Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[genessc]

Hi Gyula,

Thanks for the reply. Given your example then, if 1J is 1 watt of power discharged for a period of 1 second based on a cumulative circuit impedance of 1ohm, and with the only change to the circuit being the cumulative impedance being reduced to .1ohm and now we have 10 times the watts for the same 1 second of ON time, is that correct?

Now if we change the cumulative impedance to be .00023 ohms (or for ease of math, lets just say .001 ohms) and everything else stays the same, we now have 1000watts output for that 1 second of ON time?

I know we don't use such a slow duty to allow for 1 second of ON time and 1 second of OFF time, but this facilitates an explanation of discharging of caps into a cumulative circuit impedance. (tho some of JB's circuits run at about 3hz or so)

Is there a concept of Current "Density" with capacitive discharge? In some cap discharge circuits one notes a small capacity of 3-10uF and this capacity charges rapidly to a couple hundred volts and is then discharged into a 12volt battery. This happens pretty rapidly in terms of frequency because a small cap climbs to higher voltages faster than a large cap. So the benefit to using a small cap is to get high volt pulses at a relatively high rate of repetition. However this small caps discharges have a "lack of current density" as I've termed it. There is not sufficient Current in phase with the voltage discharge to do work.

Then I can switch that 10uF cap out for a 2400uF cap and this one takes longer to charge up, but the discharge pulses have a much more significant current "density" in their capacity to do work. The larger cap reaches the same max charge voltage but is offset in the extended time it takes to reach that peak voltage. More often this cap is regulated to only charge as JB has noted to double the voltage which keeps the frequency of discharge higher than if the larger cap was allowed to fill to the peak possible voltage.

In summation it seems to really charge batteries well one needs to use larger 10,000uF or so sized caps as this is what is doing the direct conversion to the current "density". The frequency drops but the power per discharge is increased significantly given the cophased volts/current per discharge from the large 10,000uF cap versus the small 10uF cap.

Is this observation inline with others on here?

Thanks again for the reply.
Gene

The Joule figure means Wattsecond, so 1J energy means 1Watt power under 1 second, OR ANY combination of two numbers that give 1J when multiplied together. So taking out 1J energy from a capacitor (that stores 1J) under 0.1 second means that you can take out 10W (10W*0.1s=1Ws=1J).
And you can take out this with a switch that is controlled with a given duty cycle, what count is how long one ON time of the switch lasts and how many ON times you let occur within the given total time.
Of course, the amplitude of the current you take out with the controlled switch depends on the total impedance the closed circuit lets develop, including the summed DC resistances of the switch and the capacitor's series resistance and any AC impedance also in series like the combined DC - AC impedance part of the battery, wires etc.

[gyula]

Hi Gene,

In my answer the example of 1J was not assigned to any impedance or current value. You cannot assume if the impedance is reduced to .1 Ohm then we have 10 times the watts for the same 1 second, please forget it. You can have 10 times the power i.e. 10W if you take it out from the cap in .1 second, ok? Manipulation of Watt times second.

Gyula

Hi Gyula,

Thanks for the reply. Given your example then, if 1J is 1 watt of power discharged for a period of 1 second based on a cumulative circuit impedance of 1ohm, and with the only change to the circuit being the cumulative impedance being reduced to .1ohm and now we have 10 times the watts for the same 1 second of ON time, is that correct?
...snip...

[genessc]

I understand that my use of 1Joule was arbitrary and not tied to any of the circuit componentry. The 1 Joule was just taken as an example of charge in any sized cap at any volt/uF format.

1 Joule is 1 watt delivered for 1 second of time. Regardless of any circuit component, this is the case.

I believe I stated the conditions to have 10 watts in 1 second correctly, didn't I? The only thing that changes is the overall circuit impedance and you end up with more power or less power, from that same 1 Joule of power, right?

I don't understand how the change of circuit impedance to .1 ohm with all other circuit aspects the same as noted in your example doesn't automatically make the 1 watt for 1 second now 10 watts for 1 second.

What factors/aspects am I missing?

Oh nevermind. I see... the manipulation then is in Time. However its not necessarily tied to the DUTY Cycle is it? It is because the full charge of 1 Joule was discharged in .1 second... but then is the .1 second the same as the .1ohm resistance? Is resistance time?

Could not the same thing be achieved by just lowering the circuit impedance to .1ohms while retaining the 1 second ON duty for the discharge? Wouldn't the result be that the 10watts was delivered instantly at turn ON and slowly tapered down sorta like the 5Time Constants idea? Or is the loss evinced because the Duty was on 9/10s of a second more than it needed to be?

Sorry for the questions, just trying to make sure I understand the concept.
Gene

Something isn't adding up for me.

