Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

John K.
Are you using 12 volts or 36 volts?
You may want to adjust all values. Your circuit should not be overheating
or popping any transistors. circuit should be running around 45 C at the max.
John B

[BrentA929]

Coils

John B,

I remember that you had mentioned Ron Cole's notes on inductors were never published, but that he stated if the inductors were not all equal and were in parallel that the current would not increase...only by a fraction. Which was the thing that drove GE nuts! And if you held the two extra windings at a bias voltage inside that you would get the coil discharging at different times.

Can you give us any reassurance that we will be able to duplicate or uncover this with the way we are getting ready to wind our coils? Two #15 and two #18 all the same length, wound together but not twisted...


Thanks, Brent

[llynch]

Ed's magnet flow

I was contemplating the energy flow in the coils from the point of starting the motor. These are the steps I tried to visualize in trying to understand it. I think it is helping me understand the windings of the coil and the pumping action of the coils in turn it may help others.

1) Move the wheel a short distance in the opposite direction of the intended rotation of the machine when it is started.
2) energizes the slave cores, causing a flow of energy in the coils
3) the energy of the slave coils moves towards the main large coil
4) a polarity is setup in the main large coil

Assuming this is correct I ask myself these questions.

What is the polarity of the slave coils at the end of step one?
And how I can test that?

What is the polarity of the main large coil in step four?

Where are the magnets located at the end of step one?

Is the condition of magnets and coils at step four in attraction or repulsion?

What happens to the condition when the wheel is released?

What happens to the energy in the main large coil when the wheel is release?

[John_K]

John K.
Are you using 12 volts or 36 volts?
You may want to adjust all values. Your circuit should not be overheating
or popping any transistors. circuit should be running around 45 C at the max.
John B

Hi John B,

I'm using 36V primary and secondary batteries (3 x 12V 130Ah in series). Coil is using 2 x #21 wires in parallel.

I will try adjusting all the values. Tell Rick to expect another order for more MJLs to replace the BBQ'd one.

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated!


John K.

[Rl2003]

Hey Brent, I just finished winding new coils for my Mini GT3, and I what I found out
is don't trust the coil calculators 100%. My coils are smaller but the
goal is to get them just right, they get you close, but not exact. Like JB said,
leave some extra wire for a few more windings if you need to add them.
Also when you measure your inductance, I would check them with and without the
core. It makes them alittle more acurate, and don't leave stray side cutters near by.
I had a pair sitting a few inchs from the coil and if made a difference in the reading.

The first set of coils I made I wound the slaves first, and then the Master coil.
I would suggest you wind the main and then the slaves. It is much simpler to
add or remove winding from the slaves to get them matched.

May be this will help anyone trying a smaller replication, hopefully it will
save someone some time.

I ended up with, Main coil 2 #18 AWG 2 #21 AWG 325 feet each. 563 turns
(same spools Rick sells) coil core is 20 mm in dia. and the length is 80mm

Main coil w/o core
winding #1 @120 hz 6.33 mh.... @1k 6.02 mh
winding #2 @120 hz 6.26 mh.... @1k 5.94 mh

Main coil w/core
winding #1 @120 hz 22.5 mh.... @1k 22.5 mh.... r@2.4 ohms
winding #2 @120 hz 22.6 mh.... @1k 22.5 mh.... r@2.3 ohms

My two slave coils are smaller spools.
Coil core is 20 mm in dia. length is 50mm

Slave #1 162 feet #18 AWG 422 turns on the spool.
w/o core @120 hz 2.63 mh w/core @120 hz 11.3 mh.... r@1.4 ohms

Slave #2 162 feet #18 AWG 420 turns on the spool.
w/o core @120 hz 2.55 mh w/ core @120 hz 11.25 mh.... r@1.3 ohms

These are all close numbers, but here is the discloser. Even the length of the core and how far it sticks out, will change the numbers slightly.

