Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[Les_K]

oops! 24.

Did you make a spool like John said? I was assuming that your resistance 4.6 and 6.5 in parrellel would be 11.1 ohms so did you get to the 14 ohms?
Also I just realized there is a latency created in using two gauges of wire like that, and I wonder if this is one of the differentials John is talking about....
Learn while we build righto'

Les

[John_K]

oops! 24.

Did you make a spool like John said? I was assuming that your resistance 4.6 and 6.5 in parrellel would be 11.1 ohms so did you get to the 14 ohms?
Also I just realized there is a latency created in using two gauges of wire like that, and I wonder if this is one of the differentials John is talking about....
Learn while we build righto'

Les

Hi Les,

I should point out an earlier post....

"@John B, I measured the resistance of the coils - the 2 thicker wires are 9.4 ohms each and the 2 thinner wires are 16.1 ohms each."

I will measure the total parallel resitance of all four strands tonight and post it to the group. JB suggested 14 ohms total. According to my parallel resistance calulator I should be at 2.9675 ohms, but will confirm when I get home. (No where near 14 ohms!)

BTW, if I "lock" the rotor over the hall so the coil is energized it pulls 2A from the primary.


John K.

[Les_K]

Hi Les,

I should point out an earlier post....

"@John B, I measured the resistance of the coils - the 2 thicker wires are 9.4 ohms each and the 2 thinner wires are 16.1 ohms each."

I will measure the total parallel resitance of all four strands tonight and post it to the group. JB suggested 14 ohms total. According to my parallel resistance calulator I should be at 2.9675 ohms, but will confirm when I get home. (No where near 14 ohms!)

BTW, if I "lock" the rotor over the hall so the coil is energized it pulls 2A from the primary.


John K.

Thanks, I thought I was bonkers. When I ran the numbers it was looking like I need 4140 feet of each strand? Two #20 and two #23.... I know that I have to be misunderstaing what he was saying. After all, I thought I read all the posts and yet missed this one...mmmmm Maybe been at it to long!

Les

[Matthew Jones]

@Vissie
Read this post again. John tells Jerdee his setup is for the most part correct. READ JERDEE'S DESCRIPTION after the picture.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post117869
Matt

[iankoglin]

John K,
How big is your coil ? what is the Z in DC Ohms?
John B

Mr. John Bedini
My name is Ian Koglin I live in Portland Australia and because of the distance and cost I was not able to get to the last Conference nor will I be able to attend the next one.
I really want to thank you Tom Beardon and Rick and all others involved for making available not only to myself but to all and sundry that want to learn this technology.
I have been attempting to replicate your monopole machines for about 3 years now.
I began firstly trying to replicate your 6 coiler but it was not until I joined the BM3 group that I learned what I know now. I have built the vanilla SSG then improved by making it a 10 filer coil which does very nicely I even put 6 FWBR across 6 windings as you indicated in the Tesla technology DVD it charges 6 extra batteries. I did buy ricks 10 coiler but as yet I have not been able to tune it properly I really think it was hard to tune because I purchased 12 Trojan T105’s and the instructions for these batteries states that it will take about 100 C/Discharge cycles to get the most out of these batteries. I then re built a 12 coiler I attempted making it a 6 coiler and have with 1 coil/circuit tuned it well and now I am continuing to include all the coils/circuits. I feel that I am succeeding and will apply the tuning experience to Rick’s 10 coiler. I am sure I am getting there.
I am now in the process of reading all the posts on your 3GT Ferris wheel and would like to build one I am a Joiner(woodworker) by trade and it would be very easy to make a 1.2m wheel out of Medium density Fiberboard as the sheet size is 1.2m wide. I think you said that the bigger the better and because of limited space particularly the height I am limited to door height which will limit my building to 2.04meters I could make one that size. You stated that the The center coil 200 lbs 4000 turns of wire 4 wires Perhaps I could scale it to match but then It probably would not be correct.
You do not mention the other coils size nor are what size are the magnets.
I live approximately 5 hours away from John Koorn we communicate quite often. I would really like to make one gradually in steps like he is doing. He said that he is just guessing as to the sizes of the coils and magnets and perhaps the magnets he is using is rather on the small size.
I thought that these might be about the size but as he said he would only be guessing

# 3458
25 x 6 x 3.5mm Block (Rare Earth)

# 2545
75 x 50 x 20mm Block (Ferrite)

I would be very pleased if you might please indicate to me if these magnets would be suitable for a 2.04 meter wheel. And please what would be the size and other Specs of the 3 coils?
I believe this project will take a lot of patience and effort to make it just right I want it to succeed
John K is already thinking of building one 12 foot diam and I said I could help him with building the wheel prefabricated one that would be running true and stable unlike the timber table he is utilizing now.
I truly appreciate the opportunity to be involved in this project.

Kindest regards Ian Koglin
P.S. I am known by and sign my posts by the nickname all my friends call me by “Kogs”

[Mark]

Could be that they are wired backward. Wound the same direction just wired backwards so they are pulling. After all look at the offset.
It would also produce an "interferometry" situation as the spikes coming out of the slaves would be reversed from the primary.