Thanks,
Gene

Hi Gene,

In my answer the example of 1J was not assigned to any impedance or current value. You cannot assume if the impedance is reduced to .1 Ohm then we have 10 times the watts for the same 1 second, please forget it. You can have 10 times the power i.e. 10W if you take it out from the cap in .1 second, ok? Manipulation of Watt times second.

Gyula

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

Gyula,Gene

I guess you have summed it up with the figures right to the book. Now please consider the non-linear situation presented by each and every battery. The impedance changes from second to second. So the waveform is never the same. I show this in some of the DVD's as the wave and spikes keep changing. I agree that you have it down on this one. The loss will be in the switching device and capacitor so everything must be matched.

Yes you can Parallel Transistors and it will make a difference. It's just like amplifiers you do not want just one device doing all the work, the reason for emitter resistors to balance the Currents. If you get just one transistor with more gain then the others it will heat and fail. But since I use that switch all the time it can be balanced out. I must find a way to post some of Cole's drawings, I will work on that tonight.

OH I forgot to say yes it is tied to duty cycle of the output switch as it is the time it's on for the dump. Look at PWM controllers.
John B
John B

[John_K]

It's what you get out of the battery that counts

Hi All,

Interesting series of posts, thanks all.

I just wanted to point out that regardless of the maths and formulae, at the end of the day it's how much you can get out of the battery powering a load that counts.

John B is absolutley right, the common lead-acid battery is a non-linear device so some of the rules don't apply. I have to agree with him, it's the signal that we are sending to the battery to get the ions to move that is important, not the amount of "current" we belt it with. This signal tells the battery to charge. As John B has said in the past, the battery has all the electrons it needs, we don't need to give it any more.

He's also dead right about the type and condition of the battery. For example, I had my S1GT running on large GOOD 130Ah flooded deep cycle batteries last week. I had three in series at 36V. I could run the S1GT at 36V input, all 4 windings on the main coil connected and a 2 x 6,800uF 50V caps in parallel for the store and dump, using the SCR/zener/LEDs switching to dump it. The SCR would NEVER latch on.

Last night I hooked up 3 12V 7Ah gel-cells in series and could only run exactly the same circuit with 12V primary, only 1 winding on the main coil and 6,800uF 50V cap, otherwise the SCR would latch on. The gel-cells are not new and have a few years of abuse with various different builds. They are probably half dried out. I only use them as lab rats to see if the circuit works.

I took a video of this on my phone but it was too big and I can't upload it so I will have to do it again tonight.

The lesson I learned was that the batteries are very much part of the circuit. To get good results, you need good batteries and you need to work them.

I don't want to sound like a Mr. Knowitall because I'm defintely not but don't get too hung up on the math. There are too many variables that will drive you crazy if you try and work it out.
The only real test you can do is charge the battery up to at least 14.5V and then load test it to see how much energy you can get out of powering a real load. This is believe is one of the most fundamental things people miss when doing this research.


John K.

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

Sorry off subject of Joules for a moment....

John K,
Some very Interesting things have happened to the rock battery, Transmutation has taken place with the magnesium, the magnesium will no longer burn, as it is not magnesium it looks like it.

The funny thing I think it's now silver as it seem to reacts the same way. What ever was in the Pyrite has now changed the magnesium, it's a soft material like gold or silver not lead. The rock is no longer Pyrite either, the Pyrite has a silver luster to it and no longer works as Iron pyrite.

Tom Bearden has said this before and I have done the experiments on minerals to prove that. It's that little spike that science refuses to look at. I have seen this happen in batteries when they had clear cases you could see the plates change and watch the plating take place. Hell your whole nervous system works on that little spike before the energy in EM appears.This is a real head scratchier. And Iron Pyrite is a mysterious rock. More experiments to find out what it is.
John B

[BrentA929]

Negative Switching

John B,

Thanks for the clarity...

So, are you saying that you are just trying to test and replicate the circuitry that Mathew Jones has posted by building your own SSR with the listed components?

I am a little confused and trying to make sense of what you are saying. I went back and looked at where Mathew Jones had posted that. I think Nvisser had done some of the same stuff with the SSR and also posted a schematic of his idea of a FET pulser.

I remember you saying that a FET and zener will work just fine. Is the attached schematic more in line with that statement? And are you saying that a FET will work better than a SCR?

BTW, our spools came in today!!! YEAH!!! Let the winding begin...


