Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[mbonheur]

Thanks for that direction to JB's post about his coil. I've been looking for that one for a couple of days. I thought that I was crazy when I couldn't find that one back through the thread pages.

I think that you should go with 42.5V cap dumps as it seems to be what JB is doing with his machine. I just watched the EFTV 22 and John says that the cap dump circuit is dumping 14 J @ 3Hz.

Using (.5*C*V^2=Energy in Joules), .5*.016*42.5^2 = 14.45 Joules. This seems to be the reality of what his machine was running at.

I wonder why he also says twice the battery voltage??

I really hope JB finds time to stop in the thread for a minute.

Dave

When calculating the energy discharged, we must do the difference between final state and original state:
-Capacitor discharges 15 000uF at 31V
Initial energy: 0,5 X 15000uF X 31^2
-Capacitor ends discharging at 20V
Final energy: 0,5 X 15000uF X 20^2

Total energy in discharge would be (Initial Energy - Final Energy)

So far, I prefer testing things out and appreciate the real results than checking calculations.

Pat

[Rl2003]

I found this paper on mosfet drivers and there is a block diagram of it on page 17
figure 2.1. I dont know if this helps to see what needs to be made. I tried a few
more ideas today but still not working the way it should.

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/ava...cted/final.pdf

Also here is a video I just made to show the ring after the cap dump.
I am not sure if it is ringing to the battery or the coils?? But never the less it is
interesting. I am showing that slowing the rotor down has very little efect on the ring
pattern. So, does this meen that the number of times the magnets pass the coils
is not relevant, in this case. Or is it the battery/cap and coils??

YouTube - GT3 scope shot

Till next time.
Mark

Dave,

Thanks for that calculation!

Something else to ponder along the resonating lines of thought. In the FEG book page 9 second to last paragraph, Tom Bearden states, "So all you experimenters and pioneers, now's your chance. Have at it. Build it. Tinker with it. Fiddle it into resonant operation."

Sorry if this is off topic! Just looking for clues!


Thanks, Brent

[Web000x]

When calculating the energy discharged, we must do the difference between final state and original state:
-Capacitor discharges 15 000uF at 31V
Initial energy: 0,5 X 15000uF X 31^2
-Capacitor ends discharging at 20V
Final energy: 0,5 X 15000uF X 20^2

Total energy in discharge would be (Initial Energy - Final Energy)

So far, I prefer testing things out and appreciate the real results than checking calculations.

Pat

Yeah, I would have taken into account the difference in the initial and final energy values if I were engineering something, but I am just trying to figure out what John Bedini is actually doing with his machine.

He says in this thread that the batteries should be pulsed at twice the battery voltage which would be 72V. That would be (initial cap energy) - (final cap energy) = (.5*.016*72^2) - (.5*.016*36^2) = 41 J - 10 J = 31 Joules.

That is way more than the 14 Joules that hes states multiple times in the EFTV 22 DVD and on this thread. That is why I was pointing to the energy contained in a 16000uF cap @ 42V. It is the closest figure to what JB has been stating amongst a lot of ambiguity.

Cap dumps at 42 Volts also present a feasibility of dumping a 16000uF capacitor at 3 times per second.

I had really been wondering how the machine could dump the cap so fast at such high energy since JB has been telling us that you cannot see the COP of the machine with conventional meters. If JB was dumping his cap at twice the battery voltage, the machine would have an electrical efficiency of over-unity, but JB has always been saying that the over-unity/COP>1 turns up in the batteries thru the enhanced capacity of the batteries not measurable quantities of Joules in the output/input.

@Brent and Scott,

I think that you should try dumping you cap at 42.5 volts, and see if the machine doesn't start to adhere to what JB has been showing as far as pulsing the batteries at 3 times per second.

Dave

[Les_K]

Considerations

Just got caught up a bit with the posts. Very interesting what I have been reading, it is really helpful.

Scott, two things that may help in your work,
- I started charging the batteries that I got at walmart. Those tractor (U7?) batteries that are about $20.00 They absorb the cap dump very rapidly. my little 7ah batteries I have like you are using, seem to absorb the energy from cap much more slowly. this makes sense as a car battery/Tractor can discharge/Charge at a very rapid rate as compared to deep cycle. might be worth a try on your system(remember John was using car batteries and those were a minimum). The other batteries that you can see on my youtube of my machine are some larger motorcycle batteries but they are rated in Amp Hours. And they don't absorb the cap pulse as quickly. even though they are a much heftier battery. I think they are 20ah c20.

