Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[Sawt2]

Hi Red.

You can get this circuit running on a trigger coil to start with if you like.

Halls will give you a much better result and allow for adjusting of timing and pulse width on the fly, a very useful tool. The trigger coil works great with the SG but the bipolar circuit works better with a hall imo.

Ive used (and gave John K) the SS43a hall (Allegro) and it works good. Its rated for up to 24v input, though I usually regulate this anyway.

Make sure you read up on halls, especially LATCHING AND NON-LATCHING. You need to figure out which side of the magnet triggers the hall. You can make a simple circuit up with a PNP and a led then run your hall over a magnet to check.

regards

(still no net at home thanks to lightning strike... )

Ren
Would you mind posting a quick drawing of the simple circuit to test a hall sensor
Thank you
Brian

[ren]

I have no net at the moment Brian, so I cant upload it. Im on my phone at the moment. But its very simple.

Led in the collector leg of the PNP, going to negative. Emitter to positive, hall triggers base. Think of the LED as a coil and wire it up. Its basically the circuit we are using here but with not complimentary pair. Just the hall, and the signal PNP transistor. When your hall triggers the PNP to fire it will light the LED. You will have to check the voltages on your hall, I have a 24v one so its fine to test with a 12v battery. Since the LED (12v in my case) only passes milliamps its pretty safe, you can use a small PNP transistor.

This is a very basic testing circuit, there would be better ones on the data sheet of the hall you choose. Im sure someone else could put a much better one on.

[Turion]

Ferris Wheel Replication

Here is my replication. This is only a 4' wheel, but uses a bicycle wheel as its main component. Could make it 6', 8' or 10' easily enough simply by increasing the length of the boards. No board would be over 5', which makes it easy to work with. Short video of it just turning on my YouTube channel
YouTube - 11Turion's Channel


"Try Not! Do! Or Do Not. There is no 'Try'!"
Yoda
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them." Galileo Galilei

[John_K]

Hi Vissie,

I don't know if I'm right or not, I'm still messing around with the timing. The switch not always be on. As long as there is a gap in between the magnets is cannot be. At best you can probably get a 80% duty cycle.

But WHAT IF, we switch the coil on just past TDC. (23 degrees past the previous magnets) This will push the rotor magnet away. Then we switch the coil off just before TDC on the next magnet. When the poles flip on the coil, wouldn't it suck the next magnet in? So the rotor works in repulsion AND attraction mode...

But hen again, WHAT IF we flip the polarity of the rotor magnets (with the neo on the back of it). What would this do and how can we use this to our advantage?

Just throwing a line in the pond...


John K,

Hi John
You said:
"I think that the timing wheel magnets are closer than 1 width apart. It's important that the fields can overlap. That way you can get a >50% duty cycle on the hall if you need it"
I really don’t get this. If the fields overlap the switch will always be on as the hall will always be switched.
Can you try and explain this to me.
I really don’t know why I assumed the trigger magnets were neos. I can see now it’s black. I do have some of them.
I tested my bipolar switch on a small hardrive SSG with 4 magnets only. I used a neo with a bigger round ceramic of 28mm diameter on top of it and a 4 strand untwisted parallel coil of 1.5 Ohms with the core out in the top and the steel plate in the bottom. I trigger the hall with on the round ceramics and can adjust the pulse width from 80mA to 300mA current draw on 12V.
By adjusting the timing I could get it to run CW when it’s near TDC and when I move it a bit ATDC it will stop when moving slowly and start to spin CCW.
It charges a 14 500 uF cap up to 25V in 5 sec while drawing 200mA from 13v battery which is not bad compared to the same machine with normal coil, magnets and ssg circuit.
This was just to test my circuit. I will mount it on the bigger 16 magnet wheel soon.

[John_K]

In post #57 JB shows 3 halls and dwell timing. 3 pulses, small, medium and a large one. This is just an illustration of the 3 coils on the bottom, correct, we are not working with 3 halls.

I'm sorry if these question are stupid but I'm really trying to wrap my head around this and am going back thru the whole thread to try and comprehend the function of everything. Please help me out.

Thanks, Mark

Mark,

No, this is an illustration of the hall timing on the timing wheel. Nothing to do with the 3 coils on the bottom. 1 hall, 3 different dwells depending on how much of the timing magnets passes the hall.


John K.

