Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[iankoglin]

Hey everyone!


How is everyone else's builds coming along? It has been pretty quiet in this thread.

Thanks,
Scott

G'Day Scott, Brent

Good to see you are doing well with your machine.

I have been tied up with work and I have not been able to do much.
I finally got my circuit working The wheel spins @10.4 revs/min the cap charges to 82v and discharges every 23 secs The caps are 2 1700 uf cap connected in parallel the SCR is TYN825 the transistors are MJE2955, MJL21193, MJL21194 and it runs nicely it charges very slowly.
I can hardly wait to wind my coils.
I have also purchased 2 17000 uf 75v caps they should arrive in 2 weeks.

How did you wind your coils? and What are the size of your magnets?
When I first joined this list I was trying to find out what size magnets I should have for my 4' wheel and the specs on the coils.

I have now the Specs of the coils But I have never seen JB's Machine and do not know what size his magnets are.
I feel that the magnets in my machine will not be big enough for the big coils


The connections on the battery

I made up a cap pulsing segment to try out and found various things.

I have found that when I use large alligator type clips sometimes they do not connect properly and because of this the SCR does not switch off and therefore acts like it's not even in the circuit, also sometimes because there is not a proper connection the SCR does not trigger and the volts keep rising.
When I push hard on the battery connectors and twist them so there is a good connection then the SCR works correctly. Even when I had a screw terminal with the wire attached if it did not make a good connection it would spark once and not again, the cap would either not fire again or the SCR seemed to be open and the current was continually pulsing directly to the battery as if the SCR was not there.

Battery voltage
I have also found that the charge battery voltage if it is too low makes a difference and the SCR does not work correctly until the voltage comes up a bit. So using batteries in series worked better (higher voltage)

Cap not discharging quick enough
Also I have used this same cap pulsar segment on my 6 coiler and found that the voltage seems to raise up to switch the SCR then the voltage does not come down quick enough so that the SCR switches off

Also I used the 1700 uf cap worked but when I connected 2 in parallel worked better.

Kindest regards Kogs

[Web000x]

Battery voltage
I have also found that the charge battery voltage if it is too low makes a difference and the SCR does not work correctly until the voltage comes up a bit. So using batteries in series worked better (higher voltage)

For the half bipolar circuit, the secondary must be very close in voltage to the primary. If the secondary is too low of a voltage, hot electron current will flow into the charging battery keeping the SCR switched on.

I had thought my wheel was doing REALLY well before I analyzed the circuit further and found this was happening.

The secondary battery voltage should at the very least be:
SECONDARY VOLTAGE >= (PRIMARY VOLTAGE) - (TRANSISTOR VOLTAGE DROP) - (FW BRIDGE RECTIFIER VOLTAGE DROP).

Anything lower than that will be a conventional style charging.

Dave

[BrentA929]

Magnets and coils

Hey Kogs,

Glad to hear that your build is coming along...

I can tell you what we did and what we got, whether it is right is a whole different thing.


Magnets - Ceramics 6" x 2" x 1" and Neos 2" x 1" x 1/2"

Coils - we wound our coils like Rick has always shown. Start at the bottom and finish at the top. Wire goes around the spool in a clockwise direction when looking at the top of the coil. All wires wound together on the main coil at the same time.


Hope this helps!


Thanks, Brent

How did you wind your coils? and What are the size of your magnets?


Kindest regards Kogs

[txaggie00]

Sorry Kogs

@Kogs,
Sorry, I didn't mean to leave you off the list when I was checking on everyone's builds. I'm not sure if you were asking how to wind the coils, or what we used to assist us in winding those big coils, but since Brent answered to former, I'll answer the latter. We actually used an 12VDC ATV winch to wind them. We had to modify it slightly to get the reels inline with the motor gears, but it worked like a champ. I can't imagine doing it by hand! It sounds like you are excited to start winding, but trust me, you'll be even more excited when you're done!

@Dave,
We have been pretty busy lately, but I'll try to get a scope shot picture/video for you. It would be nice to get it timed right.

Thanks,
Scott

[Annagyijjk]

Yes the cores are bonded to the metal plate on the back.

[minoly]

Post $53 – “1 inch thick 4*8”

Ian,
You ask a very important question about magnet size. Recently we’ve been getting back to basics and investigating many rudimentary relationships, one of which is magnet to core ratio and how it plays out in these machines. depending on what you are doing, you can sometimes make up the difference of a small magnet by bringing it closer to the core and having the magnet's spaced closer together. I thought I remember reading that JB placed the core as close as is possible to the magnets? can't find the post....anyone?

It's my sense that if we are matching the coil/core size of JB’s big machine, we need to also match the magnets. Especially when he emphasizes interferometer (sp?) mode.

Magnet size:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post118066
I can't remember or find anywhere that he mentions the size of the barenium's.

Patrick

[minoly]

disclaimer

JB does not come right out and state that this is the size of the ceramics, one has to infer a bit, however, this sounds about right to me.
tried to edit the last message for this 5 times. oh well.