The second thing I have noticed is that by adding some small neos on the back of the ceramics on top of the other neos I see that my charge rate seems to go up, and amps go up but RPM seems to come down. I haven't got my scope running again after my computer fritzed but I should be able to get some real numbers soon. Have you considered playing with the neos on the back of your ceramics? I didn't want to get my coils to far away because I want to get the interferometry correct. this seemed to work.
and on start up the recoil/kick became quite pronounced.

I am not sure I am happy with the super south poles though as there is very little adjustment. I am still playing with it.

anyway just an update.

Thanks
Les

[txaggie00]

@Brent and Scott,

I think that you should try dumping you cap at 42.5 volts, and see if the machine doesn't start to adhere to what JB has been showing as far as pulsing the batteries at 3 times per second.

Dave,
We have been using the 5.1V zener for most of the latter part of testing, which I think put us at ~48V for the 36V setup and about 32V for the 20V setup. I think our main focus is going to be getting some better batteries. We may try the batteries that Les just suggested. We will have to run through all the setup tests again when we get those, so we will definitely try to match the 42.5V for the cap dump when we do.

Scott, two things that may help in your work,
- I started charging the batteries that I got at walmart. Those tractor (U7?) batteries that are about $20.00 They absorb the cap dump very rapidly. my little 7ah batteries I have like you are using, seem to absorb the energy from cap much more slowly. this makes sense as a car battery/Tractor can discharge/Charge at a very rapid rate as compared to deep cycle. might be worth a try on your system(remember John was using car batteries and those were a minimum). The other batteries that you can see on my youtube of my machine are some larger motorcycle batteries but they are rated in Amp Hours. And they don't absorb the cap pulse as quickly. even though they are a much heftier battery. I think they are 20ah c20.

The second thing I have noticed is that by adding some small neos on the back of the ceramics on top of the other neos I see that my charge rate seems to go up, and amps go up but RPM seems to come down. I haven't got my scope running again after my computer fritzed but I should be able to get some real numbers soon. Have you considered playing with the neos on the back of your ceramics? I didn't want to get my coils to far away because I want to get the interferometry correct. this seemed to work.
and on start up the recoil/kick became quite pronounced.

Les,
I feel like we are chasing our tails with those little SLA's. We know we're not going to get close to JB's results with those. We got better results with the big 8V golf cart battery, but we still needed to put a 12V SLA in series with both the charging and primaries just to get the machine to run. The batteries are the biggest issue that is delaying us right now to move forward with this build so we are definitely going to invest in some. It has still been beneficial for us though. I think we have learned a lot about the machine and how it operates with various setups. We may try some small ceramics to see if we get any added benefit with those as well. We still get a pretty good kick even with the increased gap depending on where the hall is. Those coils are pretty serious and you can certainly hear them when you turn the machine on.

Thank you guys again for your posts and all your help!
Scott

@Mark, by the way, thank you for the video! Very interesting!

[txaggie00]

Update on "Junior"

Hey everyone!

Just wanted to post a quick update. We finally got the last piece of the puzzle! We picked up our batteries this week. We ran it for a bit today and what an amazing difference it made! It was definitely dumping at least 3 times per second. Both banks started at 37.6 volts. After running it for 30 minutes, the primaries never ran down. The meter at one point showed 37.8V! The charging batteries got up to 40V while dumping. I am going to check the resting voltage of both banks in the morning and then run some tests similar to what Mark did. We tweeked the timing and the wheel is running at about 18 RPM's. The neons for the 93's were flashing, but the neons for the 94's weren't. We will probably put our matched transistors in tomorrow (6 of each) and try to get a video to show everyone.

We were thinking about discharging the charging batteries down to 12V per battery using a 12V - 12W lamp for an hour each (approximate c20 rate) and see how many charge/discharge cycles we can get out of them until our primaries get to 36V. Our short run today made it appear that the current setup is back-popping the primaries pretty good, so it should be an interesting test and hopefully take a long time.

How is everyone else's builds coming along? It has been pretty quiet in this thread.

Thanks,
Scott

[John_K]

Hey Scott,

That's great news! What sort of batteries did you get?

I'm still finishing up the TS with Bit's and then I'll get back to the BFW. Wait until the conference for a jaw-dropping TS! this is going to blow people away. And yes, you'll be able to run loads (such as the BFW) off the TS as well as keep the batteries charged. Bit's and I will start posting some teaser videos soon. This is the one everybody has been waiting for!


John K.

Hey everyone!

