Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[John_K]

John K,

Ok I had a small problem I was able to fix. It's funny we didn't catch it earlier.
The two outside coils should create a south when the Center creates a north. I reversed the wires on the outside coils and the charging has improved quite a bit. I am probably at about an 80% to 90% efficient machine. So there is still some work to do. I am pretty sure a lot of those losses are in my comparator circuit.

As concerning the what happens when we switch off I ran into this video
Magnetic Monopole - YouTube

As I think about the outer coils being south and the center north, as well as why you wanted to get into what happens when the SSG switches off, I am beginning to see something new about the streams and how they are being separated. I think this relates to the videos at coral castle JB posted as well. What do you think?

Les

Les,

Where did you read that the 2 outside coils should be a south and not a north?
I must have missed that one

Sorry I have a problem watching YouTube ATM.


John K

[Les_K]

Mmmm,

John k,
This was in my original notes on the machine construction.

I have four statements under the slave coils.
1 - "Slave coils 1/2 the impedance of the center coil"
2 - "Pulsed with south for attraction" (This circled in my notes usually means not JB)
3 - "Repulsion mode for whole machine" - This had a note saying Definitely JB
4 - "Weak south"

Maybe I interpreted that incorrectly?
I'll go change it back.
Once again...Thanks

Les

[Ron Chase]

[QUOTE=minoly;185250]Ron,
Thanks for uploading that schematic. That's a nice compilation of the ckt and dump!


@ Patrick
@ Brent

I've been running my wheel with the Crydom SSR I mentioned earlier and it tends to run hot. Since it doesn't lend itself to heat sinking I think its better for small wheel 12V systems. I'm switching to a Magnecraft SSR, Mouser part# 528-6312AXXMDS-DC3 for my 5 foot wheel and it can be easily heatsinked. I definitely need it since I'm charging larger capacity batteries now.

Ron

[BrentA929]

Gt3

Ron,

I have yet to try your circuit, but thanks for the update!

I can tell you that I have tried the Douglas Randall K12A and it does NOT work. The breakdown voltage is around 100V. I have yet to try the HFS33 solid state relay. Is the breakdown voltage even listed for those? Also, if we are looking for the capacitor to fill up to 48V and the batteries are sitting at 36V, do we need a breakdown of 12V?


Thanks, Brent

@ Brent

I've been running my wheel with the Crydom SSR I mentioned earlier and it tends to run hot. Since it doesn't lend itself to heat sinking I think its better for small wheel 12V systems. I'm switching to a Magnecraft SSR, Mouser part# 528-6312AXXMDS-DC3 for my 5 foot wheel and it can be easily heatsinked. I definitely need it since I'm charging larger capacity batteries now.

Ron

[John_Bedini]

what is charging that battery

Les,

Where did you read that the 2 outside coils should be a south and not a north?
I must have missed that one

Sorry I have a problem watching YouTube ATM.


John K

That is what I have been saying all along, and that is how it works. now push two norths together, what happends. what is charging that battery?
John B

[Ron Chase]

Ron,

I have yet to try your circuit, but thanks for the update!

I can tell you that I have tried the Douglas Randall K12A and it does NOT work. The breakdown voltage is around 100V. I have yet to try the HFS33 solid state relay. Is the breakdown voltage even listed for those? Also, if we are looking for the capacitor to fill up to 48V and the batteries are sitting at 36V, do we need a breakdown of 12V?


Thanks, Brent

Brent,

I think the SSR inside the box in JB's video is a Douglas Randall K08A with a FET switch and probably rated for a load voltage around 40-50V. The FET breakdown voltage is not listed on spec. sheets just the load voltage and current carrying capacity. When that voltage is exceeded (from current flow) the FET inside begins to breakdown and dump the cap so that is probably around 48V. I wouldn't worry about trying to dump at 48V why not go for 72V for maximum charging. JB reiterated several posts back that the ideal is to dump at around twice the battery voltage but it seems his machine with that particular SSR dumped at 48V.

If you want to use just a SSR like JB did try a load voltage around 50V rather than the 100V. I prefer to switch the SSR from the low voltage side as JB mentioned.

I'll have two more dump circuits to share soon.

Ron

[John_K]

What's charging the battery?

That is what I have been saying all along, and that is how it works. now push two norths together, what happends. what is charging that battery?
John B

John B,

I don't get it. Are you saying that the slave coils on the Ferris wheel when energized are a south pole facing the rotor?

