energizer Basic kit

I ordered this kit. They charged my card, but never sent the thing. After ten days of waiting for it to ship I had to dispute the charge with my bank. Was extremely disappointing.

[wrtner]

I ordered this kit. They charged my card, but never sent the thing. After ten days of waiting for it to ship I had to dispute the charge with my bank. Was extremely disappointing.

It depends where you live. Shipping times from the States
to Europe can be extensive.

[carter]

The owner of R-Charge finally responded to me after two weeks. They were out on vacation apparently. They apologized and bumped me to overnight shipping for free. So all in all no harm done. Can't wait to get this kit.

[drodenbe]

Carter: I usually don't say much on forums but I noticed your response from rcharge taking two weeks to respond because of vacations. They must take a lot of vacations because I had same response from them a while ago and it was at least two weeks before they responded. I got tired and had pay pal refund my payment because of not receiving my order. I ordered the 3 inch coil spools. I later found a company out of New York that sold me 273 spools for about 20.00 more then I was paying for 20. I am not too thrilled with there service. Just thought I would let you know. I can give you the phone number if you like. They are the same spools that they sell.

[naxompax]

Kits vs Sourcing parts

I recently built the R-Charge kit. Had no problems with shipping, items seemed in good shape. However after building my first one I quickly realized that it would be super simple and cheap to source the parts my self. My second Window motor was exactly like the kit just way bigger, all self sourced (from Ebay mostly). The latest one was the full sequential bi polar
circuit. I used Bedinis Lab notes (found on the net) and followed it exactly,
EXACTLY.....one more time for effect EXACTLY. and it worked exactly as described. But a kit is to save you time sourcing parts not to save you money. I think kits are expensive if you ask me. Most of my sourced parts came from china, macau, and thailand at a fraction of the price from ebay.

Nax

[slloyd]

back on the WM forumn when john b. first started posting about the window motor there was rick f. and RS(i think?) who made some fairly large aluminium rotors and shipped them out to people at cost for experiment. i have one and built the window motor using cole circuit as john described exactly. its really something to see how efficient that motor is .. could hit 5000rpm. i experimented for a short while with trying to get it to run off capacitors. i have a whole box of high quality film caps but never got a chance to finish the experiment because life caught up to me and all that. i hope to get back to it some day, it was really neat.

[DIVERFUN]

Improved Circuit

Hi everyone,

One of my passions is studying and building "free energy" technologies.
There are many misconceptions about this field and it is attacked by
people claiming anyone doing anything in this field are a bunch of
perpetual motion nuts.

The truth is that these technologies are very real and they also have
absolutely nothing to do with perpetual motion! I'm not getting into
the specifics in this message about the distinctions because this topic
is too important to focus on the misconceptions. Instead, lets shine some
light on an amazing recent release.

John Bedini is a world famous electrical engineer and is considered a
"Mozart" with electronics and especially in the field of audio components
because he builds he highest quality most crisp sounding audio amplifiers
known to man.

Besides the audio field, he also happens to be one of leading super
geniuses in the field of electromagnetic energizers and "radiant energy"
in general.

For over 11 years, he had many plans posted on his website for many
different versions of his motors and the "School Girl" motor is probably
the most popular and there are thousands around the world building
this motor achieving very exciting results that are supposed to be
impossible.

Besides this motor, there is one version called a "Bedini-Cole Window Motor"

This is what it looks like:



The plans have been given out to the world on this website:
MOTOR DIAGRAMS AND LAB NOTES

The schematics for this motor are here:



Watch a demo video: http://www.icehouse.net/john34/bedinicolemotor.mpg this is 12MB's long
so be patient or right click on the link and SAVE TARGET AS

You can visit John's homepage here: Welcome to John Bedini

Be careful not to miss any links because they are scattered and
hidded all over his websites. There are many.

One time at John's shop, he hooked up a little battery to this motor
and it was so efficient it almost didn't register any amperage on the
meter while it was running. Also, I grabbed the shaft with my hand
and I couldn't even stop it!! It produces more torque for the least amount
of power out of any motor that I think has ever been released.

Anyway, Mike, an experimenter who did a small modification to the original
plans wound up with a more efficient Window Motor that runs itself and
keeps charging a capacitor charging up!

Here is what his looks like:



Here are the schematics / plans with the small modification:




Watch this video:

YouTube

How does it power itself???