Just wanted to post a quick update. We finally got the last piece of the puzzle! We picked up our batteries this week. We ran it for a bit today and what an amazing difference it made! It was definitely dumping at least 3 times per second. Both banks started at 37.6 volts. After running it for 30 minutes, the primaries never ran down. The meter at one point showed 37.8V! The charging batteries got up to 40V while dumping. I am going to check the resting voltage of both banks in the morning and then run some tests similar to what Mark did. We tweeked the timing and the wheel is running at about 18 RPM's. The neons for the 93's were flashing, but the neons for the 94's weren't. We will probably put our matched transistors in tomorrow (6 of each) and try to get a video to show everyone.

We were thinking about discharging the charging batteries down to 12V per battery using a 12V - 12W lamp for an hour each (approximate c20 rate) and see how many charge/discharge cycles we can get out of them until our primaries get to 36V. Our short run today made it appear that the current setup is back-popping the primaries pretty good, so it should be an interesting test and hopefully take a long time.

How is everyone else's builds coming along? It has been pretty quiet in this thread.

Thanks,
Scott

[txaggie00]

New Batteries!!!!!!!!

Hey Scott,

That's great news! What sort of batteries did you get?

I'm still finishing up the TS with Bit's and then I'll get back to the BFW. Wait until the conference for a jaw-dropping TS! this is going to blow people away. And yes, you'll be able to run loads (such as the BFW) off the TS as well as keep the batteries charged. Bit's and I will start posting some teaser videos soon. This is the one everybody has been waiting for!


John K.

Good to hear from you John! I was wondering how you and Bits were coming along with the TS. Sounds like you guys have it nailed down! If you need anyone to beta test a prototype, we'd be happy to throw it on Junior for you guys!

We just got some cheap midsized batteries. 500 CCA with a 60 minute reserve. We estimate about 25 AH. Certainly nothing that will run any real world loads, but we figure once we get the machine tuned for it and rejuvenate some of our funds, we can get some big 'ol deep cycle batteries with some hefty AH and see how they do with charge/discharge cycles.

We have a short video of the setup with the batteries. I ran some tests today and show the results of those. We didn't discharge them at all, but definitely had some overall voltage gain. Not sure how much of that is just floating voltage, but we are going to start the discharge cycles next week and see how long we can go before we have to swap the two banks.

Anyway, here is the video:
Bedini 3GT "Junior" - New Batteries

Thanks,
Scott

[Web000x]

Good Job!!

I'm glad to see that it is almost running up to JB's specs.

It could be possible that a lot of the excess energy in JB's setup was due to the axial regauging motor being used as a magneto. You probably have more than one to one charging but the true excess energy will probably come with the addition of a generator action of some sorts. (Just my speculation)

You seem to be losing a lot of potential across those neons. You might be able to add some ultrafast diodes and capture some more energy off of the coil collapse.

Can you check with a scope to see which polarity the voltage is that is lighting up the neons?

I'm intrigued. I've always seen most of the potential from my collapsing magnetic fields manifest towards the closest point of switch closure (transistor in this case). You could possibly have your transistors slightly out of sync. It seems that your PNP might be shutting off a little before the NPN. A simple adjusting of the bipolar switch resistor values should make a difference. Radio shack usually stocks some 1KOHM 15 turn pots that work perfectly for this circuit (it is what I am using for tuning).

Dave

[Rl2003]

Scott and Brent,
Your set up is looking very nice. I like the new batteries. That is one thing I
need to try soon.
I haven't had much time to fiddle with the GT3, I have a work related project
I need to get finished this next week, so my time has been rapped up with that.
I am close to feeding some energy back into the primarys and also I will connect
a small gen. to see how far we can push this.. as soon as my work project is done.

Dave,
What is your difference in Ohms from the NPN,s compaired to the PNP side??
Mark

Good Job!!

I'm intrigued. I've always seen most of the potential from my collapsing magnetic fields manifest towards the closest point of switch closure (transistor in this case). You could possibly have your transistors slightly out of sync. It seems that your PNP might be shutting off a little before the NPN. A simple adjusting of the bipolar switch resistor values should make a difference. Radio shack usually stocks some 1KOHM 15 turn pots that work perfectly for this circuit (it is what I am using for tuning).

Dave

[Web000x]

Dave,
What is your difference in Ohms from the NPN,s compaired to the PNP side??
Mark

I have yet to change the 470 ohm resistor that connects from the PNP base to the positive rail.

My resistor between the two transistor bases is set at 135 ohms right now. Any resistance above that with my setup seems to be less than a perfect square wave as per JB.