When you push two norths together the scalar south between the rotor magnets is 4 times bigger. It's the scalar south that charges the battery.


John K.

[Les_K]

John B,

I don't get it. Are you saying that the slave coils on the Ferris wheel when energized are a south pole facing the rotor?

When you push two norths together the scalar south between the rotor magnets is 4 times bigger. It's the scalar south that charges the battery.


John K.

John B. John K.
I keep thinking of some things I learned from Jim Murry's experiments where he said...

"...Pushed the lines of flux ahead of it so that they collected in a bunch and behaved like stretched rubber bands."

"...lines of flux that were most stretched would snap back..."

"...That the lines of flux that were snapping across the boundary ...... would of necessity, travel with a greater velocity..."

So are we trying to stretch the flux out and let it snap back and collect on the snap?

This machine is just so complex, It is really hard to pinpoint some of this. Since the coils are in parallel, as I understand it there is also a time differential between the coils as well a physical differential by placement of the coils themselves. But we turn off the power just at the moment the scalar south is rebounding. So as far as I can see the scalar south is what reverses the polarity of the coil. It is also slightly unstable due to the neo on the back of the ceramic.

Now it gets even harder to understand as I think about what is happening at the point when the coils are energized then it is like two north magnets squished together making a super pole north going right into the area between the coils where the scalar south would be. I would think that would be closing up the loop at that moment. I think this would mean there is not a scalar south momentarily. But as the rotor would give way the super north pole would shift it's path and remembering that the coil stays on until half way between the physical magnets it would be dragging the south around with it during that time? Or maybe I am just out in scalar left field.....!

Another thing that puzzles me is that almost nothing of this seems to show up on the scope.

so, Just to confirm; all coils when energized are north facing poles?

Les

[John_K]

John B. John K.
I keep thinking of some things I learned from Jim Murry's experiments where he said...

"...Pushed the lines of flux ahead of it so that they collected in a bunch and behaved like stretched rubber bands."

"...lines of flux that were most stretched would snap back..."

"...That the lines of flux that were snapping across the boundary ...... would of necessity, travel with a greater velocity..."

So are we trying to stretch the flux out and let it snap back and collect on the snap?

This machine is just so complex, It is really hard to pinpoint some of this. Since the coils are in parallel, as I understand it there is also a time differential between the coils as well a physical differential by placement of the coils themselves. But we turn off the power just at the moment the scalar south is rebounding. So as far as I can see the scalar south is what reverses the polarity of the coil. It is also slightly unstable due to the neo on the back of the ceramic.

Now it gets even harder to understand as I think about what is happening at the point when the coils are energized then it is like two north magnets squished together making a super pole north going right into the area between the coils where the scalar south would be. I would think that would be closing up the loop at that moment. I think this would mean there is not a scalar south momentarily. But as the rotor would give way the super north pole would shift it's path and remembering that the coil stays on until half way between the physical magnets it would be dragging the south around with it during that time? Or maybe I am just out in scalar left field.....!

Another thing that puzzles me is that almost nothing of this seems to show up on the scope.

so, Just to confirm; all coils when energized are north facing poles?

Les

Les,

The way I see it now, the machine is not that complex. There are similarities with the Monopole SSG (aside from the re-gauging hub motor).

The main differences are that JB is shaping the magnetic fields in several different areas to create a non-linear system far from equilibrium.

The neo magnets on the back of the ceramics creates an assymetrical magnetic field around the rotor magnets - the way I see it, the main purpose is to enhance the scalar south. As the north pole on the rotor is not used to trigger the circuit we don't need it to be as strong, therefore we can get away with a less intense north and a more intense south, effectively enhancing the scalar south without having to use super north poles.

The metal shield on the bottom of the master coil is also used to shape the magnetic fields of the coil, when the coil is charged the electromagnetic south at the bottom of the coil is spread and formed over a wider area and when the coil is discharged the electromagnetic north at the bottom of the coil is also spread and formed over a wider are - effectively warping the interaction with the scalar south.

The master and slave coils also have their fields shaped further by extending the cores below the level of the coils, which alters the position of the Bloch wall. Again, to throw the system furtehr out of equilibrium.

Then there is the off-set poitioning of the slave coil. This has a two-fold effect. Firstly, by negatively pre-biasing the master coil (like a mag amp) so that the coil is already non-linear when the transistors turn the coil on. Secondly, when the coils discharge there is a further interaction from the passing rotor magnet which opposes the flipping of the poles - again non-linear.

