Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[txaggie00]

Mark,

Here is a video of the setup I was referring to last night. The hall doesn't start over the timing magnet so it doesn't self start, but we get a really good charge rate. The wheel runs slower at about 15 RPM's and it draws on the primaries about half an amp more. The difference between what you see in this video and last night, is that, in this video we have a 15V zener for the cap dump circuit and last night we were using a 5.1V zener, so last night it was charging and dumping as fast as the SCR was allowing it.

Thanks,
Scott

EDIT: I made another quick video after I made so minor adjustments to show how it relates to speed and charging. I don't mention it in the video, but I also switched the 15V zener back to the 5.1V for the cap dump. Timing setup #2

[mbonheur]

MOSFET CapDump

This cap dump circuit that Nvisser showed looks promising. http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post129509

Dave

I feel this would be a good way to go. This circuit should work and needs the 7818 or a 7812 as the driver won't open the Mosfet gate with only 5V if we used a 7805. The parallel capacitors hooked to the 7818 would probably work as a buffer to keep the gate opened for a specific time (although 2200uF seems a bit big.).

To me, the target is not triggering the Mosfet. It is triggering it fully On for the time necessary for the discharge to take place. If people don't wont to get into programming, why not using a advanced 555 or 556 circuit that would pulse on the gate correctly?

I'll building the same switching device I'm using to do my experiments on, except MJL15024 will be IRFP450 Mosfets and probably TC4420 drivers. If there as to be "one wire in, one wire out" on both switches, I'll probably use Zeners for regulators to power the drivers... Still things to experiment on!

Pat

[BrentA929]

Cap pulser

Dave,

Wow! Don't know how I missed that...

Question: It appears as if that regulator is only rated up to 35V. How does that affect the circuit if we are running at 36V.

I'd like to try it...looks interesting. Definitely adheres to the "one wire in one out" concept. Didn't JB say his was free switching? Anyway, doesn't look like anyone ever commented on it. Has anyone tried this yet?


Thanks, Brent

If you parallel the capacitors, the plate area doubles so you have twice the capacitance. Your bank would be 8200 uF instead of 2050 uF.

@Brent
This cap dump circuit that Nvisser showed looks promising. http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post129509

Dave

[Rl2003]

Brent and Scott,
Getting a taste of how much it takes to get it just right. I would try some different
size caps as well. I can speed up or slow it down using a larger or smaller cap.
Your set up, batteries and all is not exactly like JB's so some variation may work
better. The smaller cap charges and dumps fast than the bigger ones.

If we take away every thing except the coils and cap, dont we have an LC
cicuit. Should we take the time to match these with the freq. of the magnets
passing over the coils??? Just A thought.

I spent a couple hours to day, on a bread board, playing with different things.
Nothing to say but I will try this posting of Vissie's. I will have to see if I have any
FET drivers. Will any thing else work if I dont have one handy?
Mark

Mark,

Here is a video of the setup I was referring to last night. The hall doesn't start over the timing magnet so it doesn't self start, but we get a really good charge rate. The wheel runs slower at about 15 RPM's and it draws on the primaries about half an amp more. The difference between what you see in this video and last night, is that, in this video we have a 15V zener for the cap dump circuit and last night we were using a 5.1V zener, so last night it was charging and dumping as fast as the SCR was allowing it.

Thanks,
Scott

EDIT: I made another quick video after I made so minor adjustments to show how it relates to speed and charging. I don't mention it in the video, but I also switched the 15V zener back to the 5.1V for the cap dump. Timing setup #2

[txaggie00]

What is the result?

Brent and Scott,
Getting a taste of how much it takes to get it just right. I would try some different
size caps as well. I can speed up or slow it down using a larger or smaller cap.
Your set up, batteries and all is not exactly like JB's so some variation may work
better. The smaller cap charges and dumps fast than the bigger ones.