Big potential as well.

Just me thinking out loud though....

Matt

Matt I think your right! This would also explain why the rotor would kick backwards at start up and why the rotor speed is not very fast.

The other thing I still dont understand is why JB wants to pulse the output with an SCR. I have done quite a bit of testing and found that using an SCR is not as efficient as letting the spike go directly into the battery after the bridge.

This question is a little off topic but after watching Peter's Lockridge video I was wondering if anyone has tried to partially incase the outer portion of their coil in iron to concentrate the colapsing field.

Mark

[nvisser]

@Vissie
Read this post again. John tells Jerdee his setup is for the most part correct. READ JERDEE'S DESCRIPTION after the picture.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post117869
Matt

Hi matt
Then I think we must assume it is correct.
It won't be to difficult to just swop the wires of the slave coils to test the results once we are there.
Vissie

Jeremy's quote:
The side coils are opposed pulsing a weaker south pole to create attraction, while the Main center coil is creating a huge repulsed north field when switch goes on.

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

To All,
I have been detained helping out with a friend that has died, so I have been busy.

I also will not be here for one week but do not think I have left the group.

I will state this again I never use Neo magnets with these motors because they do saturate the cores I do not want that at all. If you saturate the core then you must use a lot of current in the system I do not want that either.
The only way to use that magnet is like I did by placing the magnet behind the ferrite magnet to shape fields. When you shape fields you can cause them to switch magnetically. If you build a Mag Amp out of the monopole coil you will see why, and do not think that you can not do that I do it all the time. Also the welding rods have changed from the time I first started using them, the iron retains a magnetic bias in the new material, not good.

I have always said do not use Neo magnets in my monopole motors, the only place you should be using them is in Iron-less coils then they work fine. If you use this Neo magnet you will fail at what your doing and I'm not going to be able to help you get yourself out of trouble with this machine.
John B

[Les_K]

To All,

I will state this again I never use Neo magnets with these motors because they do saturate the cores I do not want that at all. If you saturate the core then you must use a lot of current in the system I do not want that either.
The only way to use that magnet is like I did by placing the magnet behind the ferrite magnet to shape fields. When you shape fields you can cause them to switch magnetically. If you build a Mag Amp out of the monopole coil you will see why, and do not think that you can not do that I do it all the time. Also the welding rods have changed from the time I first started using them, the iron retains a magnetic bias in the new material, not good.

I have always said do not use Neo magnets in my monopole motors, the only place you should be using them is in Iron-less coils then they work fine. If you use this Neo magnet you will fail at what your doing and I'm not going to be able to help you get yourself out of trouble with this machine.
John B

John,
Thanks for the info on the Welding rods. Do you, or anyone, have suggestions on where to get the right kind?

Also Please accept my apologies, I looked at my post and can see how this could have been misunderstood about Neo's. I only tested one piece of welding rod. I did not mean to imply running a machine using Neo's.

your corrections are a great blessing to us in our growth here. Thanks again John.

Les

[genessc]

Hi John B,

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. Thank you for the additional detail on core saturation as well.

Thank you also for the idea of building the mag-amp from a monopole coil. I had come recently to realize the mechanical SG is a rotary magnetic amplifier. This makes some sense to me then that you would suggest this as a venue of study. I just finished making myself a 1000watt mag-amp (which so far can only actually thru put about 400watts with a 40 watt DC bias). Given that its comprised of three separate but same model 1000va trafos, its not designed to be used this way which is probably why the skew in large DC bias being applied.

The way I would expect one could make the Monopole coil into a mag amp would be to setup a 3 wire stator, 2 wires in normal SG layout... 3rd wire connected directly or via caps to the sine source. Then the SG should switch based on the frequency of the AC applied to the source isolated winding eh? Then when only one half of the sine flows the stator it should trigger the DC oscillator to pulse... I'll give this some more thought.

Thanks again, Merry Christmas!
Gene

To All,
I have been detained helping out with a friend that has died, so I have been busy.

I also will not be here for one week but do not think I have left the group.

I will state this again I never use Neo magnets with these motors because they do saturate the cores I do not want that at all. If you saturate the core then you must use a lot of current in the system I do not want that either.
The only way to use that magnet is like I did by placing the magnet behind the ferrite magnet to shape fields. When you shape fields you can cause them to switch magnetically. If you build a Mag Amp out of the monopole coil you will see why, and do not think that you can not do that I do it all the time. Also the welding rods have changed from the time I first started using them, the iron retains a magnetic bias in the new material, not good.

I have always said do not use Neo magnets in my monopole motors, the only place you should be using them is in Iron-less coils then they work fine. If you use this Neo magnet you will fail at what your doing and I'm not going to be able to help you get yourself out of trouble with this machine.
John B

[Turion]

John,
Those of us who have ever lost someone in our lives know what you are going through, and you have our deepest sympathy. It is amazing that you even took the time to come and post what you did to let us know. We appreciate your time and efforts on our behalf. You and those close to you, will be in our thoughts.

