Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[scratchrobot]

I also want to point out that ,Shorting coils circuits was done back in 1984 by Ron Cole as I have one of the pro-types setting right here on my shelf so it is not new.
But I would still like to have The Fets if you could get them for this size machine.
John B

Have you seen Ismael Aviso's video's ? What do you think ?
If it is real then he has taken the coil shorten circuit to a new level.
I supose the pro-types of Ron Cole were no succes because we are 2011 now.

Regards,

[John_Bedini]

Bedini 16 GT-3

Hi Gyula,
Thanks for indicating that, but I will stick with the Bi-polar switching as the circuit I'm using completely isolates from the power supply lines.
I suggest that everybody takes that into account with this Motor, Lenz's law has not ever been a problem here with this machine as it does not generate. You must understand my thinking on this as I have encountered that problem before but not on this machine. As I said before you all have your own minds and you do what you think is best for this application.

I have said my piece on this. I will wait to see this working with whatever you all choose. But thanks Gyula for clearing that up as I could not see the devices used as my computer screen had this all fuzzy at work.
Gyula look at the capacitor in line. I can see this working but only to a point to where the coil will not return anything. This is going to work for the application they are using it for, but not me. Thanks

Scratchrobot, Ron's machine worked very well but now is not the time for this, and besides I do not know who i'm talking too here.


John B

[minoly]

coil shorting

we first saw it a couple of years ago here:
YouTube - Flyback From Generator Coil
just pick up a reed and use the magnets you already have on the rotor to short it.
we did it recently here:
YouTube - reed window motor generator
and over a year ago here:
YouTube - 3 Pole Monopole Back-popping
someone posted a "magneto generator" from 1875 that was suppose to be used "for nervous diseases" they purchased at a flea market.
YouTube - Magneto Electric Machine. W T. Bolton 1875 (former owner?) For nervous diseases
it uses the coil shorting technique.
if you have access to monopople 2 group:
http://tinyurl.com/6879kmg

I knew I should have ordered more MJL's when I first asked the question. will have to wait to do the paralleled MJL's experiment until my order arrives...
Thanks John B. :-)

P'n'S

[BrentA929]

Getting Close

John B,

Thanks for the extra reassurance and you better believe I am going to get it running!!! Scott and I have every intention to duplicate your amazing work on the GT3 to a T...well, everything except rotor size. No place for a twelve footer, so we had to go with our 6' Junior GT3!

All we lack as of now, is the welding rod. I have a friend that works for AirGas and is getting us the hook-up on a 50 lb. box. Great right? Wrong! He is taking forever. I should have just bought it. Oh well, I'll just blame it on Scott. Ha!

Since you brought up the capacitor size again, let me ask how critical 16K really is or is something close ok? Mouser is the only place we can find that value and they have some ridiculous minimum order of like 2000 on that one. Would we be able to duplicate your output with 17000 uF 75V? Or do you recommend some other value to try?


Thanks again and hope to be spinning soon!


Brent (beers on me in July)

John K,
Some tips.....
Think I might say again the big coils are far different in what they can do as far as recovery energy output to the batteries. The bigger the coils the more you will collect. I'm hoping Brent gets his machine running. I might point out that the Bedini Cole switch was changed by me for that machine. This is not the same machine everybody is use to. You all have the basics to get this device working and working good. If you do a simple experiment with a coil that large you will discover the energy returned is something to be dealt with.

The reason I used a capacitor that big (16.000 uf 75 v) is because it is a constant device that really does not change impedance, in other words it stays the same as it charges up so the circuit could be adjusted for the best charge, and it had to do with the timing. I walked away from that machine many times before I got it right.

"Everybody is searching for my impedance of my coils Brent has the correct impedance".
Tip #2

Make the bipolar switch single transistors use a 2 amp light in place of the coils ( use 12 volts to do this) Then start to add parallel transistors until it is as bright as you can get it, just like in the window motor vid, you can see in the box. Heat sink them down. it takes about 4 of each device to do this. Then hook to the coil without running the machine and switch it on by hand watch the capacitor on the output, you will see it when you get it just right.

I know you all have your own opinion that's fine but change it after it is working.

John K Hope you can come to the next one if the world does not blow up.
John, Thanks for fixing CH , analog is the answer John the new one is a killer ask Rick I'm not kidding either.
John B

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT16-3

Brent,
Just find a surplus house and get some different values at 75 volts, they are +/-- 20 % anyway. You should not pay more then $5.00 for used capacitors that will work just as good as new for this machine. I just grabbed a 16,000 uf out of an old amplifier and it worked fine. I have moved around old capacitors from the 70's. It's crazy to buy capacitors for 75.00 dollars new. If you look around on E-bay or even surplus you can find these caps. it's not that critical as long as the value is close to what I was using.
John B

[BrentA929]

Capacitor

John B,

Thanks for your help!

We have been to the local surplus house and have purchased a few different values. Can't remember which ones we got. Can we put them in parallel to get close or is it best to have only one capacitor?


Thanks, Brent

Brent,
Just find a surplus house and get some different values at 75 volts, they are +/-- 20 % anyway. You should not pay more then $5.00 for used capacitors that will work just as good as new for this machine. I just grabbed a 16,000 uf out of an old amplifier and it worked fine. I have moved around old capacitors from the 70's. It's crazy to buy capacitors for 75.00 dollars new. If you look around on E-bay or even surplus you can find these caps. it's not that critical as long as the value is close to what I was using.
John B

[scratchrobot]

Scratchrobot, Ron's machine worked very well but now is not the time for this, and besides I do not know who i'm talking too here.

