Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[Web000x]

Slave Coil Windings

I am about to wind my slave coils and can't seem to find a clear post on this thread that tells if they are wound unifilar, bifilar or even possibly quadrifilar.

I found this quote by John Bedini:

I have moved the pole piece out of the core so that the right angles meet at the shield, so what I'm doing is causing a delay in the magnetic field by closing it in. I said that four coils are wound on one coil form two #15 wires and two #18 wires. The # 18 wires are control wires the two 15 wires are power wires, look up the definition for Mag Amp. understand what a Mag Amp is and how it control's energy, self biased inside the coil.

It seems to me that it would be most likely that he used only 18 AWG on the slaves since John states that the 18 AWG wire is being used as the control on the mag amp setup of the main coil.

I would really like to get this right the first time as money is an issue.

1. Are the slaves unifilar or bifilar wound?

2. Does anybody know if each individual coil strand has its own Bedini/Cole half bipolar switch?

This would not make sense to me since the coils would need to be paralleled with the least amount of resistance to act as a mag amp. But it was still a question worth asking for clarification purposes.


Dave

[jerdee]

Here are some scope shots of my small setup.
Once the rotor is up to speed and I switch it off, you see the generated sine wave.
On the 2nd photo you will see the on trigger pulse to the bottom, the reactive pulse that goes up to 26V before the cap gets dump and then during off time half the generated sine wave. This was timing on TDC of the main coil.
Now as I advance the timing till the trigger happens when a magnet reach the middle of the right slave coil , I only get half the positive going sine wave during off time before the next trigger pulse. Like Jeremy explained. Only voltage. The current is lagging by 90 deg and the next trigger pulse occurs before any current flows.
This gives me much better output and the rotor also slows down a lot.
Towards the end of the video you can see clearly how the sine wave change as I adjust the timing.
YouTube - scope shots ferrie setup 005

Woohoo!! Awesome!

I knew you would be the one to do this!

Jeremy

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

Lidmotor,
we need to talk about some advancements with LaserSlayer and about some of the experiments you have done. Some very important things here.
John Bedini

[FRC]

John

Lidmotor,
we need to talk about some advancements with LaserSlayer and about some of the experiments you have done. Some very important things here.
John Bedini

I think you might have meant LaserSaber. They last posted on the Joule Ringer tread.


FRC

[Lidmotor]

My experiments

Lidmotor,
we need to talk about some advancements with LaserSlayer and about some of the experiments you have done. Some very important things here.
John Bedini

Hi John,
I sent you a PM. Let me know if I can help out in any way.

Lidmotor

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

Lidmotor.
I did not receive the PM try it again sorry for the inconvenience. Hope progress is progressing.
I'm spending most of my time building a magnetic solid state relay as that is what is needed.

But I do want to talk to you, about taking this big ferries wheel machine and planting it into the ground. I will build another one if I must with earth coils. but I just have a few questions about this as I did use the Stubblefield coil for transmission. I think it can be done right now if the switching works right.
John B

[minoly]

SSrelay

We built a solid state relay using a hall and coil way back. we took an 8 ohm coil w/ welding rods - the usual SG type, placed the hall on one end. got that thing to self oscillate but could not slow it down, we started messing w/ chokes and fried a few things before we decided it was I little to advanced for us at the time.
will have to give it a spin here, now...
wow! Stubblefield in the ground for transmission! remote Ferris Wheel?

P'n'S

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

Minoly,
The switch I'm building is not the same thing I'm just waiting for the germanium blanks to come. I already have the silicon Fet chips I need very lower power device .5 volts to .75.
John B

We built a solid state relay using a hall and coil way back. we took an 8 ohm coil w/ welding rods - the usual SG type, placed the hall on one end. got that thing to self oscillate but could not slow it down, we started messing w/ chokes and fried a few things before we decided it was I little to advanced for us at the time.
will have to give it a spin here, now...
wow! Stubblefield in the ground for transmission! remote Ferris Wheel?

P'n'S

[John_K]

Mag Amps

Hi John B,

I have been researching mag amps and I think I know how you have the main coil hooked up as one.

Can you confirm that one of the #18 thinner windings is used for DC bias, the other #18 thinner winding is used for the control wire, and the two #15 thicker windings are wired together in series and in phase?


John K.

[genessc]

Just a bit of info... not sure if its helpful.

If I take a coil and my LCR meter and put the LCR meter on the winding and then take a magnet and swipe it over the coils end, I see an increase in the measured inductance of the coil, regardless of which side of the magnet is used to swipe the coil.