To our group.
As a member of the Monopole3 group I am continually amazed by the people who log onto that site having made some change in John's design and then wanting help with figuring out why it won't work. And they have an EXACT schematic to follow with specs on every part! This INCLUDES things like using neos, different sized wires, the wrong transistors, etc. If I was the moderator of that site my response to EVERY one of their questions would be, "Build it exactly like John said. When you have done that, then we will answer your questions. Until then, do not bother us."

Here, it's a little different. We are all searching for answers and feeling our way. We have a lot of information, but not specific schematics and specs on every part. There are some brilliant folks in this group, and I value ALL your opinions, even when some of the answers turn out to be the wrong ones, because it provokes thought and opens our minds to new possibilities! I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank ALL of you for your hard work and invaluable contributions to this and other threads, and for the friendships we are building here. Those friendships, this collaboration, and this work will stand long after some of us have moved on. I wish all of you a happy holiday season.


"Try Not! Do! Or Do Not. There is no 'Try'!"
Yoda
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them." Galileo Galilei

YouTube - 11Turion's Channel

[John_K]

Well put

Hi Turion,

Well put. I am particularly enjoying the fact that John B is really making us think, kind of like have all the pieces to a jigsaw puzzle but no picture on the box

I'm one of the moderators of the BM3 group and yes, you would be surprised how many times we moderators have to tell people to build to spec. I was the same when I first joined that group and was probably one of Rick's worst nightmares at the start. The question about neos usually comes up a couple of times per month.

Anyway, I made some progress on my build. I think I figured out why John B has the timing wheel magnets so close together and why he says the fields overlap. It's all got to do with the dwell time. Think about what the coil/s are doing when the hall switches on and off and how to take advantage of this. It might be hard to work it out if you don't have a machine running in front of you.


John K.

John,
Those of us who have ever lost someone in our lives know what you are going through, and you have our deepest sympathy. It is amazing that you even took the time to come and post what you did to let us know. We appreciate your time and efforts on our behalf. You and those close to you, will be in our thoughts.

To our group.
As a member of the Monopole3 group I am continually amazed by the people who log onto that site having made some change in John's design and then wanting help with figuring out why it won't work. And they have an EXACT schematic to follow with specs on every part! This INCLUDES things like using neos, different sized wires, the wrong transistors, etc. If I was the moderator of that site my response to EVERY one of their questions would be, "Build it exactly like John said. When you have done that, then we will answer your questions. Until then, do not bother us."

Here, it's a little different. We are all searching for answers and feeling our way. We have a lot of information, but not specific schematics and specs on every part. There are some brilliant folks in this group, and I value ALL your opinions, even when some of the answers turn out to be the wrong ones, because it provokes thought and opens our minds to new possibilities! I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank ALL of you for your hard work and invaluable contributions to this and other threads, and for the friendships we are building here. Those friendships, this collaboration, and this work will stand long after some of us have moved on. I wish all of you a happy holiday season.


"Try Not! Do! Or Do Not. There is no 'Try'!"
Yoda
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them." Galileo Galilei

YouTube - 11Turion's Channel

[nvisser]

Looking at the pictures of the timing wheel I can see that the magnets are spaced about one magnet width apart.
My wheel is only 30 cm and when I place a little round neo near the axle to build the timing part the magnet lifts up on its side and start to roll around till it get stuck to one of the outside magnets.
Maybe my outer magnets are too big for this small wheel. I will first try to trigger the hall from the outside magnets although I would not be able to adjust the dwell by using rectangular magnets.
I was successful with the etching of my bipolar switch PCB and will built and test it today. The wheel still needs to be mounted and it looks like I will only get some of the stuff I need for that after Christmas.

[rave154]

hi all,

ive been following this thread on & off since it started, and also watched the few youtube videos showing the BFW working etc...

but im still puzzled as to.....what does it actually "do"?...... ie....what is its specific claim? (im assuming theres some claim of OU in it somewhere )

so, my honest question.......what exactly does this machine "do"?

thanks,

David. D

[John_K]

Looking at the pictures of the timing wheel I can see that the magnets are spaced about one magnet width apart.
My wheel is only 30 cm and when I place a little round neo near the axle to build the timing part the magnet lifts up on its side and start to roll around till it get stuck to one of the outside magnets.
Maybe my outer magnets are too big for this small wheel. I will first try to trigger the hall from the outside magnets although I would not be able to adjust the dwell by using rectangular magnets.
I was successful with the etching of my bipolar switch PCB and will built and test it today. The wheel still needs to be mounted and it looks like I will only get some of the stuff I need for that after Christmas.

Hi Vissie,

I think that the timing wheel magnets are closer than 1 width apart. It's important that the fields can overlap. That way you can get a >50% duty cycle on the hall if you need it. Have a close look at the pic John B posted of the timing wheel with the red lines drawn on it.
I don't think it will work with using the outer magnets to trigger the hall. The timing wheel magnets should be ceramic discs, not neos. I've found that the fields of the ceramic discs spread out from the disc a little bit, so the hall can trigger before it is physically over the magnet.

Good work with the PCB!


John K.