Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[rave154]

Mike,

i think in your example you have made the mistake of mixing ornges & apples, in that you are comparing watts with joules.....ie:-

FWB produces 1.3 million JOULES per 24 hours

House consumes around 14.4 Kilo watt HOURS per day.....not 14.4 KW !!!!

example..

1 kilo-watt hour = the energy delivered by 1000 watts of power over a one hour time period.

This is the amount of energy you would use to run a typical hair dryer for one hour. To see how many Joules this is, we calculate:

Energy = Power x Time

= (1000 Joules/Second) x (3600 Seconds)

= 3,600,000 Joules = 3.6 million Joules!

therefore.....a house @ 14.4 KW hours would consume....

14,400 x 3600 x 24 =

1,244,160,000 JOULES in one day

FWB / HOUSE = 1.3 million / 1,244,160,000 =

1 / 957

or put another way... you would need 957 FWB's to power a house for a day.

p.s my figure of 14.4 KW HOURS was taken from a sample of figures from the web in the US and seems reasonable.

[nvisser]

Mouser has them listed as non-stocked. In fact the 3020T is not even listed.
3020 hall

Jameco and mouser have a 3040; Bop is where the biggest difference is on the data sheet. It's as close as I was able to find today.
3020 hall

OHS3140U: OPTEK TECHNOLOGY: Electromechanical

I started on the circuit today and realized my halls were only 5 volt. That will never do...
Les

Les
Try something like the A1106.
The integrated voltage regulator permits operation from 3.8 to 24 V.
Reverse battery protection
Vissie

[Michael Kishline]

Over the course of 24 hours, you need 600 watts * 24 hours = 14,400 watt-hours per day or 14.4kW-hours per day.

We are charged by the kW-hour, When you use a 1 kilowatt appliance for 1 hour, that's a kilowatt-hour. If you used it for two hours that would be 2 kWh.

So, over a 24hour period the average home consumes 14.4kW or 14.4kWh or 14,400watts.
I think you over calculated when you said …

“therefore.....a house @ 14.4 KW hours would consume....
14,400 x 3600 x 24 = 1,244,160,000 JOULES in one day”

Remember 14,400 watts is the total watts used over 24hours or 600watts per hour.

Your calculation is 14,400watts x (hour) x (hours). You just over calculated.
It’s not 14,400Wh x (hours) x (hours), it’s just 14,400Wh which is the same as 14,400W per day.

So we were both wrong on the Joules it’s actually 14,400kWh x 3600seconds = 51,840,000Joules/day

Online Conversion - Watt Calculator

Mike

[Michael Kishline]

Over the course of 24 hours, you need 600 watts * 24 hours = 14,400 watt-hours per day or 14.4kW-hours per day.

We are charged by the kW-hour, When you use a 1 kilowatt appliance for 1 hour, that's a kilowatt-hour. If you used it for two hours that would be 2 kWh.

So, over a 24hour period the average home consumes 14.4kW or 14.4kWh or 14,400watts.
I think you over calculated when you said …

“therefore.....a house @ 14.4 KW hours would consume....
14,400 x 3600 x 24 = 1,244,160,000 JOULES in one day”

Remember 14,400 watts is the total watts used over 24hours or 600watts per hour.

Your calculation is 14,400watts x (hour) x (hours). You just over calculated.
It’s not 14,400Wh x (hours) x (hours), it’s just 14,400Wh which is the same as 14,400W per day.

So we were both wrong on the Joules it’s actually 14,400kWh x 3600seconds = 51,840,000Joules/day

Online Conversion - Watt Calculator

Mike

I ment 14,400Wh x 3600seconds = 51,840,000Joules/day

[rave154]

Over the course of 24 hours, you need 600 watts * 24 hours = 14,400 watt-hours per day or 14.4kW-hours per day.

We are charged by the kW-hour, When you use a 1 kilowatt appliance for 1 hour, that's a kilowatt-hour. If you used it for two hours that would be 2 kWh.

So, over a 24hour period the average home consumes 14.4kW or 14.4kWh or 14,400watts.
I think you over calculated when you said …

“therefore.....a house @ 14.4 KW hours would consume....
14,400 x 3600 x 24 = 1,244,160,000 JOULES in one day”

Remember 14,400 watts is the total watts used over 24hours or 600watts per hour.

Your calculation is 14,400watts x (hour) x (hours). You just over calculated.
It’s not 14,400Wh x (hours) x (hours), it’s just 14,400Wh which is the same as 14,400W per day.