Thus the movement of the magnet, based on that observation, works to increase the inductance of the coil.

An applied power pulse on that strand or a cowound strand reduces the inductance somewhat, while shorting the same cowound strand brings the inductance down to near nothing.

Just some comments on observed indutance changes based on the noted changes above.

Regards,
Gene

If I am following this correctly, I believe that the coils are offset in spacing from each other a bit. In other words, when a magnet is at TDC of the master coil, the magnets above the slave coils have already reached TDC of the slave coil cores are on their way out.

John Bedini states that all of the coils are in parallel. Since the magnets would be saturating the iron cores of the slave coils first, they would be creating a pulse of electricity through the master coil. To my understanding, this pulse would cause the core of the master coil to become somewhat saturated and the inductance(L) would drop. This might be what John Bedini was talking about when he referred to the use of a mag amp.

Once the mag amp effect is at its peak (inductance becomes lowest), the coils would fire from the half bipolar switch. The mag amp effect would cause the coil to charge in a low inductance state (Charging would happen quickly) and discharge in a high inductance state (High voltage spikes should occur) after the mag amp effect has diminished.

Eric Dollard has always spoke of the importance of changing inductance or capacitance with respect to time to cause the "synthesis of energy".

However, I am a bit unclear on the directions that the coils are to face. Since there has been so much speculation as to what is really going on, I've gotten lost in all of the non-Bedini produced diagrams.

Since all of the magnets on the rotor are north facing out, the only way that the two slave coils could create this "pre-pulse" of energy is if they were being repelled from coil being energized since they would have to have already passed TDC of the core. This means that the slave coils would have to be pulsing a north pole towards the magnets, and the master coil would have to be attracting the magnets with a south pole.

If somebody that was at the conference or that has a better understanding of what is being said here on the forum, please fill me in as I am just trying to understand what is actually being said.


Dave

[genessc]

Some scope shots of the ferris wheel free-wheeling would be interesting. It looks like the sine you show is slightly shifted to look a little more like a sawtooth wave. Is that perhaps why bedini is using neos to bias the flux of the larger ceramic? to help shape the wave being shared by the rotor? It would fit with some of the waveforms hes put in the FEG book.

Thanks for sharing the scope shots.
Gene

Here are some scope shots of my small setup.
Once the rotor is up to speed and I switch it off, you see the generated sine wave.
On the 2nd photo you will see the on trigger pulse to the bottom, the reactive pulse that goes up to 26V before the cap gets dump and then during off time half the generated sine wave. This was timing on TDC of the main coil.
Now as I advance the timing till the trigger happens when a magnet reach the middle of the right slave coil , I only get half the positive going sine wave during off time before the next trigger pulse. Like Jeremy explained. Only voltage. The current is lagging by 90 deg and the next trigger pulse occurs before any current flows.
This gives me much better output and the rotor also slows down a lot.
Towards the end of the video you can see clearly how the sine wave change as I adjust the timing.
YouTube - scope shots ferrie setup 005

[genessc]

The video you shared is very nice... it shows that by playing with the hall position you shift where in the sawtooth the switch is turning on.

Now if you just knew at which point in the cycle per pulse you are supposed to switch at..

Is there any better performance in any particular area of the sines switching where you note the switching is more powerful or useful? Does it run better or worse in any particular part of the triggered pulse?

Thanks much for sharing!
Gene

Some scope shots of the ferris wheel free-wheeling would be interesting. It looks like the sine you show is slightly shifted to look a little more like a sawtooth wave. Is that perhaps why bedini is using neos to bias the flux of the larger ceramic? to help shape the wave being shared by the rotor? It would fit with some of the waveforms hes put in the FEG book.

Thanks for sharing the scope shots.
Gene

[genessc]

Howdy John K,

I built me a magnetic amplifier to learn and study from. Its here in this youtube vid I put up last friday.

YouTube - 1000 Watt Magnetic Amplifier running 500 watts of lamps.

A basic Mag amp needs one AC winding and one Control winding which is controlled with DC power. (or so the mag-amp book says.) However theres a homemade mag-amp site on the sparkbangbuzz site that is what I made use of to build my mag-amp using 3 of the same model 1000va transformers.

In effect only one of the transformers is the load transformer. The other two transformers are used to create an asymetry on ONE side of the output load transformer. The other side of the output from the load transformer goes directly to the load. The two transformers are wired up on the other end of the load winding in series and finally out to the load. The DC bias of those two trafos (short for transformers) is then wired in "BFCEC" which means bifilar common end connected, which nulls the inductance of the two windings put in such relation or would if they shared a common axis and core, however in this instance it just seems to make it so the bias winding can't be shorted to cause the AC load to be powered. If you short the bias winding and the load gets power, then the DC bias windings are connected wrongly.