[nvisser]

Hall timing and dwell

Matt brought this to my attention.
It looks like the round magnets for the hall sensor are in between the the connecting bars that run to the outer magnets .
http://fan1701.com/stuff/Bedini/Swit...wheel_FULL.jpg.
Has anybody got a better photo so that we can confirm this?
If it is like that and the hall is mounted in between two timing magnets while the wheel is stationary, does it mean that the 3 coils will fire in the axact position as Jeremy illustrated?
Also in this drawing the slave coils could be wired to atract. Not sure yet.

[nvisser]

Happy Christmas

It's Christmas eve by us now.
To everybody that do Christmas, I wish you a happy Christmas.
Happy holidays to all.

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

It's Christmas eve by us now.
To everybody that do Christmas, I wish you a happy Christmas.
Happy holidays to all.

Thank you Vissie. Merry Christmas to you, your family, and all of the fine folks in this forum. May the year 2011 be as exciting as 2010 in our research efforts.

Merry Christmas and a happy new year.

Jeff

[Michael Kishline]

Dwell Magnet Positioning

Matt brought this to my attention.
It looks like the round magnets for the hall sensor are in between the the connecting bars that run to the outer magnets .
http://fan1701.com/stuff/Bedini/Swit...wheel_FULL.jpg.
Has anybody got a better photo so that we can confirm this?
If it is like that and the hall is mounted in between two timing magnets while the wheel is stationary, does it mean that the 3 coils will fire in the axact position as Jeremy illustrated?
Also in this drawing the slave coils could be wired to atract. Not sure yet.

Hi Vissie,
I did here John B. say the dwell timing magnets were positioned between the wheel spokes.
But it looks like the magnets are not exactly between the spokes, just a bit offset.

Photos to confirm

Also, I remember the Hall positioned up to the inside ring of magnets as indicated in the photo, you can see it blurred through the acrylic directly above the black timing mark.

p.s. I believe the Dwell Magnets are for the re-gauging coils and magnets located on the hub not the large coils.

Merry Christmas, Mike
Dwell Magnets Relative to Wheel Spokes End View.jpgDwell Magnets Relative to Wheel Spokes End View 2.jpgDwell Magnets Relative to Wheel Spokes Side View.jpgHall Sensor Location.jpg

[nvisser]

Thank you Mike. I think that confirms it.
This magnets you posted photos of are for the main energizer.
Standing in front of the wheel it turns CCW, so standing behind it the timing magnets will turn CW. When looking at the hall position in rest on the photo , it is just before a round magnet and should trigger the coils in the vicinity of the position as Jerdee draw them..

The re-gauging Motor must get its trigger by some other means.
As John said:
“At every dot located on the motor/generator it was switched on (in the pictures).
They only fire on north poles the south's are then attracted in when they flip the poles
Yes, the source is the trigger for the signal, two short pulses and a long recovery indicated by blue led and no current movement on the amp meter”

What is the source he is talking about?
I looked back again and John's post 53 explains lots of the regauging motors triggering. Not that I understand it. LOL

[Rl2003]

Visse,
The trigger magnets for the re-gauging motor are behind the round plate holding
the coils. It was a smaller dia. plexi disk with five smaller ceramic magnets about 12 mm. and a seperate hall sensor.
Fires every other coil, of the ten coils.

As far as the on/off time for the big wheel, one would think that the time would be very short.
Maybe the difference between the 22.5 and 23 deg. So .5 deg off time??
Would'nt this create an affect like Tesla was working with..??
Just a thought.
The reason I bring this up.. When playing with a double PMH I put together I noticed that if
you reverse the polarity of the coil it releases the iron bar. (Nothing new)
But if you don't let it go to far. Like 1mm it will re-attach itself with out re- applying another tap of the battery.
It's very suttle but it's something to look at.

I have had to completely re-do my MBFW replication because the little neo's on the back would not
spin freely. I had to make little custom holders that attach to the rim. It also adds so weight to really make it
spin a long time. I will post pictures when I get it done.

Mark P.



The re-gauging Motor must get its trigger by some other means.
As John said:
“At every dot located on the motor/generator it was switched on (in the pictures).
They only fire on north poles the south's are then attracted in when they flip the poles
Yes, the source is the trigger for the signal, two short pulses and a long recovery indicated by blue led and no current movement on the amp meter”

What is the source he is talking about?
I looked back again and John's post 53 explains lots of the regauging motors triggering. Not that I understand it. LOL[/QUOTE]

[Michael Kishline]

Trigger Magnets on 10 Coil Side

Visse,
The trigger magnets for the re-gauging motor are behind the round plate holding
the coils. It was a smaller dia. plexi disk with five smaller ceramic magnets about 12 mm. and a seperate hall sensor.
Fires every other coil, of the ten coils.