Mark,
We can certainly try that as well. Here is my question... How do we know what is "just right"? At first, we thought it was getting it to self-start where it goes backwards and then slams into the field and reverses, but we have been able to do that with several variations of different coil locations and timing wheel settings. Each has different charging rates and amp draw. So we are a little confused as to what specific goal we are trying to achieve. Brent remembers a post where JB mentions his current draw from the primaries was about 1.5 amps (We will look for that post to confirm). Should we try to match that while getting a charge rate of 3 dumps per second at 20 RPMs?

Thanks,
Scott

By the way, we put a 330 uF, 450V cap and turned the wheel on to see if we could see how big the spike was. Something sparked (we're not quite sure where it came from, but I think it was one of the neons from the 93's) and by the time I looked at the meter from the cap, the voltage was at 150. This happened literally right after we turned the switch on. I'm not even sure if the wheel even had a chance to switch direction. We tried to manually spin it but the voltage just slowly rose. Not sure, but we might have ended up sacrificing a tranny anyway. We'll check them out tomorrow.


EDIT:: Brent found the quote from JB: Page 13, post 366

So I will state it again, what it was, 36v 1.8 amps input. output batteries charged to the pin, limit on 2.8 amps float 36 volts. I could have swapped the batteries anytime I wanted to or just plugged an inverter in and sucked off all the power and sent it back to the primary but I ran out of time building the machine I almost did not finish it.

[Rl2003]

Scott,
Good question, what is just right? I am looking for charging Sec. while back
charging the primary's. This is my goal, for now. I have a lot of ideas for expanding
on these principles once I know all the fine details. This is like developing a single
cylinder motor, but later it will be eight cylinders. I think there is a lot to learn from
this, and this is just the start. I would not dwell to much on the self start... It is cool
but uses a lot of energy to get it up to speed. Remember JB had a extra 10 coils
on his set-up at the conference, no telling how that helped.
I think JB had his at about 1 amp draw. For now I just hand start mine and play
with the timing. I have it set for the lowest amp draw as well, but I have to give up
some charging. The larger core and coils will make a big difference, mine are a lot smaller.
I am also letting the RPM's stay up because I am outfitting it with a load. Possibly
a small generator. That will bring the speed down

Check the SCR first before all the trannies, that has been what goes every time
I short anything.
Hope this helps. It's late and calling it a day.
Mark

[Web000x]

Mark,
By the way, we put a 330 uF, 450V cap and turned the wheel on to see if we could see how big the spike was. Something sparked (we're not quite sure where it came from, but I think it was one of the neons from the 93's) and by the time I looked at the meter from the cap, the voltage was at 150. This happened literally right after we turned the switch on. I'm not even sure if the wheel even had a chance to switch direction. We tried to manually spin it but the voltage just slowly rose. Not sure, but we might have ended up sacrificing a tranny anyway. We'll check them out tomorrow.

I wasn't sure about using a small cap with your coil to see the spike. I'll bet that the transistors are gone if a neon blew.

The best way for you to see your spike indirectly is to compare charging of your capacitor compared to magnet pulses: (.5*Farads*Voltage^2 )=(Cap Joules) Just see how much charge you can get off of one magnet pulse and compare to other magnetic/timing configurations.

Dave

[BrentA929]

Tank circuit?

Mark,

You bring up a good point...

I have been kicking around the idea of resonant frequency for a while and there have been many discussions recently in some of the Bedini Monopole groups. I think the idea of a tank circuit in resonance is definitely something to explore. I would be interested in the thoughts of others and also the process of going about determining how to do it!

If we take away every thing except the coils and cap, dont we have an LC
cicuit. Should we take the time to match these with the freq. of the magnets
passing over the coils??? Just A thought.

Mark

Here is the other thing...