I also have a 1K Pot in place of the 470 ohm resistor going from NPN base to negative. It is set at about 440 ohms. This seems to have less of an effect compared to the base connecting resistor.

+
470 ohm
to
PNP base
to
135 ohm
to
NPN base
to
440 ohm
-

Dave

[txaggie00]

Good Job!!

I'm glad to see that it is almost running up to JB's specs.

It could be possible that a lot of the excess energy in JB's setup was due to the axial regauging motor being used as a magneto. You probably have more than one to one charging but the true excess energy will probably come with the addition of a generator action of some sorts. (Just my speculation)

You seem to be losing a lot of potential across those neons. You might be able to add some ultrafast diodes and capture some more energy off of the coil collapse.

Can you check with a scope to see which polarity the voltage is that is lighting up the neons?

I'm intrigued. I've always seen most of the potential from my collapsing magnetic fields manifest towards the closest point of switch closure (transistor in this case). You could possibly have your transistors slightly out of sync. It seems that your PNP might be shutting off a little before the NPN. A simple adjusting of the bipolar switch resistor values should make a difference. Radio shack usually stocks some 1KOHM 15 turn pots that work perfectly for this circuit (it is what I am using for tuning).

Dave

Dave, thanks for the post! What you are saying makes perfect sense, although we hadn't even thought of that. We need to make a few more adjustments to the coils and put the matched transistors in still, so while we are fiddling with the board, we will put some pots in as you suggest. We had the scope on it the first time we tried it with the new batteries and to be honest with you, I hadn't seen a scope shot like that, so we knew something was out of whack.

EDIT: If you want, we can get a video of the scope shot for you. Maybe you can make heads and tails out of it.

Thank you!

Scott and Brent,
Your set up is looking very nice. I like the new batteries. That is one thing I
need to try soon.
I haven't had much time to fiddle with the GT3, I have a work related project
I need to get finished this next week, so my time has been rapped up with that.
I am close to feeding some energy back into the primarys and also I will connect
a small gen. to see how far we can push this.. as soon as my work project is done.

Hey Mark! Thanks! Yeah it is night and day with those new batteries. I am really eager to put a load on those things so we can really see how quick we can bring them back up. We know exactly how you feel about work cutting into some prime Bedini time. The wheel is actually at our office (hindsight... maybe not the best idea) and has successfully distracted us more than enough. We have quite a bit of work to catch up on as well, so it seems like a perfect time to just run some tests throughout the week.

Completing (or even starting for that matter) the regauging motor/generator before the July conference just isn't going to happen, so we can spend quite a bit of time just putting this machine through it's paces and just really try to understand it as much as we can. From what we understand, the circuitry for the regauging motor and the BFW will be revealed in July, so at least we'll have a good starting point when we get to that project which is ultimately our goal. We will also have a pretty good idea of what we need to look for to get some more clarity on how it is setup.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling. It's good to hear from ya'll. It was getting pretty quiet in here.

@Les, Ron and Erik:
How are you guys coming along?

Take care,
Scott

[Les_K]

Hi Guys,
Nice work, great vid, the batts look great! I am trying to rejuv some panasonic deep cycle batts 28AH but it is going slow at the momnet, and while waiting I fell into my usual trap of thinking to much about it. In this case I was thinking about how the coils were working. I started re-reading all my notes, over the last few years about the SSG etc.
and EFTV. It is funny everytime I think I know something about this stuff, all I really just uncover is my ignorance...

In my reading I realized for the first time there must be some real impoartance to the neutrals around the wheel. You know the magnetic fields john has posted showing the scalar souths etc. but the neutrals are what hit me. I began to wonder if there is a controlled time delay in the way the cores discharge between the north poles and the sclar south poles.
At that moment when the magnet has just moved away is the core held momentarily by the cole switch, then released to generate a timing event in relation to the radiant spike? If so I definitly have some new things to think about. This came from a post way back between sllyod, Luther, and JB. in my notes. Anyway For me it became homework time.
But as I was thinking about your neons it also made me think that a better understanding of this might explain why they are lighting when they shouldn't. there is a cap on it to collect it! They can't not dump to it! unless something is happening in the core along these lines.

I ran my machine for about 24 hrs on my motercycle batteries (they are 20AH deep cycle)
until about 12.05 volts. I was hoping it would make the snow go away so I could work in the big shop again.....oh well...!

Les

[Web000x]

EDIT: If you want, we can get a video of the scope shot for you. Maybe you can make heads and tails out of it.

Sure,

I'll compare it to my own and see which way you might possibly want to adjust those resistor values.

Dave

[RAMSET]

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