Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[thaelin]

Hi all:
I have been silent here just being a spectator as I have no way to go this big. Apt living has its down side. I did come up with a small fix to one of your problems tho. Since you are not going at a high rate of pulses, I think this will help out thoes that want to see the spike directly and not kill the trannies.
I have done this many times and it works very well. Since you are using 24 to 36 volts anyhow, go find a good grade relay that triggers on 24v and just let the transistors fire that from say a pair of slabs. Hook the relay in place across the coils and run the circuit. It will arc violently if you do not use a snubber cap on the switch pins but you can directly view the output pulse and not kill things. It will take a lot of punishment before you destroy it.

For what its worth, you guys have a big audience out here watching how you progress. And progress you are. I am stuck at about 24" diam for ever.

Thaelin

[erikbuch]

Getting started...

Finally getting started .... just before i have to go offshore for work for 14 days
I'm going for a almost 5 footer, or exactly 150 cm to be presice.
2 of these with some spacing of wood. 150 cm should make a distance between magnets of 29,43 cm center-center. That should make some room for playing with different kind of spools, i hope.
Erik
5 footer1.JPG

[txaggie00]

Ok, Scott;
What I noticed about John K's setup is what I read in the book John bedini was signing at the conference(which I sadly missed). page 16 of FEG. If you have a copy, read the last paragraph on that page about what is not in the text books. Very interesting.

Thanks Les! I am out of pocket this weekend, but as soon as I get a chance I will look that up in the FEG. Interesting questions about the coils and what JB said. Brent and I have discussed this entire thread in length and we have the very same questions. We said a long time ago, that this thread needed to be separated into two different threads. One for the 16GT Monopole and one for the re-gauging motor. I think ultimately, the goal is the re-gauging motor, but you almost have to start with the wheel before you can attempt that. This thread has been somewhat confusing at times because both topics have been discussed at the same time. I know exactly what you are talking about with the ring twice. For a while we thought it had to do with the re-gauging motor because so much of it had been discussed alongside Ed's work and ringing twice, as we know, is also Ed, so we are interested in the answers to the very same questions.

I saw your video and thanks, by the way! I am sure I have said it before, but I really like your setup. It looks great! Glad you got past your small hiccup and got it all working! I wish there were some way we could get all our builds under the same roof and examine them all. I am sure each build has their own unique characteristics while all achieving the same desired result.

It's starting to get really exciting seeing all these builds come together!

Thanks,
Scott

@Dave: Thanks for the scope shots! We had no problem seeing them. Brent has finished the other slave coil, so we should have it on by Monday. We are going to have to readjust all of our coils. We will probably utilize the scope to help us get it timed right. I appreciate your thoroughness in explaining your scope shots. It helped me understand what we are looking at.

[txaggie00]

Finally getting started .... just before i have to go offshore for work for 14 days
I'm going for a almost 5 footer, or exactly 150 cm to be presice.
2 of these with some spacing of wood. 150 cm should make a distance between magnets of 29,43 cm center-center. That should make some room for playing with different kind of spools, i hope.
Erik
[ATTACH]7947[/ATTACH]

Awesome Erik! Looks like you're off to a good start! We look forward to seeing your build come together!

Thanks,
Scott

[Les_K]

Thanks Les! I am out of pocket this weekend, but as soon as I get a chance I will look that up in the FEG. Interesting questions about the coils and what JB said. Brent and I have discussed this entire thread in length and we have the very same questions. We said a long time ago, that this thread needed to be separated into two different threads. One for the 16GT Monopole and one for the re-gauging wheel. I think ultimately, the goal is the re-gauging wheel, but you almost have to start with the wheel before you can attempt that. This thread has been somewhat confusing at times because both topics have been discussed at the same time. I know exactly what you are talking about with the ring twice. For a while we thought it had to do with the re-gauging wheel because so much of it had been discussed alongside Ed's work and ringing twice, as we know, is also Ed, so we are interested in the answers to the very same questions.