I do realize that when I did a parallel resistor calculation it drops below 1 ohm.
But I also noted that as the magnet past of the core it jumps up to as high as
40 ohms. We shall see...

Mark P.

John B,

Can you give us any reassurance that we will be able to duplicate or uncover this with the way we are getting ready to wind our coils? Two #15 and two #18 all the same length, wound together but not twisted...


Thanks, Brent

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

Brent,
The notes apply to the Bedini/Cole Window Motor which also applies to the other motors. if the wires are wound together at the same time. Cole said and demonstrated adding coils in series and parallel in series the current is reduced (known).

When the coils are parallel the current should increase but it only increases by a fraction, in other words, if the current in the motor was 200Ma it would only increase 210 when it should have increased to 500 Ma.This always baffled Cole.

It did not baffle me because I had seen this in the G-field generator as the output only increased by a few Ma so it was not worth adding the extra coils to lower the impedance. Even if I set up a Monopole it still does not make any difference until you put them in branches and drive each coil then it will increase.

The next problem is the capacitance so I took all the wires and twisted them together which made a big difference and then branched them off to each transistor. Some, at the last conference noted Ricks Lawnmower if you looked at the coil Rick had about 2000 wires all wound together as one coil on that machine. that Lawnmower was using less then 2 amps at full speed.
Ron Coles notes state this very clear when we were building the Window Motor.
John B

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

R12003,
That is right never trust the math as it only allows ball park figures, what does that tell you about meters as they are all different also. Eric Dollard use to say it's the Fudge Factor they added into the equations to keep you going in circles. And do not have anything around those coils when measuring.
Now, that is why I said have extra wire as you will need it.

John B

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

John K,
What you need to do is look at the waveform when switching the motor. you want to adjust the circuit for the best possible square wave you can get.
You might try adjusting the 220 Ohm resistor first.
John B

[ren]

John K,
What you need to do is look at the waveform when switching the motor. you want to adjust the circuit for the best possible square wave you can get.
You might try adjusting the 220 Ohm resistor first.
John B

John K, I talked briefly with you about this resistance before. When I played around with the full circuit this resistor was fine for 12v but as soon as you went higher you could get MUCH better speeds for less input by increasing the resistance here. I had a 1k pot, with the 220 fixed from memory. At 24v input I could only add 1-200 ohms or so, but the higher I went the more resistance I could run here. The "RPM Test" video I did of my window motor build showed the effect nicely, abiet, with trigger coils instead of halls. Motor would speed up to a set speed @ around 2 amps input, increase of resistance
at this stage would make it take off and amp draw dropped to 500ma. It was a little trickey to balance both halves of the circuit, I used a separate pot for each 220 ohm (should have used a dual pot perhaps). But you shouldnt have that problem here with the half circuit of course.

My 0.02 cents.

Regards

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

John K,
Did you get your circuit going? try using a 680 ohm resistor inplace of the 220.
John B

[BrentA929]

Weight

RS,

Your numbers look real close to mine...

The main difference is how we calculated the center coil WITH and WITHOUT the control windings in the equation.
EDIT: RS in post 839 has the same numbers we have


Here is my question:

Has anyone tried to determine the weight of the RG60 rod core based on the dimensions that JB gave us last week?


Scott (txaggie00) and I put a pencil to it and came up with some rough estimates while we wait for our coils to come in some time next week...

If you take the 3" diameter for the spools and fill them up with 1/16" RG60 rods @ 14" long (11" spool + 3" extended core) you come up with needing approximately 2000 pieces (+ or - 150). This will give you about 23-26 lbs. of rod just for the center coil.

This gives us 115 lbs. of wire and about 25 lbs. for the core = 140 lbs. We are light by roughly 60 lbs., that seems pretty far off from the 205 lbs.


Anyone? Any thoughts? Are we still missing something on the main coil?