The interesting thing about a magnetic amp is that it "switches current". The voltage sine wave is always present on the load trafos output winding so that if you put a resistive lamp load over the winding, the sine will go flat as there is no CURRENT there to keep the sine from sagging. What happens if you use a cap as the load? I don't yet know, but will soon.

The idea is that the cap won't act as a short to the load so the full sine should still be let thru but the rate of charge would be based on the amount of current needed to bring up the rated farad capacity of the cap to the volts being output from the load trafo.

This then brought me to think about chopping the DC pulse bias. So I did that. I found that I need an ON duty of about 98% to get full output from the trafos load winding. (this without the cap on the DC bias to hold the charge, which I think might change the DUTY a little ... hopefully.) I need to add a cap there and see if it doesn't allow me to reduce the ON duty further while still being able to retain the output from the mag-amps load winding at full voltage. (albeit chopped).

So Chopping the DC bias on this mag-amp made little improvement over the power needed to turn it on or off. I am almost just as well able to use the DC bias in constant on as theres not much savings in pulsing/chopping the DC bias pulses if I still want the full rated volts output in the sine.

Thats my study of the magnetic amp I built on my bench so far. Thoughts/comments? how does this apply to the ferris wheel setup?

Seeing as the SG is a rotary magnetic amplifier that switches on a single polarity, perhaps the field shaping of the rotor is getting the waveform to trigger the drive circuit just right so that its better able to work with the now biased sine waveform that appears to be emitting a single polarity ramped over time versus the sudden drop to zero perceived as the field reguaging function on the typical SG perhaps? The balanced sine wave has the same time to drop to zero as it took to get from zero to the peak. The biased waveform presented in Nvissers vid shows that the neo has altered this sine into more of a sawtooth wave.

Good stuff... Hope I'm not off-topic sharing the mag-amp I mocked up.

Take care all,
Gene

Hi John B,

I have been researching mag amps and I think I know how you have the main coil hooked up as one.

Can you confirm that one of the #18 thinner windings is used for DC bias, the other #18 thinner winding is used for the control wire, and the two #15 thicker windings are wired together in series and in phase?


John K.

[minoly]

Minoly,
The switch I'm building is not the same thing I'm just waiting for the germanium blanks to come. I already have the silicon Fet chips I need very lower power device .5 volts to .75.
John B

John B,
my post does kind of read that way - did not mean to imply we did what you are doing. just that we used a hall relay as one might use a reed relay. to turn things on and off. Very useful when trying to time these sensitive devices.

.5 volts, not sure what you are using it for, but that will help to get CFL light for nothing over on the Joule Ringer. we have ours oscillating like crazy, voltage climbing for the last 2 hours, disconnect the battery and it shuts down - go figure.
YouTube - min2oly's Channel

I'm sure it's all fluff voltage at this point - we'll keep at it. maybe if we clean up our wires... that would mean a run to the store for more soldering tips.
Patrick & Son

[genessc]

Howdy John B,

Sounds like you are looking to use the flux of the magnets passing by to activate this magnetic relay maybe? I see a magnets flux as pure current... converting some of that to voltage needs an inductance. Low resistance high inductance coils like the SG coils seem to provide just about that voltage for turn on and the full current to drive what sounds like a custom die germanium transistor to actuate the relay.

You looking to make it latch? Or just a momentary contact relay?

I spent a little time looking for relays I could hit with a small DC pulse to activate them which would latch and unlatch from the unipolar dc pulse. The problem is those types of relays don't seem to get very big in terms of power handling capacity.

Will be curious to hear how it goes, hopefully it aligns to your vision.

Take care man,
Gene

John B,
my post does kind of read that way - did not mean to imply we did what you are doing. just that we used a hall relay as one might use a reed relay. to turn things on and off. Very useful when trying to time these sensitive devices.

.5 volts, not sure what you are using it for, but that will help to get CFL light for nothing over on the Joule Ringer. we have ours oscillating like crazy, voltage climbing for the last 2 hours, disconnect the battery and it shuts down - go figure.
YouTube - min2oly's Channel

I'm sure it's all fluff voltage at this point - we'll keep at it. maybe if we clean up our wires... that would mean a run to the store for more soldering tips.
Patrick & Son