John's numbers don't make any sense to me. If you calculate the frequency at:

16.5 RPM x 16 magnets / 60 seconds you get = 4.4 Hz

or

18 RPM x 16 magnets / 60 seconds you get = 4.8 Hz


If my calculations are correct, then how did he get 6.85Hz to 7.1Hz respectfully? Any ideas? Forgive me if I am way off here!

The machine was set to emit between 6.85Hz to 7.1Hz The rpm of the machine was between 16.5 to 18 RPM's depending on the solar radiation at the time. You could not possibility learn enough about this machine unless you build one that big.

JB

Thanks, Brent

[RS_]

Brent,

To make a RLC Tank on the Charging side, add a Inductor between the Mosfet and the charging battery, that the Mosfet has to fire through to charge the battery... Once the correct Capture Cap / Inductor / Battery combination is found, the charging should increase substantially because of the increased ringing in the battery......

you could also add a same size inductor to the pos side between the Charging battery and the capture cap, so that smaller inductors can be used and still get the RLC Tank to ring

RS

[Web000x]

Mark,

You bring up a good point...

I have been kicking around the idea of resonant frequency for a while and there have been many discussions recently in some of the Bedini Monopole groups. I think the idea of a tank circuit in resonance is definitely something to explore. I would be interested in the thoughts of others and also the process of going about determining how to do it!




Here is the other thing...

John's numbers don't make any sense to me. If you calculate the frequency at:

16.5 RPM x 16 magnets / 60 seconds you get = 4.4 Hz

or

18 RPM x 16 magnets / 60 seconds you get = 4.8 Hz


If my calculations are correct, then how did he get 6.85Hz to 7.1Hz respectfully? Any ideas? Forgive me if I am way off here!





Thanks, Brent

If John was using a resonant LC circuit tuned to the magnet pulses @ 16RPM, his total inductance would need to be .087H for use with the 16000uF cap. That would give 4.3 Hz for the LC oscillations.

You would really need to know the inductance of all of your coils in parallel before you could calculate which capacitor value to use. You can find a pretty cheap LC meter on the net.

As far a John Bedini's numbers go, I have also been slightly confused by them as well. There is only one way that I see that his numbers could be correct and my idea is questionable at that.

He said that his machine was set up to emit between 6.85Hz and 7.1Hz. Right now, we see that the frequency is between 4.4Hz and 4.8Hz. It is hard to believe that his cap dump was exactly three times a second. Maybe it was more like 2.5 times a second. Capacitor dumps create lines of force just like inductors. Since the magnet pulses are out of phase with the cap dump, these frequencies might add to give 6.9Hz(2.5Hz+4.4Hz).

It is a long shot, but worth consideration at the moment.

Also, who wants to be even further confused????

What are your thoughts on this post: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post118920?

I could have sworn that John was dumping at twice the battery voltage.

Dave

[BrentA929]

I feel ya!

Dave,

I'm glad I'm not the only one that is confused by all the numbers that JB throws out...

He stated that his inductance was 1.126H. Not sure if that provides any clarity or adds to the confusion!

Sure wish JB returns soon to help clear up some things!


Brent


*Double the battery voltage or 42.5V - we have often wondered ourselves!

If John was using a resonant LC circuit tuned to the magnet pulses @ 16RPM, his total inductance would need to be .087H for use with the 16000uF cap. That would give 4.3 Hz for the LC oscillations.

You would really need to know the inductance of all of your coils in parallel before you could calculate which capacitor value to use. You can find a pretty cheap LC meter on the net.

As far a John Bedini's numbers go, I have also been slightly confused by them as well. There is only one way that I see that his numbers could be correct and my idea is questionable at that.

He said that his machine was set up to emit between 6.85Hz and 7.1Hz. Right now, we see that the frequency is between 4.4Hz and 4.8Hz. It is hard to believe that his cap dump was exactly three times a second. Maybe it was more like 2.5 times a second. Capacitor dumps create lines of force just like inductors. Since the magnet pulses are out of phase with the cap dump, these frequencies might add to give 6.9Hz(2.5Hz+4.4Hz).

