Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[genessc]

Mark, Thanks man. I pulled that schematic and will study it. I need to go back thru and find the listing for the Hall sensor and the LED's since those aren't called out explicitly on the schematic. I know they're on the thread here somewhere. It looks like all the other components are detailed in that schemo from John K. (Thanks John K.!)

As regards magnets, Ceramics have a less dense field but a greater reach to their field than the neo magnets do. Neos seem to have a greater density but also a more compacted field set. Theres a book that beardens company publishes that is a reprint of Howard Johnsons magnetic field plotting work that might be useful as it shows how the fields look on various types of magnets. Samarium cobalt magnets appear to be sort of a cross in that they have a stronger field than ceramics, but also have a larger field reach than neos...

I wonder if the Ferris wheel can be done on a 6 inch all north out rotor? I don't have the means to build such a large diameter wheel as yet..(money reasons) It might be interesting if one could make an aluminum rotor with space cutout behind the ceramic slot for a neo to be fitted in. I wonder what the sine would look like in that case off the rotor at speed...

Anyways thanks again.
Gene

Gene, Check pg. 28 post 828. Thats what I am working with right now.
And there has been several Schematics shared. Pick one...

Every one else,
I do have this self starting, But it was running to fast.
So I moved the coils further from the magnets and re-tuned it. I over heated
the transistors and replaced them. Now it does not start as well. I did get the cap to dump better,
but it is tricky to get every thing right.
I have tried many different sized caps, but when you adjust the timing a
different size cap is needed to pick the charging back up.
The more I change things around it seems the futher I get from being right.
So I will go back and set it up from the begining. I does seem to charge better with the coils further away.
It seems the stronger part of the field is not close to the magnets.
Something else to concider.

Mark

[Rl2003]

@ Mark
I do not know if you are using the Zenier,Capacitor,LED dump or not. If you are I have been able to change the Zenier combo and get it close to the charge battery voltage in combo with the LED (2.4 to 3volt LED) and then tune your Capacitance from there. I have used 4.7V Zeniers in series with others and the LED and get it real close. Retard your timing and you may find a sweet spot. Don't know if this helps or not but thought I would put info out there...

Chuck,

Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, I am using this combination of Zen/Led/Cap dump.
I was thinking that I needed to replace the Zen. I did replace the LEDs
but left the Zen alone. I am still not 100% on this combo as it is new to me.
I have a 1n4731 4.3v in there now, that was what I had at the moment. I got
some other 1n4733 5.1 v to try and ordered some others to have on hand.
I am not sure of the LED's Voltage, they are Super Bright LED's I got last year.
I will try a couple different combos.
I also am waiting for some parts to try the Mosfet/Opto/Zen package deal.
I didn't have any Sidactors, it looks like protection for the opto??

As far as Retarding the timing it seems that makes the amp draw higher on the
primarys. And then the transistors heat up. Advancing brings it down to a low
of about 150-300 ma. Hall firing closer to TDC(advancing) further away (retarding).
Are we on the same page??

Mark

[Rl2003]

Schematic change

Mark, Thanks man. I pulled that schematic and will study it. I need to go back thru and find the listing for the Hall sensor and the LED's since those aren't called out explicitly on the schematic. I know they're on the thread here somewhere. It looks like all the other components are detailed in that schemo from John K. (Thanks John K.!)


One small change Gene, flip the two LED's around. That worked for me.



I wonder if the Ferris wheel can be done on a 6 inch all north out rotor? I don't have the means to build such a large diameter wheel as yet..(money reasons) It might be interesting if one could make an aluminum rotor with space cutout behind the ceramic slot for a neo to be fitted in. I wonder what the sine would look like in that case off the rotor at speed...

Anyways thanks again.
Gene

Like John has said "this needs to be on a larger scale", or more weigth than a
bike wheel. This needs momentuim to work with. I will be adding some thing
to my wheel, I just haven't done it.
Power and Phone company's give away those big spools. I bevieve they would
work for someone on a limited buget. Just take off one side and use that. You could make two.
Every one needs to build this, it doesn't have to be costly. Just build it..

Mark

[genessc]

Hi Mark,

I see. A 6inch diameter aluminum rotor is about 11lbs... a bit more than a bike wheel. I don't have another rotor on hand but was just curious if that was plausible. I do have an 8inch diameter x 3inch thick aluminum round that I was planning to get machined into a rotor at some point... its maybe 15lbs or so.