That will be another discussion...but pass the link to this forum to your friends so we can
get the word out. I'm not just someone excited about this...I have built many, many Bedini
circuits and they all work as long as I build them according to his plans and not how I think
they should be built. I'll post a thread later with a very simple motor that beginners can get
their feet wet with..very simple stuff...a 10 year old girl built one so you can too!

I know this is an old thread

I know why Mike was blowing components - he had no discharge path for the back EMF of the Big coil.

Also the solid state relay and hall effect transistor does nothing that a diode would not do.

My simplified Circuit:



D2 was added to complete a path for Back EMF for the big coil and to protect the transistors.
D3 was added to replace the relay.
Bridge was removed and replace by D4 - third coil only conducts with BEMF from Big Coil - captures more power into the running cap.

This should work better - give it a try and let me know.

[citfta]

Hi DIVERFUN, You posted that this should work better. Does that mean you haven't actually built it and tried it? From your description of how you think it will work it appears you are confused about the difference between bemf and inductive spike. Inductive spike from the collapse of the magnetic field of a coil is not the same as bemf. The direction of the current in an inductive spike is in the same direction as the current that created the magnetic field to start with.

Respectfully, Carroll

[DIVERFUN]

Hi DIVERFUN, You posted that this should work better. Does that mean you haven't actually built it and tried it? From your description of how you think it will work it appears you are confused about the difference between bemf and inductive spike. Inductive spike from the collapse of the magnetic field of a coil is not the same as bemf. The direction of the current in an inductive spike is in the same direction as the current that created the magnetic field to start with.

Respectfully, Carroll

You are absolutely right! (Somewhat?).

School is in session:
There are two things that determine coil (and transformer) current flow - physical and electrical characteristics. Physical because you can wind a coil clockwise (CW) or counter-clockwise (CCW). Two coils - one CW + CCW hooked up the same way to power - each will produce a north pole on opposite ends.

Both coils in Bi-filer wound coils are either CW or CCW together because it very hard to wind one coil CW and the other CCW. (It can be done, but is a total waste of time). That puts them in sync - positive current flow in drive coil produces positive current flow in second coil at the same time because the magnetic field is cutting the wire the same direction as the coil producing it.

Since the coils are in sync with each other, your inductive spike on the second coil has current flowing the same direction as the drive coil - always. But if you did one coil CW and the other coil CCW, the secondary coil would have current flow the opposite direction from the drive - always. So you could have a inductive spike moving the opposite direction.

So now lets talk about the Drive coil. As the current starts flowing through the coil, it creates a expanding magnetic field. As it moves outward, it cuts the wire in the in the secondary coil and produces electricity in that wire. Once the current stabilizes at peak, the magnetic field stops moving and also stops producing electricity in the secondary. The magnet field is still there being supported by the current, but no output on secondary, it is the change in the field that produces power. What happens when you slowly turn off the current? You produce power on the secondary in equal proportion to that change.

So lets turn off the current all at once, you now have a magnetic field that is unsupported by current. The collapse of the field happens very fast, producing power on both coils in a very short period of time in sync and in the opposite direction of the drive current that produce the field. Why opposite? As the field expanded it produced current flowing in one direction, a collapsing field will produce current in the same wire going in the opposite direction.

There you have it! BEMF in the drive coil and inductive spike in the second coil at the same time and with the same current flow direction.

Does it sound like I know the difference between BEMF and inductive spike?

I also, stand by my statement "This should work better." I fixed the problems with the circuit, but I am not claiming UNITY. I can't control other peoples machines. This is your experiment to see if it does work better.

[citfta]

More Schooling

Hi again DIVERFUN,

You said:

So now lets talk about the Drive coil. As the current starts flowing through the coil, it creates a expanding magnetic field. As it moves outward, it cuts the wire in the in the secondary coil and produces electricity in that wire. Once the current stabilizes at peak, the magnetic field stops moving and also stops producing electricity in the secondary. The magnet field is still there being supported by the current, but no output on secondary, it is the change in the field that produces power. What happens when you slowly turn off the current? You produce power on the secondary in equal proportion to that change.

So lets turn off the current all at once, you now have a magnetic field that is unsupported by current. The collapse of the field happens very fast, producing power on both coils in a very short period of time in sync and in the opposite direction of the drive current that produce the field. Why opposite? As the field expanded it produced current flowing in one direction, a collapsing field will produce current in the same wire going in the opposite direction.

There you have it! BEMF in the drive coil and inductive spike in the second coil at the same time and with the same current flow direction.