John B

You are talking to the world here, I did not know about shorting the coils, I always thought it was about opening them at the peak. I guess I have to experiment myself and see what it does.

Regards

[gyula]

Hi John,

I see, thanks very much for your answers.

Together with member minoly video links on coil shorting he kindly collected and posted above (thanks minoly), I will surely understand the behavior in the different cases.

Rgds,
Gyula

Hi Gyula,
Thanks for indicating that, but I will stick with the Bi-polar switching as the circuit I'm using completely isolates from the power supply lines.
I suggest that everybody takes that into account with this Motor, Lenz's law has not ever been a problem here with this machine as it does not generate. You must understand my thinking on this as I have encountered that problem before but not on this machine. As I said before you all have your own minds and you do what you think is best for this application.

I have said my piece on this. I will wait to see this working with whatever you all choose. But thanks Gyula for clearing that up as I could not see the devices used as my computer screen had this all fuzzy at work.
Gyula look at the capacitor in line. I can see this working but only to a point to where the coil will not return anything. This is going to work for the application they are using it for, but not me. Thanks
....
John B

[Mark]

Hey Minoly

Nice little window motor . Have you tried to run it off of a super cap yet?

[minoly]

Hey Minoly

Nice little window motor . Have you tried to run it off of a super cap yet?

Thanks, it does very nice on supercap. it does even better w/ half-bipolar switch, better recovery than w/ the reed, we can run it harder off of 6-12 volts.

note on paralleled transistors.
Ok, I could not wait for our order of MJL's to come in so we cannibalized robbed one of our machines of 5 21194's - we did not make the bipolar switch, rather, I just wanted to see what paralleled transistors would do w/ the SG ckt since we do not have any 21193's to spare. we did not do the 2 amp bulb first, because we did not know if it would apply to the SG ckt. we just wanted to take a known build that we have using 1 transistor and perallel some additional transistors to see the effect if any.
we used one big 6.8ohm 23 awg 3/4" core coil
bike wheel w/ normal ceramics spaced 4 apart.
hall for switching.
it seemed to us that the charging may have been better, however, it was not dramatic enough for us, so rather than do the runs. we had an idea.
in the past we have added a choke on the neg. of the primary which made our neon light up.
- side note - as part of the cannibalizing we did not put the neon back on.
who needs it when you have 5 MJL2119's in parallel right?
once we added the choke,
and an additional 6.4 ohm 23awg 3/4" core coil - charging went through the roof, primary drain did not increase by much. all was fine MJL's running cold - cold!
next - some impatience -
swapped out the wheel for another w/ double layered ceramics in N/S arrangement spaced 3 magnet widths apart so we could add a Genny coil and do some additional work...
charging seemed about the same,
after about 2 minutes the wheel started to slow, started to adjust pot etc...
to see if it was getting out of tune...
touched one of the transistors and nearly got a blister on the spot.
shut everything down.
all transistors blown. Did this happen because of over saturation of the core? or did it have something to do w/ N/S arrangement?
will have to wait for new order to do more testing.
anyone else having fun w/ paralleled transistors?

P'n'S

[minoly]

Ok,
P'n'S "the cannibalizers" back for more:
brought the experiment inside to shoot a quick vid:
YouTube - paralleled transistors
still do not have enough to keep spiky at bay, however...
will have to wait for delivery.
P'n'S out

[minoly]

Ok,
P'n'S "the cannibalizers" back for more:
brought the experiment inside to shoot a quick vid:
YouTube - paralleled transistors
still do not have enough to keep spiky at bay, however...
will have to wait for delivery.
P'n'S out

It was brought to my attention that we are not paralleling the transistors by connecting all the b c e together - however - that we have put them in series by doing this.

@ John B.
we are still waiting for our 21193's, however, is this the way you meant for us to parallel them?
or is there another way?

Patrick

[citfta]

@minoly,

if you connect all C's together and all B's together and all E's together then you are connecting them in parallel. The transistors need to be matched to connect them this way or else the one with the most gain will try to hog more of the current. By connecting each emitter to ground through an equalizing resistor you can use transistors that are not matched exactly. The resistance only needs to be an ohm or so to balance the load on all the transistors. John B. may have a better way to connect them as he is definitely the expert on transistors. This info is just based on my years as an electronic tech. Hope this helps.

Carroll

[minoly]

Thanks Carroll
that must be why John B. posted a link on how to match transistors. I'm pretty sure the resistor would kill or dampen the radiant event we are looking for. please correct me if I'm wrong.
when I first read that post, I thought it was only to match the Darlington pair, it can be used to match them all.
so, how many do you think I have to order to get an 8 Darlington match?
Ouch - I'll try my luck w/ 8 each and see what happens. unless anyone here knows of a company that will match them prior to shipping...?
thanks again,

Patrick

[BrentA929]

Cold Boils

Hey John K,

I would sure love to know what you and JB are talking about...

Cold boils in minutes? That's what I'm talking about! Any hints?


Thanks, Brent

I'll be at the next one so long as the world doesn't blow up. No probs about fixing CH, it's a great one! Rick and the other person tells me the new one is like "WOW!" I've done some testing with what I think is similar - battery cold boils in minutes and I had to tame it down because I was using digital switching. Pegged out the meter and scared the pants off me! I agree, analog is the way to go here - much easier way to switch, set it right and walk away.

See ya in July!


John K.