As far as the on/off time for the big wheel, one would think that the time would be very short.
Maybe the difference between the 22.5 and 23 deg. So .5 deg off time??
Would'nt this create an affect like Tesla was working with..??
Just a thought.
The reason I bring this up.. When playing with a double PMH I put together I noticed that if
you reverse the polarity of the coil it releases the iron bar. (Nothing new)
But if you don't let it go to far. Like 1mm it will re-attach itself with out re- applying another tap of the battery.
It's very suttle but it's something to look at.

I have had to completely re-do my MBFW replication because the little neo's on the back would not
spin freely. I had to make little custom holders that attach to the rim. It also adds so weight to really make it
spin a long time. I will post pictures when I get it done.

Mark P.



The re-gauging Motor must get its trigger by some other means.
As John said:
“At every dot located on the motor/generator it was switched on (in the pictures).
They only fire on north poles the south's are then attracted in when they flip the poles
Yes, the source is the trigger for the signal, two short pulses and a long recovery indicated by blue led and no current movement on the amp meter”

What is the source he is talking about?
I looked back again and John's post 53 explains lots of the regauging motors triggering. Not that I understand it. LOL

[/QUOTE]

Greetings Rl2003,

For clarification sake, I believe your talking about the acrylic disc I have labeled in the photos?

Please correct me if I have this wrong, nothing worse than thinking I have started to get a handle on this and than start giving bad advise. (the blind leading the blind)

Thanks Mike
10 Coil re-gauging Hall magnets 2.jpg 10 Coil re-gauging Hall magnets.jpg

[Rl2003]

Greetings Rl2003,

For clarification sake, I believe your talking about the acrylic disc I have labeled in the photos?

Please correct me if I have this wrong, nothing worse than thinking I have started to get a handle on this and than start giving bad advise. (the blind leading the blind)

Thanks Mike
10 Coil re-gauging Hall magnets 2.jpg 10 Coil re-gauging Hall magnets.jpg[/QUOTE]

Yes, Thats it. Your right its back in there. It was very hard to see even when
looking for it. I havent got that far on my replication yet.
Mark P.

[ren]

Thank you Mike. I think that confirms it.
This magnets you posted photos of are for the main energizer.
Standing in front of the wheel it turns CCW, so standing behind it the timing magnets will turn CW. When looking at the hall position in rest on the photo , it is just before a round magnet and should trigger the coils in the vicinity of the position as Jerdee draw them..

The re-gauging Motor must get its trigger by some other means.
As John said:
“At every dot located on the motor/generator it was switched on (in the pictures).
They only fire on north poles the south's are then attracted in when they flip the poles
Yes, the source is the trigger for the signal, two short pulses and a long recovery indicated by blue led and no current movement on the amp meter”

What is the source he is talking about?
I looked back again and John's post 53 explains lots of the regauging motors triggering. Not that I understand it. LOL

Hey Vissie,

I think those answers were in reply to some questions I asked about the axial portion. I asked where the axial electromagnets got their trigger from. The way I read his reply was that the source (battery) provides the means or power for the triggering of these axial coils. As he indicated a pulse every dot and not every magnet has a dot I guess there is another means to trigger this event, perhaps another hall sensor. The hall sensor would need power from the source (battery) to switch these axial coils so it fits in with the above. Maybe its this or something else, but I think we need to focus on the basic radial arrangement first. I got hung up on the axial arrangement trying to figure it out only to find out its something different again....

Ive nearly got a basic 1/2 circuit and rotor ready. Just working on the timing wheel.

Regards

[chasson321]

Apples and Oranges

Well spotted Mike......you are indeed correct ( i had multiplied by the 24 when there is no need )..and the new numbers compute to.....

1,300,000 (FWB ) / 51,840,000 (house) = 1 / 40 (a smidge under 40)

so you would need just under 40 FWB's to power a house for a day

Are we comparing apples to oranges here? The FWB is sending power to the Capacitor. However, the capacitor is pulsing the battery bank. Question is: Is this all that we will get in return? John talks about an Enviromental amp effect. With conditioned batteries will not the net available power be more than the 1.5 million joules coming straight from the capacitor?

Tim