Collector Coils Alone (Bedini)

[kcarring]

I see a lot of debate as to whether Bedini style radiant energy offers any true merit.

I'm sitting here playing with my SSG, and looking at diagrams of enhanced circuits wherein additional coils are added, but not energized.

I've also seen videos on youtube of traces of coils putting off juice - while NOT energized.

So, I don't know much, I apologize, but...

I figure if you do a test to see if a bifilar coil can charge a battery, WITH NO CURRENT running through it, that made she some light.

What I mean is, not energized. Induced by magnets, sure.

If I'm not being clear, imagine a windturbine with an permanent magnet alternator wound bedini bifilar style. If the field collapses, and the spikes occur, will they charge the battery, and how effectively? If current isn't doing the work - take the current (supplied) away and let's see what happens.

[sucahyo]

You need current to charge battery. Even if we can detect voltage out of a coil, don't mean it can be used to charge a battery.

Samuel Faile can produce 7V from a self cancelling coil. But will it charge a battery?

The easiest, if you use alumunium and copper probe, you can measure about 0.4V on your skin. But will it charge a battery? Here is an example:
YouTube - Voltage of human skin

I think to charge a battery you need current. If you use electronic, you must power it, but if you use non electronic, you may need the one that produce effect even ordinary people can felt.

[kcarring]

You need current to charge battery. Even if we can detect voltage out of a coil, don't mean it can be used to charge a battery.

Samuel Faile can produce 7V from a self cancelling coil. But will it charge a battery?

The easiest, if you use alumunium and copper probe, you can measure about 0.4V on your skin. But will it charge a battery? Here is an example:
YouTube - Voltage of human skin

I think to charge a battery you need current. If you use electronic, you must power it, but if you use non electronic, you may need the one that produce effect even ordinary people can felt.

Thanks for clearing this up for me sucahyo.

I get a bit confused. I read people saying "Yes my Bedini circuit charges nicely. Then I read "It'll work, but the spikes have nothing to do with it, it's merely the current running through the circuit that is doing the charging, and thus the spike is inconsequential". And so, I think, after a great deal of reading, i do understand (finally) what the circuit is doing in terms of the bouncing back and forth from one side to the other, the trigerring, the transistor and or reed switch... but... what i don't understand is, this:

If claimant A says radiant energy does work, and claimant B says it is inconsequential THEN, how does claimant B explain how the battery is charged AT ALL, given: I cannot hook up a 12v to a 12v, without step up transformation (and I am assuming that a 1:1 bifilar coil is NOT step up), and have battery B charge AT ALL? Can I? I did try once and I got a leveling. Yet my SSG appears to be charging. So how can you argue that the spikes do nothing when they appear to be the ONLY thing making the difference. I don't get it. Is claimant B trying to say that the inconsequential spike is "pushing" the current over, and if so, why is he claiming it is inconsequential... very confusing indeed!

[Farmhand]

Hi kcarring, I read your post a couple of time's so forgive me if I still miss-understood, I think you mean the trifiler winding (third winding of three together). Or do you mean an actual generator coil just one long winding by itself that produce's normal power and drag on the rotor ?

If you mean the third winding of a trifiler coil I think it can put out almost pure radiant energy or some of both depending on the machine and how it's tuned. Even if it is constructed and tuned to produce the good stuff it is my belief that when the spikes hit the battery or impedance they cause a corrosponding current relevent to the amplitude of the spike and the duration through the impedance, but it is so brief and sudden it can't be measured correctly and it happens inside the battery. i'm no expert mind you so i'm probably wrong about the theory but If you want to get the best from radiantly charging batteries they must be conditioned first then the spikes are more readily absorbed. These spikes can come from the diode on the negative of a bifilar coil or both ends of a trifilar coil through a bridge rectifier.