So momentum=inertia=weight on the rotor. This would be to allow the "DC pulses" to even out huh while still maintaining rotation within a limited range of RPM.

I do have a company nearby that has the big wooden spools outside... but I couldn't fit one of those in my car if I wanted to. They're like 4 feet in diameter and a few feet tall.

I found the Hall sensor from this thread as being noted to be the ATS137-pl-a-a from Mouser. (back on page 30.)

I've also noted your comment to reverse the LED's on the output stage, which makes sense since they are otherwise blocking the discharge to the gate of the SCR. cool. Thanks for the correction.

Is your bike wheel using ceramic magnets for the face and neos behind it?

Anyone make a bike wheel with abec 7 rated bearings?

Thanks again.
Gene

Like John has said "this needs to be on a larger scale", or more weigth than a
bike wheel. This needs momentuim to work with. I will be adding some thing
to my wheel, I just haven't done it.
Power and Phone company's give away those big spools. I bevieve they would
work for someone on a limited buget. Just take off one side and use that. You could make two.
Every one needs to build this, it doesn't have to be costly. Just build it..

Mark

[Rl2003]

Hi Mark,

I see. A 6inch diameter aluminum rotor is about 11lbs... a bit more than a bike wheel. I don't have another rotor on hand but was just curious if that was plausible. I do have an 8inch diameter x 3inch thick aluminum round that I was planning to get machined into a rotor at some point... its maybe 15lbs or so.

So momentum=inertia=weight on the rotor. This would be to allow the "DC pulses" to even out huh while still maintaining rotation within a limited range of RPM.

I do have a company nearby that has the big wooden spools outside... but I couldn't fit one of those in my car if I wanted to. They're like 4 feet in diameter and a few feet tall.

I found the Hall sensor from this thread as being noted to be the ATS137-pl-a-a from Mouser. (back on page 30.)

I've also noted your comment to reverse the LED's on the output stage, which makes sense since they are otherwise blocking the discharge to the gate of the SCR. cool. Thanks for the correction.

Is your bike wheel using ceramic magnets for the face and neos behind it?

Anyone make a bike wheel with abec 7 rated bearings?

Thanks again.
Gene

Gene,
First the hall that I am using I got at DigiKey, P/N 365-1003-nd.


Second I believe John set this circuit up to charge on the neg. side of the
battery, but maybe he can address that.
Also did the zener need to be turned around as well??

There is someone on this forum that has the 3 coil Bedini motor,
that has it running on this circuit. How well it runs is another question.
I would not go that small, for the time you will put into this. Find an
old bike, somewhere. Go to a bike shop and ask them. Lots of times
they throw older ones away.
My wheel has to stock bearings in them, and it spins a long while after
turning it off.

Yes, Both magnets in there. I posted a while back the spec.s on that.
Same Ceramics that every one uses on the monopoles.

Mark

[genessc]

Mark,

Thanks for the info. I placed an order for all the semiconductors so will just have to sort out the rotor.

Yeah the charging battery from John K's schemo shows that the SCR is on the negative pole of the charging battery. The Zener is correct in its position as its meant to require that the voltage get high enough to break over the zeners rated voltage and then trigger the gate. The LED's were wrong tho and needed to be reversed to let the positive potential get up to the Zener or it might never fire. (it it did it would probably be due to the LED's burning out and then it would end up being on all the time, dead short.)

Thanks for the info.
Gene

Gene,
First the hall that I am using I got at DigiKey, P/N 365-1003-nd.


Second I believe John set this circuit up to charge on the neg. side of the
battery, but maybe he can address that.
Also did the zener need to be turned around as well??

There is someone on this forum that has the 3 coil Bedini motor,
that has it running on this circuit. How well it runs is another question.
I would not go that small, for the time you will put into this. Find an
old bike, somewhere. Go to a bike shop and ask them. Lots of times
they throw older ones away.
My wheel has to stock bearings in them, and it spins a long while after
turning it off.

Yes, Both magnets in there. I posted a while back the spec.s on that.
Same Ceramics that every one uses on the monopoles.