I saw your video and thanks, by the way! I am sure I have said it before, but I really like your setup. It looks great! Glad you got past your small hiccup and got it all working! I wish there were some way we could get all our builds under the same roof and examine them all. I am sure each build has their own unique characteristics while all achieving the same desired result.

It's starting to get really exciting seeing all these builds come together!

Thanks,
Scott

@Dave: Thanks for the scope shots! We had no problem seeing them. Brent has finished the other slave coil, so we should have it on by Monday. We are going to have to readjust all of our coils. We will probably utilize the scope to help us get it timed right. I appreciate your thoroughness in explaining your scope shots. It helped me understand what we are looking at.

Thanks for the complement, I have to admit, the machine looks much nicer outside the shop...

I am glad I am not the only one struggling on those points. I have tried very hard to keep a specific path of following one state of progression at a time. Getting the wheel to spin and play with the timing on one coil was quite a leap. then as I added the other two coils It got really cool! Then I added the cap pulser circuit and then the extra transistors. The final stage for me was getting the Zener in place so I could run at 36 volts. which then has set me to thinking about the magnets. Seems like the logical next step until I can get better batteries.

The neos are to pull the north in as I understand it. But John also mentioned the reason to pull them in was to get them to switch like Barium magnets did on the re-gauging motor. I noticed that when I attached the small extra neos. the machine developed a deep rumble. The sound was familiar to me as I had wired my coils reverse at one time so it was in attraction mode instead of repulsion. and it pounded that machine. So I am guessing that maybe the purpose is to get the fields to switch. Anyway That is now where I am getting stuck.

How do we know we have the right magnetic pull on the ceramic magnets ?

It almost seems that as the magnet reaches the first side coil the field is flipped. Then as it approaches the center coil it is in attraction mode(since now it is a south pole) and then when it reaches the last oustide coil it's polarity is then flipped back to go around and start all over.
But I am only guessing and can't determine anything valid on this point.


Les

[BrentA929]

All coils are on - 3GT "Junior"

@All

Scott and I got the 3rd and final slave coil on this weekend, but haven't had much time to mess with it nor did we bring the camera in today. Will try and show it tomorrow!

Thanks, Brent

[txaggie00]

Schematic clarification

@John K,

I was reviewing your schematic, b/c I was going to try and implement your idea of paralleling some IN4007's tomorrow and had a couple questions for you. The dot on the inductor symbol denotes the bottom or start of the winding correct? If so, why is yours hooked up to the 93 transistor? Also, you have the schottky coming of the 94's and bottom of the coils going to the positive of the cap and charging batteries. I believe this is what you and Les were trying to tell me in your earlier posts, correct?

Thanks,
Scott

EDIT: I am posting a schematic. If you don't mind checking it over to see if it's right, I'd appreciate it!

[BrentA929]

Bedini GT3 "Junior" - trying to solve the riddles

John B,

As you can see we have all the construction done...

Bedini GT3 "Junior" latest video!


We still have lots of questions and could sure use your assistance and guidance:

Brent,
The thread is not heading in a different direction I'm here to help, looks like your ready to go. Nice wheel, looks like you have done a great job on that. I'm working on something else here but I'm here to help. I will start a new thread on that or have Aaron do it if I need to. I have always been exploring Stubblefield.

John

Scott and I have been having many conversations recently in regards to what we think are some key items. We don't necessarily agree on alot of them and sure could use your guidance. We have both gone back and looked at the previous posts, but with much discrepancies. I have tried to link some of the most pertinent post that have lead to our discussions.


IRON FLAPS - It is still real unclear to us if the iron flap is suppose to be bonded in any way.

TIMING WHEEL - We think this is suppose to be a 1:1 on magnet spacing. You mention a square wave on the timing. To us that suggests a 50% duty cycle. We are constructing a new wheel to try this.