Thanks, Brent

Hi, John B, Brent and all,

Based on my Mathcad AWG Magnet Wire Calculator,

and based on JB's posted DCR measurements and my understanding of the 4 15Ga strands hooked up as the drive coil circuit......
and the 2 18ga control strands are not apart of the drive circuit

Main Coil
for 15 Ga wire, 767 meters = 2516.4 Ft = 8ohms at 25.229 Lb

2 in parallel on the main coil = 4 ohms at 50.458 LB

Slave Coils

15Ga 978 meters = 3208.661 Ft = 10.2ohms at 32.165 Lb

2 Slave coils in parallel = 5.1 ohms at 64.33 LB


4 strands of 15ga in parallel, 2 on main coil and 2 Slave coils = 2.242ohm total Drive circuit resistance, total weight = 114.815 Lb 15ga wire

767 meters of 18 Ga on main coil for mag amp control = 16.069ohms at 12.635 Lb
2 strands of 18ga = 25.27 Lb

Main coil Weight = 75.728 Lb

140.058 Lb 3 Coil weight total

JB, if the Resistance measurements change, when you get your meter back, than i will tweek these values to match it......

Thanks as always, for sharing everything with everybody....

RS

[John_K]

John K,
Did you get your circuit going? try using a 680 ohm resistor inplace of the 220.
John B

Hi John B,

Yes I did after replacing both of the MJL's for a matched pair. I also spent a bit of time chasing down a bad connection on pin3 of the hall.

Anyhow, I had it running nicely on 12V and then swapped the 220 ohm resistor for a 470 ohm. Still ran OK, so I hooked up the 36V batteries.

The problem I found was that the machine would run fine on 12V, but on 36V the circuit draws current without the hall being anywhere near a magnet (at least 2 feet away). If I dosconnect pin1 of the hall the circuit no longer draws current. I checked for bad hookups and poor connections but ran out of time last night. I will check it out again with fresher eyes tonight.

Thanks for the suggestion of a 680 ohm in place of the 220. I will try that as well.

How's your Stubblefield work going?


John K.

[Les_K]

John K,
Do you have any numbers on your coil? I am getting ready to build mine and wasn't sure if you expanded your coil with a second spool etc.
My spool is 7 inches by 3 inches with 3/4 hole for the rods. but I am still trying to figure the proper gauges to end up with the right DCR.
I have most of my frame completed and will start working on the wheel next week. I haven't oredered my wire yet so that is still open to changes.

thanks
Les

[BrentA929]

Center coil

John B,

Not to sound like a broken record...

And maybe you have reason not to answer this, but can you clear up what you have said about the slave coils being half the impedance of the center coil, yet your measurements that you gave us a couple of days ago are very different.


Thanks, Brent

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

John K,
I have all the parts, LaserSaber is real quiet now for some reason. I found out how to get the bearings and rotor using a ball bearing fan. You need to machine the parts to work, makes the best rotor. I also made a Iron pyrite / magnesium battery that work real good, It's a liquid battery and works with just plain tap water or just plain distilled water.

I have added nothing to the water very high current battery 1.5 amps 1.2 volts when the water runs dry just add water. I'm going to see if I can electroplate to the rock. I was running the motor on 1volt and charging 12 volt batteries. I'm working on the low voltage switch to take the place of the reed switch. I also think that I can make the Bedini/Cole switch at these levels with the reed.

My coils are 4000 turns of # 31 wire around 550 Ohms. I used Ricks Kit coils and re-wound them. I did get a MPS A06 to work good switching it. With the Reed in the circuit I get 90 volts across it. I found out that putting a neon across the reed works the best and saves the contacts, also you can use a condenser like point on a car.

I have also found that other minerals work just as well. Magnesium is the wonder metal with all of this. I have designed some real unique motors that I will post. Just using this you can charge nickel metal hydrate batteries for free, just need water. You can even run the monopole on the water batteries and charge Lead acid. I also did what I said using Iron and magnesium in a tree that makes a good battery also for running this stuff. I will post this all on youtube when I get done.
John B