Mark

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

Mark,

I'm limited on bandwidth here as I'm at my limit, but yes, I charge all the batteries from the negative side. I put the full potential across the battery and then switch it negative. I use the energy from the positive to power the switching on the front. Hope this helps.
John B

[Rl2003]

Clarity

Mark,

I'm limited on bandwidth here as I'm at my limit, but yes, I charge all the batteries from the negative side. I put the full potential across the battery and then switch it negative. I use the energy from the positive to power the switching on the front. Hope this helps.
John B

John, Thanks for the Clarity.
I know you have said this several times, and at the conv. as well. But I did not fully
understand it until now. Almost like a fog in my brain, that would not allow me
to put two and two together. Thanks again for sticking with this group.
I have a few things to correct and fix, but believe I am close to having this
stage working well..
Mark

[minoly]

Micro 3GT self start:
YouTube - min2oly's Channel
15 second shot to show it can be done quick and easy even on a small scale. had to re-cannibalize.

Patrick

[minoly]

moving up

John B.,
We have a question about the winds being connected in parallel. Do you have a separate ckt for each of the strands, for a total of 6 half bipolar ckts switched off of the one hall? much like you do the large SG builds?
Or do you terminate all strands directly to one ckt – or any combination thereof?
We’re moving from the Micro GT and on to a Mini GT and we need to order up some more MJL’s if you are paralleling the winds w/ separate ckts.
Thanks,
Patrick

[iankoglin]

I am waiting for the electronic parts for my S1GT build and am following all the posts.


Kindest Regards Kogs

D'Day All

Here are the pics of my KogsS1GT
Pictures by Kogs1 - Photobucket

While I was waiting for the electronic parts to build my circuit On my S1GT I mounted an 11 filar coil along with its SSG circuit to suit. The coil is made up of 2 times 130 feet? of 5 x .8mm litz wire and one .56mm trigger wire and 1 MJL21194 transistor per strand it worked Fine. But when I replaced the trigger wire with the hall the wheel went round BUT all the transistors all got hot I moved the coil in and out also adjusted the hall position to no avail, I quit with that episode.

I now have received the electronic components for my BediniS1GT and now have assembled the circuit I tried it. The coil I built was all the wire I had left over from previous builds 600 feet of 5 x .8mm litz. ( I know we are told not to use twisted wire but this is all I had and I need to experiment first as I have still to decide what wire I need to purchase before I order any) The coil former is 135mm high 120mm diam with a core size of 55mm the core R60 rods protruding 50mm above the former and the Iron plate mounted at the bottom of the coil bent to form at 45deg on the 2 sides.
When I ran it the Transistors got hot and the hall seemed to have latched on I thought that I perhaps may not have built the circuit properly. I removed the circuit and replaced it with one I had built, a simple circuit to test the hall one to drive the wheel as a motor, just simple so as to test the magnet arrangement to fire the halls. I had used a halI that latches on when I was building so as to be able learn how the hall worked so as to install it correctly.
Immediately I found that the hall was a latching one I had fitted the wrong one then after replacing it with a correct one I still had the problem the transistors got very very hot. After trying again to move the hall and coil to I still could not rectify the problem so I decided to alter the coil I joined 2 x 2 wires in series so now my coil is made of 2 strands 1200 feet long and 1 strand 600 feet long I left the 1 strand loose and connected the other 2 strands now 1200 feet each in parallel and connected them to the circuit.

Now I was able to adjust the coil and the hall so the 1 transistor did not get hot I ran it all day and it still did not get hot. The revs were constant at 5.6 The amps fluctuated from .02 to 0.8 The battery a 12 volt remained constant 12.42 for 6 hours then dropped to 12.39 after another 2 hours.
I measured 5 strands 600 feet 5 x .8mm litz parallel was 1.296 ohms
The 2 strands 1200 feet parallel was 3.8 ohms

The next thing I have to do is now build the charging

[erikbuch]

Great work Kogs! Your a magician with wood!!
Is it MDF you are using? What is the weight of the wheel approximately?

Best regards
Erik

[John_K]

Big Bedini Machine (3GT)

Hi Kogs,

I have some ATS137 halls that John B suggested arriving this week. I'll send you down a couple you can play with. Ren, you can have a couple too.

You could also try paralleling the 2 1200ft strands which should give you 1.9 ohms, which is in John B's ballpark. Just a thought.


John K.