MAG AMP - Here is where we differ the most. I think that the control wires might be shorted on themselves or hooked up in some special way. There are many places in previous posts where you talk about "if" you parallel all the windings then the measurement is this or just hook them all up in parallel for now then decide what you are going to do with the control wires. Any hints here?

OUTPUT SWITCH - Too many times have you said that you are using a FET for the output switch and no one has really figured it out that I can tell. RS has come the closest, but it doesn't stay true to the one black wire in and one black wire out. I feel like you are wanting us to reverse the FET in some way with all hints about looking at devices a certain way and the whole "built in diodes and "Zeners" get it." (which a FET has). If this is what you are wanting us to see then maybe someone can help us out here! Also, is there one switch or three?

CHARGE VOLTAGE - Are we looking to charge the cap up to double the battery voltage (72 V) before we dump? Or is it suppose to be more around 42.5V?


We are doing our best to replicate your work as close as we can, but like you say...

FRC,
No the Joule Ringer circuit is limited and that would just make an eternal light if you could supply the capacitor with an endless stream of charging current for that device that is why I mentioned the use of the Captret but sooner or later that runs dead also because the capacitor leaks to much even if it is micro amperes.

I do not know why LaserSaber does not talk about it that much as he has made a nice discovery and needs to understand why the effect is there. I have tried to get him to talk but about it as I have seen some of the same things. This brings me to Hendeshot had the same motor. Science is Science and you can't change that. I have given all the information on the GT3 motor just build it the way I did don't change anything. You will get it to work.

Now I see the direction I should go in and must follow it to the end, that will not be in my lifetime. Something is just pulling at me about Iron wire and I'm just trying to give everybody the head's up. Negative energy zero point it's all the same thing, so it requires something different to work with it. But what LaserSaber has done is not new, just different. The circuit for this is very critical as it must join Germanium to silicon devices.
John B

As always, thanks for all your help!!!


Brent

[Ron Chase]

Great Work

Brent and Scott,

Good looking system, congratulations! I know how much work you've put into this project as, I'm in the middle of my own 5' diameter ferris wheel project. Will post some pictures soon. I share many of the same questions you have and also the desire to get some clear answers and yet still have the challange of learning by doing. Keep up the good work.

Ron

[txaggie00]

Riddle answered???

Brent and Scott,

Good looking system, congratulations! I know how much work you've put into this project as, I'm in the middle of my own 5' diameter ferris wheel project. Will post some pictures soon. I share many of the same questions you have and also the desire to get some clear answers and yet still have the challange of learning by doing. Keep up the good work.

Ron

Thanks Ron! We appreciate it! Hopefully, with all these builds going on, we will all be able help each other and figure this out.

@All,

We noticed something interesting the other day. Before we starting building our coils, we were very confused as to why JB had initially said that his coils measured 12.6 Ohms, but then told us it was 2.2 Ohms. After running our wheel for a while, we disconnected the coils from the circuit. An hour later, when I was thinking about it, we measured the coils with our meter and were surprised to see it at 12.8 Ohms. We shorted them all and it then measured 3 Ohms. We thought that was interesting and, in my mind, answered that riddle. Anyway, all we can do is just keep pulugging away.

Thanks,
Scott

Sounds from the thread

[Ron Chase]

Zapped

Hey Scott,

From what you measured on your coils it seems right that all windings of all coils are all in parallel. Thats the way I calculated for my coils.

Speaking of coils I had an interesting and shocking experience after I finished winding my center coil, I was measuring the 2 power windings for resistance in ohms with a Fluke multimeter and when holding on to one end of one of the power windings I happened to also touch the end of one of the control windings and got a big ZAP. Of course this happened a few more times (Duh) so eventually I checked for voltage between power windings and control windings after measuring for resistance and low and behold each control wire had been inductively charged to over 130V by the 9V battery in the multimeter. That says loads about the energetic capacity of these larger coils. Did you notice anything similar when you wound your center coil?