So we were both wrong on the Joules it’s actually 14,400kWh x 3600seconds = 51,840,000Joules/day

Online Conversion - Watt Calculator

Mike

Well spotted Mike......you are indeed correct ( i had multiplied by the 24 when there is no need )..and the new numbers compute to.....

1,300,000 (FWB ) / 51,840,000 (house) = 1 / 40 (a smidge under 40)

so you would need just under 40 FWB's to power a house for a day

[nvisser]

Hi Vissie,

I think that the timing wheel magnets are closer than 1 width apart. It's important that the fields can overlap. That way you can get a >50% duty cycle on the hall if you need it. Have a close look at the pic John B posted of the timing wheel with the red lines drawn on it.
I don't think it will work with using the outer magnets to trigger the hall. The timing wheel magnets should be ceramic discs, not neos. I've found that the fields of the ceramic discs spread out from the disc a little bit, so the hall can trigger before it is physically over the magnet.

Good work with the PCB!


John K.

Hi John
You said:
"I think that the timing wheel magnets are closer than 1 width apart. It's important that the fields can overlap. That way you can get a >50% duty cycle on the hall if you need it"
I really don’t get this. If the fields overlap the switch will always be on as the hall will always be switched.
Can you try and explain this to me.
I really don’t know why I assumed the trigger magnets were neos. I can see now it’s black. I do have some of them.
I tested my bipolar switch on a small hardrive SSG with 4 magnets only. I used a neo with a bigger round ceramic of 28mm diameter on top of it and a 4 strand untwisted parallel coil of 1.5 Ohms with the core out in the top and the steel plate in the bottom. I trigger the hall with on the round ceramics and can adjust the pulse width from 80mA to 300mA current draw on 12V.
By adjusting the timing I could get it to run CW when it’s near TDC and when I move it a bit ATDC it will stop when moving slowly and start to spin CCW.
It charges a 14 500 uF cap up to 25V in 5 sec while drawing 200mA from 13v battery which is not bad compared to the same machine with normal coil, magnets and ssg circuit.
This was just to test my circuit. I will mount it on the bigger 16 magnet wheel soon.

[david.brown]

Where does the long pulse of energy come from?

Hi All,

I think I might be asking a silly question but here we go,

Where does the long pulse of energy come from?

I understand to a certain extent that a portion of the energy come from the heavyside component which is generated by the speed of the make/break of the switch, and the expansion of the Bloch Wall when the power is removed from the coils, but when I watch the You Tube video of the machine rotating after the two short pulses there is a long pulse, where does that pulse come from? as far as I can work out the machine is still switching and sending power to the bottom coils, I don’t think that it is the capacitor discharging because in my experience when I discharge a capacitor it discharges with a bang not a slow pulse.

I’m struggling to understand where the discharge comes from.

Thanks for your time and effort.

David Brown (Belfast)

[rave154]

It charges a 14 500 uF cap up to 25V in 5 sec while drawing 200mA from 13v battery which is not bad compared to the same machine with normal coil, magnets and ssg circuit.

This gives 4.53 Joules in the cap for an expenditure of 13 J from the battery...

= efficiency of 4.53 / 13 = 35%

[phishy]

You are such a brilliant Math magician or has someone else got a better expression?

unfortunately not, but you´re quite right vissie.

btw. merry christmas @all

[Les_K]

Les
Try something like the A1106.
The integrated voltage regulator permits operation from 3.8 to 24 V.
Reverse battery protection
Vissie

Actually I just found that the 3120 has same data sheet as the 3020 But I am going to hold tight till John bedini get's back.

OHS3120U Optek Board Mount Hall Effect / Magnetic Sensors

Les

[Les_K]

Hi John
You said:
"I think that the timing wheel magnets are closer than 1 width apart. It's important that the fields can overlap. That way you can get a >50% duty cycle on the hall if you need it"
I really don’t get this. If the fields overlap the switch will always be on as the hall will always be switched.
Can you try and explain this to me.
I really don’t know why I assumed the trigger magnets were neos. I can see now it’s black. I do have some of them.
I tested my bipolar switch on a small hardrive SSG with 4 magnets only. I used a neo with a bigger round ceramic of 28mm diameter on top of it and a 4 strand untwisted parallel coil of 1.5 Ohms with the core out in the top and the steel plate in the bottom. I trigger the hall with on the round ceramics and can adjust the pulse width from 80mA to 300mA current draw on 12V.
By adjusting the timing I could get it to run CW when it’s near TDC and when I move it a bit ATDC it will stop when moving slowly and start to spin CCW.
It charges a 14 500 uF cap up to 25V in 5 sec while drawing 200mA from 13v battery which is not bad compared to the same machine with normal coil, magnets and ssg circuit.
This was just to test my circuit. I will mount it on the bigger 16 magnet wheel soon.