D'Day All

Here are the pics of my KogsS1GT
Pictures by Kogs1 - Photobucket

While I was waiting for the electronic parts to build my circuit On my S1GT I mounted an 11 filar coil along with its SSG circuit to suit. The coil is made up of 2 times 130 feet? of 5 x .8mm litz wire and one .56mm trigger wire and 1 MJL21194 transistor per strand it worked Fine. But when I replaced the trigger wire with the hall the wheel went round BUT all the transistors all got hot I moved the coil in and out also adjusted the hall position to no avail, I quit with that episode.

I now have received the electronic components for my BediniS1GT and now have assembled the circuit I tried it. The coil I built was all the wire I had left over from previous builds 600 feet of 5 x .8mm litz. ( I know we are told not to use twisted wire but this is all I had and I need to experiment first as I have still to decide what wire I need to purchase before I order any) The coil former is 135mm high 120mm diam with a core size of 55mm the core R60 rods protruding 50mm above the former and the Iron plate mounted at the bottom of the coil bent to form at 45deg on the 2 sides.
When I ran it the Transistors got hot and the hall seemed to have latched on I thought that I perhaps may not have built the circuit properly. I removed the circuit and replaced it with one I had built, a simple circuit to test the hall one to drive the wheel as a motor, just simple so as to test the magnet arrangement to fire the halls. I had used a halI that latches on when I was building so as to be able learn how the hall worked so as to install it correctly.
Immediately I found that the hall was a latching one I had fitted the wrong one then after replacing it with a correct one I still had the problem the transistors got very very hot. After trying again to move the hall and coil to I still could not rectify the problem so I decided to alter the coil I joined 2 x 2 wires in series so now my coil is made of 2 strands 1200 feet long and 1 strand 600 feet long I left the 1 strand loose and connected the other 2 strands 600foot in parallel and connected them to the circuit.

Now I was able to adjust the coil and the hall so the 1 transistor did not get hot I ran it all day and it still did not get hot. The revs were constant at 5.6 The amps fluctuated from .02 to 0.8 The battery a 12 volt remained constant 12.42 for 6 hours then dropped to 12.39 after another 2 hours.
I measured 5 strands 600 feet 5 x .8mm litz parallel was 1.296 ohms
The 2 strands 1200 feet parallel was 3.8 ohms

The next thing I have to do is now build the charging

[John_K]

Big Bedini Machine (3GT)

John B.,
We have a question about the winds being connected in parallel. Do you have a separate ckt for each of the strands, for a total of 6 half bipolar ckts switched off of the one hall? much like you do the large SG builds?
Or do you terminate all strands directly to one ckt – or any combination thereof?
We’re moving from the Micro GT and on to a Mini GT and we need to order up some more MJL’s if you are paralleling the winds w/ separate ckts.
Thanks,
Patrick

Hi P'n'S,

I don't want to hijack your post, but take a look at the first picture on post #12. It shows 2 thick wires from the main coil, one red and one black. This would suggest that all the wires are paralleled together into one (modified) Bedini/Cole circuit.

I think that John B is using the 2 slave coils for the mag amp which is why they are offset. He did say the machine is running in interferometer mode, which is mixing waveforms that are slightly out of phase, which in my mind fits in with the mag amp theory.

Just my ramblings, I could be on the wrong tram...


John K.

[minoly]

That’s what get’s us “one (modified) Bedini/Cole circuit”
“modified”

We’re conflicted with posts 200, 807
Post 20
“The currents are not important here in the front-end as this current is limited by the isolation of the power supply rails by the BEDINI/COLE switch. Using the term BACK EMF is meaningless as it does not apply to this machine or any SSG.The speed of the machine is also not important,it's the overlapping of the switching that is important in the dwell angle. This is equivalent to a car distributor and it better be set right.”

And another post we can not find. Where John talks about what drove GE nuts and how on the SG that is why there is a different Transistor for each wire.
then the 2000 paralleled wire's on the lawnmower - again with the "modified" BC switch.

I guess we read too much into it, it does state clearly in 755 “the center coil has four wires on it. The two outer coils have one wire each and that they are all hooked in parallel to form one inductor.”

John B. I don’t blame you if you flame me for this. I've never been one to sit at the font of the class and ask "dumb" questions, I just can't get this one out of my head.
Thanks,
P’n’S