Thanks again for sharing, Ron

[erikbuch]

Hi All!

Great work everybody! This is truly a great source of inspiration!!!

@Ron Can you share with us your coil data?
I've been calculating on mine(not yet built) but I think I'm going to try:

Main coil:
18 avg ,1660 feet pr strand = 12,46 ohm x2 = 6,23ohm Total of 3320 feet
21 avg ,1660 feet pr strand = 25,73 ohm x2 = 12,86ohm Total of 3320 feet

Slaves
18 avg 830feet = 6,23 ohm Pr side

Rtotal for this should be about 1.78 ohm more or less if my figures are somewhat correct.

I'm not shure what size coil-core to go for, 1" - 1.5 " ??
My wheel is a 5'

Anybody has something to say about this?


Best regards
Erik

[Rl2003]

Riddle me this, Riddle me that...Who's afraid of the BFW.

Tis quiet here, That's Bedini Ferris Wheel, for those that did'nt get it.

I think that John will answer all your questions in time, he is more than likely
very busy working on things for the Convention. It's only a couple of months out.

My .02 cents. Let keep the ideas working anyway. I know there are alot of very
intuitive people reading this but not responding. Please now is the time to just
jump in. We will make this work.

I do remember him saying that he used JB weld to bond the two together,(core
and iron sheild) and it would make smaller magnets. I just made the hole in my
sheild very tight and removed the finish on the welding rods at the point of contact.
My first build I bonded them to the sheild w/o going thru..

The magnet spacing looks like 1 to 1 to me. I looked at every thing as close as I
could at the conf. and made notes on my flight home. But I don't think that is a
breaking point. What I have found after 4 different timming wheels is on off time.
I have one more timming wheel to make, but the rpm's make a difference as well.
I have an working optical switch but need a very small gap to trigger it. Finding a
tool or lazer to do this has been a challange. Just place the hall at the tip of the
magnets to start and adj, from there. NO two builds will be identical.

Mag amp? I use all the windings in parallel. With just the Two Large
gauge wires from the master and the two from the slaves.. If you remove the two
extra (smaller gauge) winding from the master coil, off the circuit you should see no
difference. Jeremy had a different circuit from the begining I am going to play with
as well. John B. did say just hook every thing up in parallel for now, did he not??
Leads me to believe it does not stay that way.

I have not completed the FET switch but we try to get to that tonight, and will post
how it works. As far as the one black wire, this is how I have my circuit hooked up.
It is more like how you feed you wiring, and not why.

I will post more later, have to go plow the feilds....so to speak.
Mark

[txaggie00]

From what you measured on your coils it seems right that all windings of all coils are all in parallel. Thats the way I calculated for my coils.

Speaking of coils I had an interesting and shocking experience after I finished winding my center coil, I was measuring the 2 power windings for resistance in ohms with a Fluke multimeter and when holding on to one end of one of the power windings I happened to also touch the end of one of the control windings and got a big ZAP. Of course this happened a few more times (Duh) so eventually I checked for voltage between power windings and control windings after measuring for resistance and low and behold each control wire had been inductively charged to over 130V by the 9V battery in the multimeter. That says loads about the energetic capacity of these larger coils. Did you notice anything similar when you wound your center coil?

Thanks again for sharing, Ron

I agree Ron. As far as I am concerned, the only way to match the measurements JB gave us straight from the coils he measured with his meter, the coils would HAVE to be paralleled.

We didn't get zapped or notice anything like that when we finished winding our center coil, but now, of course, we are definitely going to have to try that! We will let you know how it turns out! I'll make Brent do it. I don't like the taste of copper!

EDIT: By the way, that coil is a beauty!!!!

@Mark,

I agree with you about JB. I would imagine they are wrapped up in finalizing things for the convention (After the last convention, I can't imagine how much stuff is on their plate to plan for a THREE day convention!). I hope my humor didn't imply we are impatient. The way this thread is going, though, I don't have a doubt that we can all figure this out and maybe surprise the hell out of JB.

