Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[Les_K]

Hi Les,

I'm far from an expert in this area, especially with FETs. If it were me, I would spend some time with the "vanilla" Bedini/Cole circuit first and then modify it later once you know exactly what is going on.

I believe John B was talking about using a FET for the cap pulser section, not on the front end.

Good that you're thinking though!

I have learnt more in the last couple of days now I have a running machine in front of me than in the last month just reading all the posts in the thread, but that's the kind of guy I am.

The machine is not that hard to build. I have tried to keep as close as I can can to the instructions with the parts I had and also a limited budget. I still have a lot of unanswered questions in my head that I will figure out the more I play with it.

I am very impressed that I can turn a 20lb wheel and charge almost one to one with about 5W out of the primary! I'm not using the mechanical energy yet, but I may attach a fan to the shaft as this will be an easy way to load it down some and get the speed down.


John K.

I am the same way John, I have to get it in front of me for all the reading in the world...
And yes, as I stated I am staying with the vinilla....mmm, mmm, goood! for now.

I am saving for the upcoming conference so my budget for this got clipped a bit....

Thanks for the inspiration John K, It is greatly appreciated.
Les

[John_K]

The slave coils

Hi All,

I'm starting to think some more about the slave coils and why John B has them the way he has.

The most obvious reason I can think of is to lower the total impedance of the coils, which should give a bigger radiant spike and therefore better capturing of the "waste" into the cap.

The next thing that comes to mind is that John B said the 3 coils are in interferometer mode. I did some Googling on interferometry and is is very interesting. This IMO is what creates the non-linear situation.

Thirdly, it's a neat way to slow the machine down. The outside coils can act as a "brake" as they will load the machine down if positioned correctly without degrading the performance.

Just my thoughts.....


John K.

[John_K]

Sometimes...

Sometimes I can't believe how dumb I am

On thinking of ways to slow the machine down I missed the easiest way to to it. It was literally staring me in the face.!!

You would think that all those years with working with Monopole Bedinis would help??

Ummm, how about if I adjust the coil to rotor magnet gap???

I increased the gap by about half an inch. Now it runs beautifully at 24RPM and about 6.7Hz - right in John B's ballpark.

Some times I just want to kick myself!


John K.

[Matthew Jones]

Hi All,
I'm starting to think some more about the slave coils and why John B has them the way he has.
The most obvious reason I can think of is to lower the total impedance of the coils, which should give a bigger radiant spike and therefore better capturing of the "waste" into the cap.
The next thing that comes to mind is that John B said the 3 coils are in interferometer mode. I did some Googling on interferometry and is is very interesting. This IMO is what creates the non-linear situation. .........
........Just my thoughts.....

John K.

Could be that they are wired backward. Wound the same direction just wired backwards so they are pulling. After all look at the offset.
It would also produce an "interferometry" situation as the spikes coming out of the slaves would be reversed from the primary.

Big potential as well.

Just me thinking out loud though....

Matt

[nvisser]

Matt
I also thought about that, but don't you think John would have told us if that was the case?

[Les_K]

DIng ding

Funny how you forget, that you forgot... but I was thinking about what has been stated on the ring twice that has been discussed. And after watching the vids etc I remembered a post on monopole_2 where I did a test of the welding rods we use in the monopole energizer.

in post Message #5911 Monopole_2:
Here is the thing, If you saturate the core what does that mean?
In our application it means that the core becomes magnetically charged. It
retains a magnetic field even after the magnet is removed.

I posted an example of this earlier about neos effect on the R-60 welding rods
we are using. It becomes a magnetic switch. Hit it with north and it becomes
north, then hit it with south and it becomes neutral. hit is with south again it
becomes south. Hit it with north it becomes neutral, hit it with north again it
becomes north.

Is this ringing the bell twice?

Les

[Armagdn03]

Funny how you forget, that you forgot... but I was thinking about what has been stated on the ring twice that has been discussed. And after watching the vids etc I remembered a post on monopole_2 where I did a test of the welding rods we use in the monopole energizer.

in post Message #5911 Monopole_2:
Here is the thing, If you saturate the core what does that mean?
In our application it means that the core becomes magnetically charged. It
retains a magnetic field even after the magnet is removed.

I posted an example of this earlier about neos effect on the R-60 welding rods
we are using. It becomes a magnetic switch. Hit it with north and it becomes
north, then hit it with south and it becomes neutral. hit is with south again it
becomes south. Hit it with north it becomes neutral, hit it with north again it
becomes north.

Is this ringing the bell twice?

Les

Very nice.

[genessc]

Seems like it could be. Would be Nice if John B himself would clarify.

It does seem like the two short pulses are to "charge" the "iron" in the two stators on either side of the center one.

I dunno if its still the same on such a large diameter wheel but using a superpole radial rotor at speed generates a SINE wave (at least on the 6inch diameter rotor I have with all Norths facing out, 6 north polar faces at 60degrees.)

Given that the two outter stators "see" the magnets slightly before the center stator "sees" the magnet, how can one pulse the set of coils "all in parallel" to get it to rotate?

If the first blip pulse reguages the cores to relative null or zero polar force, the second blip pulse sets the poles charge to "south" presumably so that it will bring in the rotors magnet... Then when it fires to repel the rotor, its firing against the magnetic fields of the rotors magnets in a sort of dual phase pulse. I say dual phase because the 1 and 3 stators are "in phase" with each other while the 2 stator is not in the same placement as the 1 and 3 stators.