Does it sound like I know the difference between BEMF and inductive spike?

You are correct about what happens when you turn on power to a coil but you are not correct about what happens when you turn off the power. I have already had this discussion several times with others on this forum. I also have had other people verify that what I am saying is true.

Lets look at the simple Bedini School Girl circuit. Very similar to the circuit you have posted except we are only controlling power to the coil by turning on and off the return power back to ground instead of on both sides of the coil. The coil doesn't really care either way. I am going to use the conventional idea of electron flow from the most negative to the most positive. So a power source has a terminal of excess electrons (negative) and a terminal of fewer electrons (positive).

When the transistor is turned on the electrons flow from ground through the transistor and through the coil and back to the battery or power source. Of course the initial flow is restricted by the inductance of the coil just as you described. And you are also correct that if we slowly reduce the current the field slowly reduces and would in fact induce a current into another coil winding if it was there.

Turning off the current quickly does NOT cause the current flow to reverse direction. I am not sure where that idea came from but my own experiments and training have proven that idea to be false. Whether we turn off the coil slowly or quickly the current does not reverse unless we have a situation that allows the circuit to ring or reverberate. But the initial discharge of the coil is in the same direction as the initial charge of the coil.

How would this look on a scope or a meter if we had a meter that could react quickly to a spike? Lets put a scope on the coil with the ground of the scope on the bottom of the coil and the probe in the top of the coil. Staying with the SSG circuit what would we see? Before we turn on the transistor we would have 12 volts at the top and bottom of the coil. But since our scope is connected to the top and bottom of the coil it would show 0 volts.

Now turn on the transistor. Our meter is now going to show a positive signal because electrons are flowing from the negative ground to the positive post of the battery making the bottom of the coil in reference to the top more negative. So remember electrons are flowing from bottom to top.

Now turn off the coil. The definition of inductance is that it resists change in current flow. There is nothing in the definition that says inductance reverses current flow. So now the source of power is gone but our coil has not discharged but it wants to. Now we still have our scope connected to the top and bottom of the coil. Except now our coil has become the supplier of current instead of the user. Since the current is still flowing the SAME way we quickly get an excess of electrons at the TOP of the coil. So our scope or meter is going to show the top of the coil negative and the bottom of the coil positive. But that is because the coil is supplying the current instead of using the current. It does not mean the current has reversed as so many people seem to believe.

If the current reversed as you believe then the SSG could never charge the charge battery because the diode going to the charge battery would be reversed biased and also the battery would be connected backwards.

Depending on which way you connect your third coil in your circuit and the amount of turns it has it is possible your circuit will actually charge the cap. However your diodes to protect the transistors are connected correctly.

By the way the original pictures and circuit you posted of the guy who claimed it ran off the cap only was later proven to be fake by John Bedini himself. He found the guy had hidden some batteries inside the solid state switch.

School is out.

Respectfully, Carroll

[DIVERFUN]

Sorry - School is still in - we just had a recess.

Hi again DIVERFUN,

You said:

You are correct about what happens when you turn on power to a coil but you are not correct about what happens when you turn off the power. I have already had this discussion several times with others on this forum. I also have had other people verify that what I am saying is true.

I am correct. A moving magnetic field across a wire causes electricity to flow one direction - reverse the direction of the movement of the magnetic field and the electricity will flow in the opposite direction in the same wire - Basic physics. An expanding magnetic field and collapsing magnetic field are fields moving in opposite directions - period.

Lets look at the simple Bedini School Girl circuit. Very similar to the circuit you have posted except we are only controlling power to the coil by turning on and off the return power back to ground instead of on both sides of the coil.

There is nothing similar about the Bedini School Girl Circuit. The two circuits act very differently on how the transistor(s) are used. The SSG circuit amplifies the electricity produced from the magnet as it pulls away from from the coil. The trim pot CONTROLS how much current is allowed through the transistor (and coil) and rarely does the transistor reach saturation. The output from the transistor is half a sine wave because it is amplifying half the sine wave of the magnet induced electricity. (Other magnetic things happen to turn off the transistor, so the output is not a complete half sine wave).

Mike's circuit (I do not claim it.) uses a Darlington Switch setup that turns the transistors full on or full off as fast a possible - there is no in between. This produces a square wave output. It also produces a high current drain on the Cap (or Battery) because the only thing that slows the current is the inductance of the coil and the resistance of the wire - the transistor does not control the current, just on or off. The PNP transistor also helps shut off the current faster than the two NPN pair alone.