@All,

Just wanted to give a status update. We tried the schematic I posted last with the paralleled IN4007's and let the wheel run for a while, but it eventually stopped. We had killed our trannies. I thought I had something wrong, so went back to the schematic with the bridge, put some new trannies in (Not matched, but with the base resistor, wasn't too worried), and it eventually killed those as well. Here is the thing... the trannies never got hot. The unmatched 94's got warm, but we're talking ever so slightly. So here is my thought and I'd love to hear yours as well. The trannies aren't getting hot, so we aren't killing them with current. This leads me to the conclusion that maybe the voltage spike is high enough to eventually take its toll on the trannies. We were using 4 paralleled 93's and 4 paralleled 94's. You can tell when they get shot, because the primary batteries voltage goes all over the place.

So our next experiment is to start with 2 & 2 and see how long they last, 4 & 4 then 6 & 6. We have quite a few unmatched trannies and with the base resistors, we didn't notice one being warmer then any of the others, so we aren't going to go spend more money to buy some more matched ones until we have an idea. I remember JB saying something about a tranny per winding, so maybe at least 6 paralleled trannies is the answer.

As educational as this machine has been, it's been equally frustrating. It seems that as soon as you eliminate one variable, something else happens that brings you back to the one you eliminated. But truth be told, to me, this is the best part (I'll let you know by convention time if I still feel that way ).

Oh, and we finished a larger 1:1 timing wheel with 1" magnets.

Thanks everyone!
Scott

EDIT::

I do remember him saying that he used JB weld to bond the two together,(core
and iron sheild) and it would make smaller magnets. I just made the hole in my
sheild very tight and removed the finish on the welding rods at the point of contact.
My first build I bonded them to the sheild w/o going thru..

Mark, I remember that as well and we looked that post up. We weren't quite sure if we was talking about the BFW or re-gauging motor though. I know he specifically stated that the coils for the re-gauging motor were bonded to the metal plate behind them with JB Weld and he also mentioned that the shield for the main coil (BFW) needed to be attached to the "coil form". We weren't quite sure what that meant.

[Ron Chase]

Hi All!

Great work everybody! This is truly a great source of inspiration!!!

@Ron Can you share with us your coil data?
I've been calculating on mine(not yet built) but I think I'm going to try:

Main coil:
18 avg ,1660 feet pr strand = 12,46 ohm x2 = 6,23ohm Total of 3320 feet
21 avg ,1660 feet pr strand = 25,73 ohm x2 = 12,86ohm Total of 3320 feet

Slaves
18 avg 830feet = 6,23 ohm Pr side

Rtotal for this should be about 1.78 ohm more or less if my figures are somewhat correct.

I'm not shure what size coil-core to go for, 1" - 1.5 " ??
My wheel is a 5'

Anybody has something to say about this?


Best regards
Erik

Hi Erik,

I'm building my ferris wheel at a little under 1/2 scale of the 12' diameter wheel JB built.

Here are the figures for my coils. I calculated to end up with R total = 2 ohms with all windings and all coils in parallel.

Main coil
18 awg, 2,192' one winding = 14 ohm, 2 in parallel = 7 ohm. Total of 4,384'.
21 awg, 2,187' per winding = 28 ohm, 2 in parallel = 14 ohm. Total of 4,374'.

Slaves
21 awg, 547' per winding = 7 ohm, 2 in parallel = 3.5 ohm. Total of 1,094'.

All windings in parallel = 2.0 ohms.

I found it convenient for winding to purchase 2 11 lb. reels of 18 Awg. and 2 11 lb. reels of 21 Awg.

Center coil reel measures 6.25" tall x 6.25" wide

Slave coil reels measure 3" tall x 6.25" wide.

I enlarged the center hole of the reels to 1 11/16" (43mm) diameter for the R60 welding rod core.

Hope this is useful. Ron.