So when the discharge pulse goes to repel the stator, its acting on the center stator directly against the face of the magnet but its also acting on the two stators on either side which have the North now somewhat past TDC to also repel it further with a sort of enmeshed matrix of magnetic flux via the bi-phasing co-timed repelling pulse.

This is just speculation having read the thread here and having built a few SG's... No idea how accurate it is as I'm imagining the functioning of the control circuit that was noted wouldn't be released.

Interesting stuff.

Take care,
Gene

[genessc]

Actually I think in that speculation I answered my own unspoken question. The reason WHY you'd have to "reguage" the stators cores on this device to be Souths is *most likely* due to the explicit fact that the super south which would normally be present on a smaller diameter rotor, is not present to do the work which it normally "freely" does on an SG that has compressed south fields meshed within the rotor squeaking out between each North on the rotor.

Hmmm Could that be it? Beats me, makes loose sense to me tho.

Gene

Seems like it could be. Would be Nice if John B himself would clarify.

It does seem like the two short pulses are to "charge" the "iron" in the two stators on either side of the center one.

I dunno if its still the same on such a large diameter wheel but using a superpole radial rotor at speed generates a SINE wave (at least on the 6inch diameter rotor I have with all Norths facing out, 6 north polar faces at 60degrees.)

Given that the two outter stators "see" the magnets slightly before the center stator "sees" the magnet, how can one pulse the set of coils "all in parallel" to get it to rotate?

If the first blip pulse reguages the cores to relative null or zero polar force, the second blip pulse sets the poles charge to "south" presumably so that it will bring in the rotors magnet... Then when it fires to repel the rotor, its firing against the magnetic fields of the rotors magnets in a sort of dual phase pulse. I say dual phase because the 1 and 3 stators are "in phase" with each other while the 2 stator is not in the same placement as the 1 and 3 stators.

So when the discharge pulse goes to repel the stator, its acting on the center stator directly against the face of the magnet but its also acting on the two stators on either side which have the North now somewhat past TDC to also repel it further with a sort of enmeshed matrix of magnetic flux via the bi-phasing co-timed repelling pulse.

This is just speculation having read the thread here and having built a few SG's... No idea how accurate it is as I'm imagining the functioning of the control circuit that was noted wouldn't be released.

Interesting stuff.

Take care,
Gene

[Les_K]

I am not that far yet Gene, when my machine is running I will get a better feel for it. However I do remember that John B. said he was running some or all the cores in saturation mode. If that's true then I can see the value of attaching the cores to masses of Iron....

Les

[genessc]

Hi Les,

The cores themselves are the masses of iron. You can see the RG60 (or R60) rod in the cores of the coils in the pics of the stators. I was just thinking about the control of the magnetic fields on the rotor for how to sustain rotation. I don't yet claim to have any idea what the iron plate with wings is meant to do. (nor really why he extends the rodded cores down outside the volume of space where the wires are actually wound.)

Perhaps that is used to extend the magnetic polarity while "shielding" the "half" of the magnetic field he doesn't want to interact with the "wired" part of the stator form? I dunno.

Take care,
Gene

I am not that far yet Gene, when my machine is running I will get a better feel for it. However I do remember that John B. said he was running some or all the cores in saturation mode. If that's true then I can see the value of attaching the cores to masses of Iron....

Les

[genessc]

By the way, what does "in saturation mode" mean to JB? Does that mean that its always charged to some non-null field value? polarized to be north or south so as to be saturated and retain a remnance of the field flux as a detectable polar field?

I found this on transistors but not sure how the term of running stators "in saturation mode" applies.

The Transistor as a Switch

<snip>
The yellow shaded area represents the "cut-off" region. Here the operating conditions of the transistor are zero input base current, zero output collector current and maximum (supply rail) collector voltage. In "saturation", as depicted by the red shaded area, the BJT will be biased so that the maximum amount of base current is applied, resulting in maximum collector current flow and minimum collector emitter voltage. In both cut-off and saturation, minimum power is dissipated in the transistor.
<end snip>

If anyone can educate me, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,
Gene

I am not that far yet Gene, when my machine is running I will get a better feel for it. However I do remember that John B. said he was running some or all the cores in saturation mode. If that's true then I can see the value of attaching the cores to masses of Iron....

Les

[Matthew Jones]

Matt
I also thought about that, but don't you think John would have told us if that was the case?

I don't know if thats the way he is doing it or not I just know it works.

Matt

[Les_K]

Hi John B,

It's a standard 3" Pittsfiled spool from Rick. (pic attached)

It has 2 x #21 and 2 x #24. From memory, it was 4.6 ohms and 6.5 ohms but I will measure the Z when I get home tonight to be sure and let you know.


John K.

John K,
Is there any particluar reason you chose #21 and #22 wire?
I was going to use #23 and #21 because I had lots of #23 and have to order the #21. I am trying to stay close to your build. Mine will be three feet not four so I am off anyway. I just noticed that John B's had two gauges aprt and so does yours... just wondering.
Les

[John_K]

John K,
Is there any particluar reason you chose #21 and #22 wire?
I was going to use #23 and #21 because I had lots of #23 and have to order the #21. I am trying to stay close to your build. Mine will be three feet not four so I am off anyway. I just noticed that John B's had two gauges aprt and so does yours... just wondering.
Les

Hi Les,

(You meant #21 & #24 right?)

Only one reason why I chose that guage wire - it's what I had

BTW, my wire comes in metric sizes. The thicker one is 0.75mm and the thinner is 0.5mm. This transalates to AWG as #21 & #24 roughly.


John K.