Take a look at the data sheets for the hall switches. Pay close attention to the difference between Bi-Polar and Uni_polar. Might clear it up a bit, since the 3020 is a Uni-Polar device this might explain some of the timing.

Les

[Mark]

I have the same question as Nvisser. Wont the switch always be on if the field overlaps. Same thing with the 23 DEG past TDC, how can you set your timing to 23 DEG when the magnets are 22.5 degrees apart? You dont have 23 degrees to work with.

IN post #36 JB states the machine is set up to emit between 6.85 to 7.1 HZ and the RPM is between 16.8 to 18. Can someone show me the math on this.

In post #57 JB shows 3 halls and dwell timing. 3 pulses, small, medium and a large one. This is just an illustration of the 3 coils on the bottom, correct, we are not working with 3 halls.

I'm sorry if these question are stupid but I'm really trying to wrap my head around this and am going back thru the whole thread to try and comprehend the function of everything. Please help me out.

Thanks, Mark

[Michael Kishline]

Hall Dwell Arrangment

Hi John
You said:
"I think that the timing wheel magnets are closer than 1 width apart. It's important that the fields can overlap. That way you can get a >50% duty cycle on the hall if you need it"
I really don’t get this. If the fields overlap the switch will always be on as the hall will always be switched.
Can you try and explain this to me.
I really don’t know why I assumed the trigger magnets were neos. I can see now it’s black. I do have some of them.
I tested my bipolar switch on a small hardrive SSG with 4 magnets only. I used a neo with a bigger round ceramic of 28mm diameter on top of it and a 4 strand untwisted parallel coil of 1.5 Ohms with the core out in the top and the steel plate in the bottom. I trigger the hall with on the round ceramics and can adjust the pulse width from 80mA to 300mA current draw on 12V.
By adjusting the timing I could get it to run CW when it’s near TDC and when I move it a bit ATDC it will stop when moving slowly and start to spin CCW.
It charges a 14 500 uF cap up to 25V in 5 sec while drawing 200mA from 13v battery which is not bad compared to the same machine with normal coil, magnets and ssg circuit.
This was just to test my circuit. I will mount it on the bigger 16 magnet wheel soon.

Greetings Vissie,

As you know the flat ferrite discs gives off a toroidal (donut) shape field, so the Hall will catch the edge of the field to set the dwell, and if there is any vertical adjustment on the switch that will also lend to it's precision setting.

This is how it works in my head anyway!

Mike
Merry Christmas to all!
P1010575_renamed_23387.jpg

[redrichie]

@all with the component questions. help me here
Doesnt the Potentialtech website carry the required parts? If the Hall is to be quick and sensitive and responsive the BOP should be as low as possible correct? My knowledge on this is only what I researched. But the hall offered at PT has a dash for min BOP, which im understanding to be a virtually non existent Gauss rating. Isnt that what we're looking for? Or would having a little magnetic "reluctance" in the Hall result in a sharper switch involved?
forgive my ignorance on this. Im not sure how much of a difference 40-50 Gauss would make in a application such as this.

[ren]

would just like to post this for everyone. its from the Potentialtec website. i think it gives a few answers for dummies like me.
It mentions using actual trigger coils, separated for timing. is there anything wrong with doing it this way. Not trying to get off track. Just remember in an EFTV vid John explaining the trigger when wound with the coil, and it firing at 23 degrees. if the halls are to trigger at 23 degrees and the trigger coil fires 23 degrees after TDC then what is the difference? are halls just more precise? we can adjust the "on" time with the dwell of the disk magnets? anything else?
Also not sure if its related at all, but the Earth is tilted on its axis at 23 degrees.

Hi Red.

You can get this circuit running on a trigger coil to start with if you like.

Halls will give you a much better result and allow for adjusting of timing and pulse width on the fly, a very useful tool. The trigger coil works great with the SG but the bipolar circuit works better with a hall imo.

Ive used (and gave John K) the SS43a hall (Allegro) and it works good. Its rated for up to 24v input, though I usually regulate this anyway.

Make sure you read up on halls, especially LATCHING AND NON-LATCHING. You need to figure out which side of the magnet triggers the hall. You can make a simple circuit up with a PNP and a led then run your hall over a magnet to check.

regards

(still no net at home thanks to lightning strike... )