Patrick

[minoly]

Furthermore

Is this something like the drawing that JB is referring to in post #53 when he states “They only fire on north poles the south's are then attracted in when they flip the poles. The recovery is sent right back to the motor. The mass-less charge is sent right to both the batteries as per Tom Bearden's drawing of 1984.”?
New Page 1

So are there two different types of charges coming from the “magneto” portion of this machine?

I think someone mentioned in a previous post that we might need to add this on. I had hoped the lower coils and proper batteries would be all that is/was needed. I am starting to believe that perhaps the magneto might be necessary. I think that’s how Bit’s seems to be able to go OU using "pick-up/genny" coils - not to mention the pulsinator his own inverter, + the tesla switch, battery swapper - am I leaving something out! I also see Rick has placed a large magneto on the back of his 10 coiler…
ok, enough rambling

Patrick

[Turion]

I'm only posting this here because of the earlier discussion on Ed Leedskalnin. I'm sure Aaron will put it where he wants it if this is not appropriate.
YouTube - 11Turion's Channel

David Bowling

[Web000x]

I think someone mentioned in a previous post that we might need to add this on. I had hoped the lower coils and proper batteries would be all that is/was needed. I am starting to believe that perhaps the magneto might be necessary. I think that’s how Bit’s seems to be able to go OU using "pick-up/genny" coils - not to mention the pulsinator his own inverter, + the tesla switch, battery swapper - am I leaving something out! I also see Rick has placed a large magneto on the back of his 10 coiler…
ok, enough rambling

Patrick

I am still unclear as to if the large magamp and slave coils can produce enough usable excess energy, but Peter Lindemann posted this: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post117516


Dave

[minoly]

I am still unclear as to if the large magamp and slave coils can produce enough usable excess energy, but Peter Lindemann posted this: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post117516


Dave

Yea, those pick up coils on the 3PM kits do not come close to putting out enough energy to drive the main SSG circuit, however, that is the only way we are able to get the results we got on our slightly questionable OU build. The Bolt SSG-short get’s you even closer yet still falls short.

I think the point Peter is alluding to is that slowing down the rotor is part of the tuning. Which most of us who play around with these energizers found out as soon as we put our hands on the wheel and watch the charging and amp draw change.

This 3GT seems to have similar characteristics – so -
I’m pretty lame at these explanations, patience please:
1. after sweet spot is found
2. slowing down the rotor the right amount produces better charging less draw
3. adding little to –0- impedance to the charging side speeds up the rotor
4. = cap pulser/big batteries
5. so how do you slow it down
6. add some more magneto’s/pickup coils and take some more energy.
Whether or not that 10 coiler series magneto is dumping back to the primary or splitting it or whatever, it is definitely a constant drag on the wheel. And perhaps one of the two or both - timed with the correct dumps are all that is needed to push this thing over the edge.

Patrick

[txaggie00]

This 3GT seems to have similar characteristics – so -
I’m pretty lame at these explanations, patience please:
1. after sweet spot is found
2. slowing down the rotor the right amount produces better charging less draw
3. adding little to –0- impedance to the charging side speeds up the rotor
4. = cap pulser/big batteries
5. so how do you slow it down
6. add some more magneto’s/pickup coils and take some more energy.
Whether or not that 10 coiler series magneto is dumping back to the primary or splitting it or whatever, it is definitely a constant drag on the wheel. And perhaps one of the two or both - timed with the correct dumps are all that is needed to push this thing over the edge.

Patrick

Hey Patrick! Just wanted to share a couple things we noticed. Although we haven't found the sweet spot yet, one thing we noticed with our wheel was the faster it went the lower the amp draw (slow charging) and the slower it went the higher the amp draw(fast charging). I think it draws more going slow because the hall is over the magnet longer and the circuit is drawing more (longer) from the primaries. We have slowed our wheel down by playing with the coil offsets and adjusting the timing wheel and have been able to get our amp draw down to about what JB's was, so I think we are getting close. The fastest we had our wheel running was a little over 40 RPMs, but I know it can go MUCH faster. We never really experimented in that direction.

Also, JB had said that he was not using the requaging motor while his big wheel was running, but if he did, after it got past a certain RPM it acts like a generator. He was using both independent from the other. I think the biggest thing about the regauging motor was the fact that it used no current, just magnetic switching to turn something as massive as the BFW. He also had it hooked up to the capacitor from what I remember. I am looking forward to the conference, b/c Rick had said the circuit used for the BFW and regauging motor would be revealed (someone correct me if I misread that). Our goal is ultimately the regauging motor, but we really want to understand the 3GT and getting it running like JB's before we move on. I know we have a ton of questions about it. I think I had suggested it earlier, but it would have been nice to have had separate threads for both the 3GT and the regauging motor. It has been hard disseminating all the information and q&a in this thread as to which portion of JB's machine some of the posts pertained to. I am sure we will have to re-read this entire thread when we cross that bridge.

Thanks,
Scott

PS. Still trying to find some time in the office to get that scope shot

EDIT: I certainly don't want to mislead anyone, so if something I posted is incorrect, please correct me.