The main point is that you must picture the magnetic fields of the rotor magnets and the coils WHEN the coils discharge, whilst focussing in the part the scalar south plays in the equation - for it is the scalar south that is "sucking" the energy out of the coils, which is then collected in the capacitor and dumped to the charge battery.

So it it fair to say that JB states it is the scalar south that is charging the battery.

Make sense?


John K.

[erfinder]

Les,

The way I see it now, the machine is not that complex. There are similarities with the Monopole SSG (aside from the re-gauging hub motor).

The main differences are that JB is shaping the magnetic fields in several different areas to create a non-linear system far from equilibrium.

The neo magnets on the back of the ceramics creates an assymetrical magnetic field around the rotor magnets - the way I see it, the main purpose is to enhance the scalar south. As the north pole on the rotor is not used to trigger the circuit we don't need it to be as strong, therefore we can get away with a less intense north and a more intense south, effectively enhancing the scalar south without having to use super north poles.

The metal shield on the bottom of the master coil is also used to shape the magnetic fields of the coil, when the coil is charged the electromagnetic south at the bottom of the coil is spread and formed over a wider area and when the coil is discharged the electromagnetic north at the bottom of the coil is also spread and formed over a wider are - effectively warping the interaction with the scalar south.

The master and slave coils also have their fields shaped further by extending the cores below the level of the coils, which alters the position of the Bloch wall. Again, to throw the system furtehr out of equilibrium.

Then there is the off-set poitioning of the slave coil. This has a two-fold effect. Firstly, by negatively pre-biasing the master coil (like a mag amp) so that the coil is already non-linear when the transistors turn the coil on. Secondly, when the coils discharge there is a further interaction from the passing rotor magnet which opposes the flipping of the poles - again non-linear.

The main point is that you must picture the magnetic fields of the rotor magnets and the coils WHEN the coils discharge, whilst focussing in the part the scalar south plays in the equation - for it is the scalar south that is "sucking" the energy out of the coils, which is then collected in the capacitor and dumped to the charge battery.

So it it fair to say that JB states it is the scalar south that is charging the battery.

Make sense?


John K.

Well stated, however, I don't see where you answered the question....

What is charging the battery....?

In my opinion its not enough to simply state that the "scalar south" is charging the battery.....Technically the scalar south isn't there....(one of those it is and isn't situations...) and to me....thats a serious issue....

What is a scalar south? How does a scalar south differ from a conventional south? What is a conventional south? Are we absolutely certain that the pole that we identify with as being the south pole is truly the south pole (the plot thickens...)? What is happening when we push two north poles together? I have read that the result of this action yields whats called a super pole.....super in what way? Lines of force aren't concentrating....are they? I find the opposite to be true....What relation does this action have to the remaining two poles....a portrait is being presented...can anyone see it? Are we being shown what a magnet really looks like, and or how to really see the magnets nature presents us with? (hard stretch of the imagination...)

In regards to the ferris wheel; specifically, the SG portion of the ferris wheel device...Why do the two outer poles have lower impedance than the inner pole....all coils in parallel...? Very very intersting...whats its being demonstrated here? Does anyone else see the parallel between the layout of the coils and the magnet layout that yields super poles? Whats the message? Is there a relationship between impedance and polarity?

I find it curious that all know that the coils are in parallel, and yet the coils are analyzed as if the were individual? What is the shape of the entire field that these coils collectively produce? I have a feeling that something amazing is being demonstrated and no one sees it.....myself included...

When we finally comprehend whats going on here, we will be paralyzed with the thoughts of its infinite applications, mesmerized by its simplicity, and hopeful as now we truly have an understanding that can take us far into the next century. Worlds within worlds.....just imagine how much would change if we simply took a second look at those things we call magnets....all is not what it seems to be....it seems....

It might sound like I have figured something out....but let me put your minds at ease..I haven't....but I will not stop till I have! This brings me back to the question which inspired this post...

What is charging the battery.....?


Regards

[Les_K]

John, you are right, it is not complicated at all...
All the correct principles apply from the SSG. I learned from our timing that capturing the scalar south as it were was the objective. Timing the bipolar to switch off at the moment of the scalar south opened a whole new world of thought about this machine I owe you a great debt of gratitude for that.