I am going to use the conventional idea of electron flow from the most negative to the most positive. So a power source has a terminal of excess electrons (negative) and a terminal of fewer electrons (positive).

I am with you there. That's the way I was taught.

When the transistor is turned on the electrons flow from ground through the transistor and through the coil and back to the battery or power source. Of course the initial flow is restricted by the inductance of the coil just as you described. And you are also correct that if we slowly reduce the current the field slowly reduces and would in fact induce a current into another coil winding if it was there.

I still agree. This is what you are talking about.

Turning off the current quickly does NOT cause the current flow to reverse direction. I am not sure where that idea came from but my own experiments and training have proven that idea to be false. Whether we turn off the coil slowly or quickly the current does not reverse unless we have a situation that allows the circuit to ring or reverberate. But the initial discharge of the coil is in the same direction as the initial charge of the coil.

The current does reverse direction (if it is given a path) because the magnetic field in the coil is collapsing. Back to basic Physics. That is why we put a diode across the transistor - to give BEMF a current path to protect the transistor and to recharge the Cap (or Battery).



If the current was still going the same direction, where is it's path? - it can not go through the transistor (it is off) and it can not go through the diode (it is reversed biased) and it would be discharging the cap further.

How would this look on a scope or a meter if we had a meter that could react quickly to a spike? Lets put a scope on the coil with the ground of the scope on the bottom of the coil and the probe in the top of the coil. Staying with the SSG circuit what would we see? Before we turn on the transistor we would have 12 volts at the top and bottom of the coil. But since our scope is connected to the top and bottom of the coil it would show 0 volts.

Agreed.

Now turn on the transistor. Our meter is now going to show a positive signal because electrons are flowing from the negative ground to the positive post of the battery making the bottom of the coil in reference to the top more negative. So remember electrons are flowing from bottom to top.

At first because of the inductance - the scope will show a 12 volt peak and then drop back to 0 volts over a short time because the inductance gets less as the magnetic field saturates the coil. Still with you.

The definition of inductance is that it resists change in current flow. There is nothing in the definition that says inductance reverses current flow.

Correct - Inductance is the coils ability to resist the change in current - it likes a steady flow - no abrupt changes. It has nothing to do with current direction. Same effect both ways.

Now turn off the coil. So now the source of power is gone but our coil has not discharged but it wants to. Now we still have our scope connected to the top and bottom of the coil. Except now our coil has become the supplier of current instead of the user.

Still with you.

Since the current is still flowing the SAME way.

Now you lost me - if it is off at the transistor, it is off in the coil. There is a difference in how the coil reacts to a square wave vs a sine wave. A sign wave does not turn off instantly. It's voltage is reduced and the coil adds voltage to keep the current at the same amperage until it no longer can, but it still flows in the same direction and the magnet field is still expanded, just not as strong as at peak. As long as the current is flowing from the power source, the coil will continue to to try to maintain the same current flow. If the current is off instantly, there is no current flow to sustain the magnetic field, so the magnetic field collapses - inducing current in the opposite direction per the laws of physics. (Not Induction)

we quickly get an excess of electrons at the TOP of the coil. So our scope or meter is going to show the top of the coil negative and the bottom of the coil positive. But that is because the coil is supplying the current instead of using the current. It does not mean the current has reversed as so many people seem to believe.

I found my old Electronic Basics book from when I went to school and they even show that the coil does reverse current flow.



Notice the + and - signs for each schematic.

If the current reversed as you believe then the SSG could never charge the charge battery because the diode going to the charge battery would be reversed biased and also the battery would be connected backwards.

Answer this - If the current still flows the same direction from the coil, what is the current path to charge the Cap or battery?

Depending on which way you connect your third coil in your circuit and the amount of turns it has it is possible your circuit will actually charge the cap. However your diodes to protect the transistors are connected correctly.

The diode for the third coil is correct. Since the two coils are in sync, it captures the spike energy the same time as the Drive coil. (As per the transistor off picture.)

By the way the original pictures and circuit you posted of the guy who claimed it ran off the cap only was later proven to be fake by John Bedini himself. He found the guy had hidden some batteries inside the solid state switch.

I can see how that can be done. Or maybe the guy doesn't know enough about electronics to get the circuit right. (which is a proven fact just in this thread alone.)

School is out.

No, it is not. I am sure you will have something more to say.

Respectfully, Carroll

Thank you!