Then there is cap pulsing, I can assure you the 3.5 amp current pulse I seen caused by the dumping of a bedini charged capacitor bank- 75 000uf at 25v was real. And it charged the battery. I would encourage you to keep experimenting. The way you are thinking about it is very good, sounds like you want to understand it as much as I do and many others. Keep playing withe SSG. I still use mine for battery maintainance charge's, it's very effective at perking up declining batteries overnight.

Cheers

[kcarring]

Hi kcarring, I read your post a couple of time's so forgive me if I still miss-understood, I think you mean the trifiler winding (third winding of three together). ~~~ Keep playing withe SSG. I still use mine for battery maintainance charge's, it's very effective at perking up declining batteries overnight. Cheers

I think i need to do just as you say, keep playing with it. You know... I don't claim anything but I'll tellya what... if this technology can charge batteries BETTER at a lower current input, than traditional means, then that in itself is HUGE to us solar guys, overunity or not! Maybe people don't see that. (Bedini SSG) - Overunity or not, solar has it's low current times. Worse, it has it's undervoltage times... and then your totally at a point of "wasted lumens" if you will, zero getting done. Anyone who has lived off solar knows what I'm talking about, it's frustrating!!!!

So I'm going to continue with Bedini education despite some obviously very experienced guys here saying it is fraud etc. etc.

Honestly, I listen to John, and he just doesn't seem like the fraudulent or completely out of his mind type, he really doesn't. Not like that Dennis Lee loser. Nor does he seem like (Him and Rick) are making much off of selling us kits. In fact, he's not even much of a salesmen. Tom, well, he's over my head. Interesting as heck to listen to though! If he even gets young college students to think outside the box, I think his life mission was accomplished, right there. Further to that, you know... I thought what the heck I'll buy a kit from Rick right... sure, I can go buy this crap on my own I DON'T HAVE TO... but hey their gonna throw in this nice little PCB, so i end up with more than a dead bug on my desk, cool... and you know what... he threw in a bunch of free magnets for me. 8 in fact. Fraud? Why would a company based on fraud be throwing stuff in for free. Over time if it works well, it'll prove itself in the solar community. It's measurable (albeit not scientifically perhaps) in that you grow very accustomed to EXACTLY how much consumption you can "endure" -- any significant increase means more work done by appliances. One cell goes down, you notice.

[sucahyo]

I still seeking for answer my self but for this question:

given: I cannot hook up a 12v to a 12v, without step up transformation (and I am assuming that a 1:1 bifilar coil is NOT step up), and have battery B charge AT ALL?

SSG has same principle of buck-boost converter. It can vary output voltage depend on load. SSG can act as step up or step down transformer even without secondary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck–boost_converter

So it is a known phenomena. I can charge 12V with 3V, or 3V with 12V.

if this technology can charge batteries BETTER at a lower current input, than traditional means, then that in itself is HUGE to us solar guys, overunity or not! Maybe people don't see that. (Bedini SSG) - Overunity or not, solar has it's low current times. Worse, it has it's undervoltage times... and then your totally at a point of "wasted lumens" if you will, zero getting done. Anyone who has lived off solar knows what I'm talking about, it's frustrating!!!!

Yes, Bedini circuit is very usefull in that situation.

[kcarring]

sucahyo, once again, thank you for your help

[Farmhand]

I think i need to do just as you say, keep playing with it. You know... I don't claim anything but I'll tellya what... if this technology can charge batteries BETTER at a lower current input, than traditional means, then that in itself is HUGE to us solar guys, overunity or not! Maybe people don't see that. (Bedini SSG) - Overunity or not, solar has it's low current times. Worse, it has it's undervoltage times... and then your totally at a point of "wasted lumens" if you will, zero getting done. Anyone who has lived off solar knows what I'm talking about, it's frustrating!!!!

So I'm going to continue with Bedini education despite some obviously very experienced guys here saying it is fraud etc. etc.