Thanks, Brent

Brent,
I'm talking about making a solid state relay for the switching.
The Fet would get around the problems with the SCR.Mathew Jones shows the circuit a few pages back, but that solid state relay is costly so we could make that with the opto and the regulator for the gate voltage and the resistor to pull the gate off. The way around his circuit for timing is a SIDAC at 40 to 60 volts to fire the opto when the capacitor reaches the correct voltage. that is the switch I'm working on. NTE makes that part NTE6415. The higher the voltage the better, then the battery will charge fast that is what we want. Capacitor dump circuits must be double in voltage or very close to it.

John B

[redrichie]

Good luck Brent. Looks like you got your work cut out for you.

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

Brent,
This is what I'm saying , I would to prefer to use the Fet as it is not as much trouble as the SCR. I would not worry about putting real sulphated batteries on the output of the machine with the Fet. This is not real hard to make.
I'm trying to make this as simple as possible here and not winding everybody up with all this math that does not apply to non-linear systems. Not that I do not use the math, I do but not here at this moment.

I said I was using a Fet in the control box it works just fine, I'm saying how I want to change it to trigger with a SIDAC instead of capacitor timing like Mathew Jones did it.

Redrichie, have you built one of these machines because I don't know how many have ever built an SG's here, except for RS, John K Chuck H, this is not a big deal to do as all the circuits have been working for a long time.
People change things and get mixed results.

I never change anything until I get it working like Lasersabers battery, which is still working with just water.That device has given many hours of energy for the price of water, but it could be rain. It takes time to get these thing working. Chuck H helped me at work to get that big GT3 running it's not easy to adjust but once it's right you can walk away from it and let it charge.

Chuck H at work has built simple ones and they work. What I'm trying to point out here is the energy is everywhere you just need the right pump for the job. The little experiments I'm doing on Youtube should show that.
Your machine will work with those big coils. No one has coils that big on SG machines except Me at this point, Your next to do it. I have faith it will work.
John B

[wrench76]

engine cover battery

@ all, I just uploaded a video of my engine cover battery in action. I just had to build a motor for it after see John Bs. It has been running for almost 24 hours, but this battery had run a joule thief with a few leds for months before this.
Thanks to everyone here for all the great ideas.

YouTube - 100_1690.MOV

P.S. Good luck with the winding Brent.



Brian

[John_K]

Hi John B,

Thanks for the update. That is amazing. I've seen your transmutation DVD and it does make me scratch my head.

I'm going to the crystal shop tomorrow to get some Iron Pyrite and see what they have in Magnesium that I can experiment with. If you have any other suggested crystals or minerals I could play with let me know and I'll get them at the same time. My wife can buy them wholesale.

Crystal Universe - Wholesale Crystals, Crystal Products, Minerals, Fossils, Meteorites, Rare Geological Specimens, Jewellery and much more


John K.

Sorry off subject of Joules for a moment....

John K,
Some very Interesting things have happened to the rock battery, Transmutation has taken place with the magnesium, the magnesium will no longer burn, as it is not magnesium it looks like it.

The funny thing I think it's now silver as it seem to reacts the same way. What ever was in the Pyrite has now changed the magnesium, it's a soft material like gold or silver not lead. The rock is no longer Pyrite either, the Pyrite has a silver luster to it and no longer works as Iron pyrite.

Tom Bearden has said this before and I have done the experiments on minerals to prove that. It's that little spike that science refuses to look at. I have seen this happen in batteries when they had clear cases you could see the plates change and watch the plating take place. Hell your whole nervous system works on that little spike before the energy in EM appears.This is a real head scratchier. And Iron Pyrite is a mysterious rock. More experiments to find out what it is.
John B

[FRC]

Dvd

I also saw John's transmutation DVD. It is amazing, I have previously studied
some of the alchemists, my screen name has a connection to that, for those
who no what those letters stand for. I am just wondering if John will have the
metal assayed ? Or will that remain a mystery for us to find out on our own ?
It is almost a daily occurance of new and exciting discoveries on this thread.
Hope it continues.

FRC

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

FRC,
Chuck is going to look at it tomorrow, I can not burn the magnesium I checked it with another piece of Magnesium it burns right up. Yes I will tell you what it is. That is right this should all be fun in this field it's never ending.
John B

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

Wrench 76,
That is great look at that battery what more could you ask for. This Battery Lasersaber has done is working really good, I'm now charging a 9 volt alkaline battery with it I have it up to 8 volts it was dead in one of my meters it measured two volts, so Wrench charge something with that.
John B

[wrench76]

Thanks John B You have inspired me in many fields, I started with a ssg then moved on to building audio and guitar amps. And guess who I find once again. I truly believe if you guys want to get a better understanding how these components work build some small audio amps. Sorry to be off topic. I have the motor charging a 12 14Ah battery right now, It Is Charging Slowly but steady, its only been on for 30 min. so Ill keep you posted.


Brian