It is a long shot, but worth consideration at the moment.

Also, who wants to be even further confused????

What are your thoughts on this post: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post118920?

I could have sworn that John was dumping at twice the battery voltage.

Dave

[Web000x]

Dave,

I'm glad I'm not the only one that is confused by all the numbers that JB throws out...

He stated that his inductance was 1.126H. Not sure if that provides any clarity or adds to the confusion!

Sure wish JB returns soon to help clear up some things!


Brent


*Double the battery voltage or 42.5V - we have often wondered ourselves!

Thanks for that direction to JB's post about his coil. I've been looking for that one for a couple of days. I thought that I was crazy when I couldn't find that one back through the thread pages.

I think that you should go with 42.5V cap dumps as it seems to be what JB is doing with his machine. I just watched the EFTV 22 and John says that the cap dump circuit is dumping 14 J @ 3Hz.

Using (.5*C*V^2=Energy in Joules), .5*.016*42.5^2 = 14.45 Joules. This seems to be the reality of what his machine was running at.

I wonder why he also says twice the battery voltage??

I really hope JB finds time to stop in the thread for a minute.

Dave

[BrentA929]

Something to ponder...

Dave,

Thanks for that calculation!

Something else to ponder along the resonating lines of thought. In the FEG book page 9 second to last paragraph, Tom Bearden states, "So all you experimenters and pioneers, now's your chance. Have at it. Build it. Tinker with it. Fiddle it into resonant operation."

Sorry if this is off topic! Just looking for clues!


Thanks, Brent

Thanks for that direction to JB's post about his coil. I've been looking for that one for a couple of days. I thought that I was crazy when I couldn't find that one back through the thread pages.

I think that you should go with 42.5V cap dumps as it seems to be what JB is doing with his machine. I just watched the EFTV 22 and John says that the cap dump circuit is dumping 14 J @ 3Hz.

Using (.5*C*V^2=Energy in Joules), .5*.016*42.5^2 = 14.45 Joules. This seems to be the reality of what his machine was running at.

I wonder why he also says twice the battery voltage??

I really hope JB finds time to stop in the thread for a minute.

Dave

[Web000x]

Dave,

Thanks for that calculation!

Something else to ponder along the resonating lines of thought. In the FEG book page 9 second to last paragraph, Tom Bearden states, "So all you experimenters and pioneers, now's your chance. Have at it. Build it. Tinker with it. Fiddle it into resonant operation."

Sorry if this is off topic! Just looking for clues!


Thanks, Brent

I think Tom Bearden is talking about a complex resonance of sorts. I am not sure that it can be calculated with a simple F=1/(2*pi*sqrt(L*C)).

Unless you have a bunch of high tech equipment, this complex resonance is going to be hard to tune. The best way to figure this out from your end is to just change something and let it run for a while to see if the battery charging increases or even cold boils.

Good Luck,

Dave

[mbonheur]

Mark,

By the way, we put a 330 uF, 450V cap and turned the wheel on to see if we could see how big the spike was. Something sparked (we're not quite sure where it came from, but I think it was one of the neons from the 93's) and by the time I looked at the meter from the cap, the voltage was at 150. This happened literally right after we turned the switch on. I'm not even sure if the wheel even had a chance to switch direction. We tried to manually spin it but the voltage just slowly rose. Not sure, but we might have ended up sacrificing a tranny anyway. We'll check them out tomorrow.


EDIT:: Brent found the quote from JB: Page 13, post 366

I have a monopole that has 12 transistors working in parallel. Once, I had a big flash of Neons and blew many transistors at ounce. To get a hint of which transistor is short, connect a probe to the Emitters's main connection and measure resistance between that and each collectors. You'll get the measurement of two coil windings if transistor is ok. You'll get a real short if transistor is dead. This gives a hint. Remove defective transistors until no more short.

Pat