Honestly, I listen to John, and he just doesn't seem like the fraudulent or completely out of his mind type, he really doesn't. Not like that Dennis Lee loser. Nor does he seem like (Him and Rick) are making much off of selling us kits. In fact, he's not even much of a salesmen. Tom, well, he's over my head. Interesting as heck to listen to though! If he even gets young college students to think outside the box, I think his life mission was accomplished, right there. Further to that, you know... I thought what the heck I'll buy a kit from Rick right... sure, I can go buy this crap on my own I DON'T HAVE TO... but hey their gonna throw in this nice little PCB, so i end up with more than a dead bug on my desk, cool... and you know what... he threw in a bunch of free magnets for me. 8 in fact. Fraud? Why would a company based on fraud be throwing stuff in for free. Over time if it works well, it'll prove itself in the solar community. It's measurable (albeit not scientifically perhaps) in that you grow very accustomed to EXACTLY how much consumption you can "endure" -- any significant increase means more work done by appliances. One cell goes down, you notice.

It's very good to see you are prepared to investigate and arrive at your own conclusions, it's obvious to me you won't be hoodwinked.

Yes I agree c.o.p. >1 is not necessary even if it is possible.

I think of it like this. If your ssg uses 200Ma at 12v and half is converted to Flyback, CEMF, BEMF or radiant energy or whatever you like to call it then that half 100Ma is applied in 1/3 of the amount of time it was used at, by way of 400+ volt spike's it would be very hard to measure the current it caused if it did cause any, because it would happen so quick the peak current would be high but increadibly brief, just say for example at 60Hz 1/3 coil charge 1/3 coil discharge and 1/3 rest time the spike is applied to the battery in 0.005 of a second every 0.016 of a second, if my sums are correct (don't trust my sums ) from a much higher voltage. While at the same time some normal DC also flows.

I'm sure someone with the learning could do some calculations to work out the actual power delivered I have no idea how to do that.

Having said all that if the battery impedeance is not sufficiently matched to the spike or vice versa the power transfer will not be so good, if the spike is too weak in amplitude or too brief for the battery it will not be absorbed properly, this is why cap pulsing can work for machine's that are not constructed or tuned correctly for the battery being charged. If the spike is too powerfull for the battery or if the battery is too sulfated a spike too powerfull can easily damge something because of it being reflected. It is real voltage with real potential, if used right it can do much more than most might think.

IF your reliant on solar you can also build something similar to what I did, it works quite well in low light. Check it out it one version incorperate's a bedini oscillator to force pulsing from the main caps. It also improves batteries a bit.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-variants.html

considering with my cheapo charge controller when the sun gets so low my panel output won't charge anymore not enough current, then I swap to my setup and it starts pulse charging the battery successfully, I think it's pretty good. You might think of a better way to do it.

Cheers.

[kcarring]

That's great, thank you. I like to keep an open mind. Though electronics is new to me, it's something I need to know. So I'm bread boarding a bunch of conventional circuits as well to understand, you know, how an NPN works in a particularily normal circuit, as well. People will always tell you - oh you can't do that, and then sometimes, you do accomplish something. I once got told, oh, you can't burn wet birch, actually, you can. Not only that, you put a moisture trap in a chimney elbow, harvest the birch resin and then treat wood with it, or even fire it as a fuel with HHO. Everything, offers something, if only a learning experience. Thanks again.

[Jbignes5]

Another good argument.

You know a Bedini ssg unit is not the the focus in that system. The battery is. We sometimes take for granted that a system would be focused on the system but it is not the case here. SSG's were designed to focus on the batteries. Let a flow happen and interrupt that flow in a timed manner and inertia of the internal structure of that battery carries you on to the next interruption. They are chemical batteries. They have an internal flow in the chemicals of the electrolyte. This is a real flow not an electrical one. One might call it surging.

This flow can even happen in a non liquid form of batteries but it is not as prominent as a liquid battery.

This is just the physical side of the system. The other side is the ebb and flow of energy and how we use it to get a reaction from the physical part of our system.

The SSG does work and it works well. Don't let others dissuade you from what you are seeing. I am also thinking of getting the kit because I don't want to be redesigning what already works well. Plus my building coil skills are extremely low atm and it would be nice to have the kit to repair my old batteries.