[minoly]

Hey Patrick! Just wanted to share a couple things we noticed. Although we haven't found the sweet spot yet, one thing we noticed with our wheel was the faster it went the lower the amp draw (slow charging) and the slower it went the higher the amp draw(fast charging). I think it draws more going slow because the hall is over the magnet longer and the circuit is drawing more (longer) from the primaries. We have slowed our wheel down by playing with the coil offsets and adjusting the timing wheel and have been able to get our amp draw down to about what JB's was, so I think we are getting close. The fastest we had our wheel running was a little over 40 RPMs, but I know it can go MUCH faster. We never really experimented in that direction.

Also, JB had said that he was not using the requaging motor while his big wheel was running, but if he did, after it got past a certain RPM it acts like a generator. He was using both independent from the other. I think the biggest thing about the regauging motor was the fact that it used no current, just magnetic switching to turn something as massive as the BFW. He also had it hooked up to the capacitor from what I remember. I am looking forward to the conference, b/c Rick had said the circuit used for the BFW and regauging motor would be revealed (someone correct me if I misread that). Our goal is ultimately the regauging motor, but we really want to understand the 3GT and getting it running like JB's before we move on. I know we have a ton of questions about it. I think I had suggested it earlier, but it would have been nice to have had separate threads for both the 3GT and the regauging motor. It has been hard disseminating all the information and q&a in this thread as to which portion of JB's machine some of the posts pertained to. I am sure we will have to re-read this entire thread when we cross that bridge.

Thanks,
Scott

PS. Still trying to find some time in the office to get that scope shot

Hi Scott,
I remember JB saying that - that he was not using the requaging motor while his big wheel was running - I guess I always assumed he meant it was not being used as a motor, however, from the quote #53 and from Tom B's drawing, it looks like it could still be being used to slow the rotor and send some energy. at the very least, it is slowing the wheel from the mere attraction of the magnets to the cores.
we moved from the small micro 3GT to a bike wheel 3GT - the slowing of the rotor/wheel has the same effect I describe with this size as well - lower draw, increased charging.
we are really trying to get a feel for the mag amp effect. we're kind of slow over here we're really enjoying this project along with all the others we try to keep our hands in...

Patrick

[Web000x]

Although we haven't found the sweet spot yet, one thing we noticed with our wheel was the faster it went the lower the amp draw (slow charging) and the slower it went the higher the amp draw(fast charging). I think it draws more going slow because the hall is over the magnet longer and the circuit is drawing more (longer) from the primaries. We have slowed our wheel down by playing with the coil offsets and adjusting the timing wheel and have been able to get our amp draw down to about what JB's was, so I think we are getting close. The fastest we had our wheel running was a little over 40 RPMs, but I know it can go MUCH faster. We never really experimented in that direction.

Scott,

That is one HUGE inductor you have. Inductors resist a change in current upon applying power. When you close the switch to charge an inductor, it starts charging according to the INDUCTANCE/RESISTANCE time constant. It takes 5 times the value of L/R to fully charge an inductor.

For example, if John Bedini's Circuit impedance is about 2 ohms for his coils and about 3 ohms for the transistor impedance, we have 5 ohms of resistance total. He said that his coil is 1.126H (assuming this is the paralleled inductance of the coils).

1.126H/4Ohms = 282 milliSeconds = CIRCUIT CHARGING CONSTANT

.282 Sec * 5 = 1.41 Seconds

This is the total time with that speculated resistance (close to my own 4-PNP x 4-NPN setup which is 3 ohms) that the coil needs to be energized to deliver the full spike.

That is why you are getting less charging for higher speeds and more charging at lower speeds. Inductors charge up at a logarithmic rate. This site has a good animation on what I have said: Inductor time constant

I am not saying that you should deliver the full spike on each discharge to get to the sweet spot. I'm just saying that it varies according to the time the inductor is charged. If you could see your spike on the scope, this would be a self-revelation.

I'm not sure how to direct you on setting your timing, but I thought you should know this.



Dave

[Rl2003]

Amp Draw

All,
I have observed the same results when adding some load to the wheel. Amp draw
goes up as RPM comes down. This is one reason I tried the Opti switch instead of
the hall. I was able to get a faster on/off time with a small slot. I am looking for a
way to go even smaller, but have not had time to work on it latley.
Mark

Hey Patrick! Just wanted to share a couple things we noticed. Although we haven't found the sweet spot yet, one thing we noticed with our wheel was the faster it went the lower the amp draw (slow charging) and the slower it went the higher the amp draw(fast charging). I think it draws more going slow because the hall is over the magnet longer and the circuit is drawing more (longer) from the primaries. We have slowed our wheel down by playing with the coil offsets and adjusting the timing wheel and have been able to get our amp draw down to about what JB's was, so I think we are getting close. The fastest we had our wheel running was a little over 40 RPMs, but I know it can go MUCH faster. We never really experimented in that direction.

Thanks,
Scott

PS. Still trying to find some time in the office to get that scope shot

EDIT: I certainly don't want to mislead anyone, so if something I posted is incorrect, please correct me.