The difference between this and an SSG seems to be in the coils. The impedance is changed by way of the mag amp effects and Ron Cole's unique understanding of parallel inductors. So it looks like there is a time shift in the machine at this level where torsion fields are created developing the interferometry which then creates the upper portion of the triangle, I am guessing that nature is what creates the reverse triangle which drops below the center coil and which is captured and sent more slowly to the capacitor. My comparator circuit does not account for this. and that is where I have been having trouble. Well, that and I am using the wrong channel fets
I modified my circuit to handle higher voltage but the lower threshold to the comparator is all wrong. I am currently working on that and I have some fet's on the way. Rotating my machine (moving it to face east, north etc.) has differing effects in the surrounding environment, changes it's ability to collect energy, and sometimes sounds different, even at this level of operation. So I am going to suggest that the sun is what is fundamentally charging the battery.
I am also thinking that as the cap dumps, something is following the current and there is a lot more in that pulse than I know. I have been reviewing the thread to see if I can get a better grasp of all this but I still have a long way to go.

On my comparator circuit as I look at the dump, I see that I can look at voltage and set the comparator to switch off at some point above the battery voltage but something tells me I should be looking at current somehow. If we were using a sidactor it would be a drop in current flow that switches it off rather than that of voltage. I don't know it's late and maybe I am over thinking a bit....

Thanks John
Les

Les,

The way I see it now, the machine is not that complex. There are similarities with the Monopole SSG (aside from the re-gauging hub motor).

The main differences are that JB is shaping the magnetic fields in several different areas to create a non-linear system far from equilibrium.

The neo magnets on the back of the ceramics creates an assymetrical magnetic field around the rotor magnets - the way I see it, the main purpose is to enhance the scalar south. As the north pole on the rotor is not used to trigger the circuit we don't need it to be as strong, therefore we can get away with a less intense north and a more intense south, effectively enhancing the scalar south without having to use super north poles.

The metal shield on the bottom of the master coil is also used to shape the magnetic fields of the coil, when the coil is charged the electromagnetic south at the bottom of the coil is spread and formed over a wider area and when the coil is discharged the electromagnetic north at the bottom of the coil is also spread and formed over a wider are - effectively warping the interaction with the scalar south.

The master and slave coils also have their fields shaped further by extending the cores below the level of the coils, which alters the position of the Bloch wall. Again, to throw the system furtehr out of equilibrium.

Then there is the off-set poitioning of the slave coil. This has a two-fold effect. Firstly, by negatively pre-biasing the master coil (like a mag amp) so that the coil is already non-linear when the transistors turn the coil on. Secondly, when the coils discharge there is a further interaction from the passing rotor magnet which opposes the flipping of the poles - again non-linear.

The main point is that you must picture the magnetic fields of the rotor magnets and the coils WHEN the coils discharge, whilst focussing in the part the scalar south plays in the equation - for it is the scalar south that is "sucking" the energy out of the coils, which is then collected in the capacitor and dumped to the charge battery.

So it it fair to say that JB states it is the scalar south that is charging the battery.

Make sense?


John K.

[Les_K]

Well stated, however, I don't see where you answered the question....

What is charging the battery....?

In my opinion its not enough to simply state that the "scalar south" is charging the battery.....Technically the scalar south isn't there....(one of those it is and isn't situations...) and to me....thats a serious issue....

What is a scalar south? How does a scalar south differ from a conventional south? What is a conventional south? Are we absolutely certain that the pole that we identify with as being the south pole is truly the south pole (the plot thickens...)? What is happening when we push two north poles together? I have read that the result of this action yields whats called a super pole.....super in what way? Lines of force aren't concentrating....are they? I find the opposite to be true....What relation does this action have to the remaining two poles....a portrait is being presented...can anyone see it? Are we being shown what a magnet really looks like, and or how to really see the magnets nature presents us with? (hard stretch of the imagination...)

In regards to the ferris wheel; specifically, the SG portion of the ferris wheel device...Why do the two outer poles have lower impedance than the inner pole....all coils in parallel...? Very very intersting...whats its being demonstrated here? Does anyone else see the parallel between the layout of the coils and the magnet layout that yields super poles? Whats the message? Is there a relationship between impedance and polarity?

I find it curious that all know that the coils are in parallel, and yet the coils are analyzed as if the were individual? What is the shape of the entire field that these coils collectively produce? I have a feeling that something amazing is being demonstrated and no one sees it.....myself included...

When we finally comprehend whats going on here, we will be paralyzed with the thoughts of its infinite applications, mesmerized by its simplicity, and hopeful as now we truly have an understanding that can take us far into the next century. Worlds within worlds.....just imagine how much would change if we simply took a second look at those things we call magnets....all is not what it seems to be....it seems....