[Zooty]

Where is the current coming from?

In a well tuned SSG, you will see some current flow going to the charging battery. This current can not be coming from the run battery because there is a diode blocking it and the charge battery is connected the wrong way round. Think about it, when the coil collapses, the coil becomes the dipole (battery) with a potential difference of around 300v. The dipole pushes electrons already present in the copper wire and the battery, this is the current flow you see. All of this happens only when the transistor is in an off state and the run battery is essentially disconnected.

[sucahyo]

In a well tuned SSG, you will see some current flow going to the charging battery. This current can not be coming from the run battery because there is a diode blocking it and the charge battery is connected the wrong way round. Think about it, when the coil collapses, the coil becomes the dipole (battery) with a potential difference of around 300v. The dipole pushes electrons already present in the copper wire and the battery, this is the current flow you see. All of this happens only when the transistor is in an off state and the run battery is essentially disconnected.

SSG must be tuned to get charge, but other kind of circuit do not have to be well tuned to do charging. Circuit must have some left over voltage to charge the battery, SSG also use them to turn the rotor.

The connection is not wrong, it is correct. The diode is not blocking, it is directing coil collapse current to charging battery and prevent the charging battery to power the coil. You can test it with a coil, neon bulb and 12V battery. Or smaller version, a coil, a LED and 1.5V battery.

Connect the LED and the coil in parallel, then connect to 1.5V battery. Then try to see what kind of polarity can make the LED lit if you open the loop.

[Zooty]

SSG must be tuned to get charge, but other kind of circuit do not have to be well tuned to do charging. Circuit must have some left over voltage to charge the battery, SSG also use them to turn the rotor.

The connection is not wrong, it is correct. The diode is not blocking, it is directing coil collapse current to charging battery and prevent the charging battery to power the coil. You can test it with a coil, neon bulb and 12V battery. Or smaller version, a coil, a LED and 1.5V battery.

Connect the LED and the coil in parallel, then connect to 1.5V battery. Then try to see what kind of polarity can make the LED lit if you open the loop.

What i meant was, the batteries are connected in such a way that there is no way a higher voltage run battery could directly charge the charging battery because the charge battery is conventionally connected wrong. It's negative is connected to the run positive as well as its positive via the diode and coil. Obviously, the coil becomes the source of charge (dipole) during the transistors off state. You contradicted yourself by saying the diode is not blocking. It is otherwise like you say, the charge battery would be short across the coil. Follow the current from the positive terminal of the run battery. It cannot go to the negative of the charge battery although there is a connection there because the diode is blocking it on the other side of the charge battery. It cannot go through the coil and the charge battery because the other side of the charge battery is connected to where the current originated from. If the diode was not there, when the transistor switched on, the two batteries would be connected in series, no current would flow through the coil and the transistor would get very hot if not die.

[Farmhand]

What i meant was, the batteries are connected in such a way that there is no way a higher voltage run battery could directly charge the charging battery because the charge battery is conventionally connected wrong. It's negative is connected to the run positive as well as its positive via the diode and coil. Obviously, the coil becomes the source of charge (dipole) during the transistors off state. You contradicted yourself by saying the diode is not blocking. It is otherwise like you say, the charge battery would be short across the coil.

Hi Zooty, Yes you are right, I can only surmise that the current must come from the potential in the coil being released into the battery. And that what you measure is only the part the meter can register. But I must ask how many currents are in the whole system ? And where are they manifested and measured ? The current in any dc circuit drops over distance. Current is just the resultant effect of the equalisation of potentials. It happens at different rate's that are not necessarily linear, and so would be difficult to detect fully if the current is changing at a rate the meter is not designed to read or if it is changing in a way the meter is not designed to read. I guess.

Thats how I understand it anyway, as much as I would like to understand it more it's not really that important that I do, because i just use it cause it works.

Cheers

[sucahyo]

Ok, zooty I get your point. The other point I want to mention is other radiant circuit do not need to be tuned to charge the load.