It might sound like I have figured something out....but let me put your minds at ease..I haven't....but I will not stop till I have! This brings me back to the question which inspired this post...

What is charging the battery.....?


Regards

Well erfinder, I have to say those are some thought provoking ideas.
Patent 5,487,057 might help
But I read an interesting article years ago about using this configuration to make food taste better and lots of other things. I tried to find that for you but it might be off the net now. maybe someone else might know about it.

Les

[Les_K]

Well stated, however, I don't see where you answered the question....

What is charging the battery....?

In my opinion its not enough to simply state that the "scalar south" is charging the battery.....Technically the scalar south isn't there....(one of those it is and isn't situations...) and to me....thats a serious issue....

What is a scalar south? How does a scalar south differ from a conventional south? What is a conventional south? Are we absolutely certain that the pole that we identify with as being the south pole is truly the south pole (the plot thickens...)? What is happening when we push two north poles together? I have read that the result of this action yields whats called a super pole.....super in what way? Lines of force aren't concentrating....are they? I find the opposite to be true....What relation does this action have to the remaining two poles....a portrait is being presented...can anyone see it? Are we being shown what a magnet really looks like, and or how to really see the magnets nature presents us with? (hard stretch of the imagination...)

In regards to the ferris wheel; specifically, the SG portion of the ferris wheel device...Why do the two outer poles have lower impedance than the inner pole....all coils in parallel...? Very very intersting...whats its being demonstrated here? Does anyone else see the parallel between the layout of the coils and the magnet layout that yields super poles? Whats the message? Is there a relationship between impedance and polarity?

I find it curious that all know that the coils are in parallel, and yet the coils are analyzed as if the were individual? What is the shape of the entire field that these coils collectively produce? I have a feeling that something amazing is being demonstrated and no one sees it.....myself included...

When we finally comprehend whats going on here, we will be paralyzed with the thoughts of its infinite applications, mesmerized by its simplicity, and hopeful as now we truly have an understanding that can take us far into the next century. Worlds within worlds.....just imagine how much would change if we simply took a second look at those things we call magnets....all is not what it seems to be....it seems....

It might sound like I have figured something out....but let me put your minds at ease..I haven't....but I will not stop till I have! This brings me back to the question which inspired this post...

What is charging the battery.....?


Regards

Well erfinder, I have to say those are some thought provoking ideas.
Patent 5,487,057 might help
But I read an interesting article years ago about using this configuration to make food taste better and lots of other things. I tried to find that for you but it might be off the net now. maybe someone else might know about it.

Les

[Ron Chase]

John, you are right, it is not complicated at all...


On my comparator circuit as I look at the dump, I see that I can look at voltage and set the comparator to switch off at some point above the battery voltage but something tells me I should be looking at current somehow. If we were using a sidactor it would be a drop in current flow that switches it off rather than that of voltage. I don't know it's late and maybe I am over thinking a bit....

Thanks John
Les

Hi Les,

This NE2 trigger circuit works great with a 36V system and its simple and definitely dumps current. I've tried several sidacs and they tend to stay on too long and cause problems but maybe someone will figure out how to use them.

I'm still interested in the shaft load and have been studying Ed L's 1945 publication and DadHav's video. Will keep you posted.

Ron

[Les_K]

Hi Les,

This NE2 trigger circuit works great with a 36V system and its simple and definitely dumps current. I've tried several sidacs and they tend to stay on too long and cause problems but maybe someone will figure out how to use them.

I'm still interested in the shaft load and have been studying Ed L's 1945 publication and DadHav's video. Will keep you posted.

Ron

Ok, thats what ya call simple! Good idea with the neon.

Yes, I have been reviewing the stuff on ED as well. The thing about Dadhav's little ssg is that it had an enclosed magnetic path with the bell housing around the stator the the mags were attached to. The way I see it right now is that I would like to take the motor function out of the SSG and keep the rest. That would make it the perfect generator for this. I have been playing with covering the coils with tin cans to see what that would do as well. ED said we are loosing half our magnets so we need to cover the coils. then you get all the magnets. DadHav showed he could get a spike but it was a bit anemic. The way I see it right now is that you would have to go with non-litzed SSG to make use of the mag-amp effect coming from the trigger winding and would also have to beef up the winding to generate a little power for the switch. the light bulb would need to be replaced with a proper inductor to phase shift the pulse a bit. I don't know but maybe that is a place to start.

Les