Bedini Earth Light

[ibpointless2]

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Im not saying Reid cells contain water and that is why they work, Reid cell contain no water. But water is needed to make the cell but once the cell is hard water does not exist in the cell. Water is needed to combine the ingredients, but not needed to keep the cell going.

If water is needed to combine the ingredients for fabrication, or as with the Epsom type cells we are making that contain water, how can you say there is no fluid trapped in the crystal lattice?
I thought I had a completely desiccated tube cell. A short interlude with a very intense blow torch proved this false. Water may be trapped in the crystal.
Again, I would say a negative pressure test in a vacuum chamber would be of diagnostic aid. I will be subjecting some of my pile cells to such treatment.
They also bounce back after shorting, but may be imbibing ambient moisture.
They appear dry as a bone, hard as a rock.
Is it true that positive ions can only exist is liquid or gaseous state?
If so, either plasma or moisture would account.
Please let us know if the Marcus Reid cell has no form of trapped microscopic moisture within the lattice, and if so how one can test this.
I know seemingly my cells do bounce back and seem dry.
The smallest addition and I mean tiny tiny addition to a cell that seem lower in volts jumps up with microdrop of hydration.
My attempts will use vacuum. Other suggestions welcome.
Very Best Regards,
Jim[/QUOTE]



It doesn't matter if the crystal has water in the lattice, the electrons flow around the outside of the crystal on the skin of the crystal.

[John_Bedini]

Crystal Cells/Water

Ibpointlass2,
It is not important that water is trapped in the crystal lattice as it is. The water is locked up and can not get out unless it is forced out by heat.
The Reid cell does have trapped water within the lattice but it is in a state that keeps it locked up, so no Ion movement at all. Sealing Wax keeps it from outside moisture. We have some Star cells that work very well with water and yet it looks like it is very dry. The star cell uses the water for Ion movement but the crystal just locks it up for a long time so the cell keeps running. This cell is using the Epsom Salts in heated dry form along with the Rochelle Salts all heated together, no doping it does not need it. I have been adding two to three drops of water every 10 days and I find no corrosion between the Copper and Magnesium at all. I just keep running the power oscillator with double Led lights. Here is something to consider, The Alum cells keep growing and soon it will run out of space so you can't contain them in a small area. So using water is not a bad thing if it does not corrode. The Magnesium builds it's own oxide layer to protect it, the heated copper already has one. Between the two cells they are going to run for a very long time, years. The other thing is that the star cell can sit and do nothing until you want to use it. Looking at the dry crystal under a Microscope shows a unique bubble type lattice with holes through it. Just something to think about.
John B

[NextGen1967]

Crystal Cells/Water

Ibpointlass2,
It is not important that water is trapped in the crystal lattice as it is. The water is locked up and can not get out unless it is forced out by heat.
The Reid cell does have trapped water within the lattice but it is in a state that keeps it locked up, so no Ion movement at all. Sealing Wax keeps it from outside moisture. We have some Star cells that work very well with water and yet it look like it is very dry. The star cell uses the water for Ion movement but the crystal just locks it up for a long time so the cell keeps running. This cell is using the Epsom Salts in heated dry form along with the Rochelle Salts all heated together, no doping it does not need it. I have been adding two to three drops of water every 10 days and I find no corrosion between the Copper and Magnesium at all. I just keep running the power oscillator with double Led lights. Here is something to consider, The Alum cells keep growing and soon it will run out of space so you can't contain them in a small area. So using water is not a bad thing if it does not corrode. The Magnesium builds it's own oxide layer to protect it, the heated copper already has one. Between the two cells they are going to run for a very long time, years. The other thing is that the star cell can sit and do nothing until you want to use it. Looking at the dry crystal under a Microscope shows a unique bubble type lattice with holes through it. Just something to think about.
John B

Yes, the trapped water is no problem, I understand what you mean with the hole like bubble structure, and get what you point to.

But John, That small layer 'in-between' you were talking about, that could be seen/interpreted as a diffusion area? Because if the electrons keep running, I can imagine that this is because of a particular reason... They need 'some' stimulation to get in motion - right ?

--
Ron.

[jehdds]

Ibpointlass2,
It is not important that water is trapped in the crystal lattice as it is. The water is locked up and can not get out unless it is forced out by heat.
The Reid cell does have trapped water within the lattice but it is in a state that keeps it locked up, so no Ion movement at all. Sealing Wax keeps it from outside moisture. We have some Star cells that work very well with water and yet it look like it is very dry. The star cell uses the water for Ion movement but the crystal just locks it up for a long time so the cell keeps running. I have been adding two to three drops of water every 10 days and I find no corrosion between the Copper and Magnesium at all.
John B

John,
I too concur there is no visible deterioration to the magnesium or copper in the ZnO based cells. I sincerely appreciate your clarification between the star cell and Marcus Reid cell. If I understand the above, there is a fundamental difference in how the two cells function.

Ionic movement with the star cell, no ionic movement
With the Marcus Reid cell.

Is the difference due to one being sealed and one open?

I can see ionic movement as a logical mechanism.
I am trying to see how non ionic cell functions electrochemically/dynamically.
Any insight into this would be of infinite help for us
Trying to match or get close to what
You describe the MR cell can do.
I do not wish you to reveal any constituent chemicals at all.
Just what is zipping around the crystals and metallic electrodes that
Allows for non ionic electrical production.

Is it microscopic piezo resonance thus ZPE possible influx?
I am hypothesizing that may be the case.
I am in no way trying to interfere with your contract with MR,
Rather just trying to help all with this endeavor,
by making my findings open.
I am simply trying to rule out conventional wisdom on the electrochemistry of
How these cells work. I know it is not galvanic.

Very Best Regards,
And again deepest appreciation for your guidance and
Feedback to our work.
It is of great character and uncommon convention to share as much as you have. I sincerely hope that others will also follow in that vein to make open finds that will move all towards expanding
their minds to potentials we can only dream of.

Jim

[Lidmotor]

Man the bilge pumps--WATER COMING IN!!!!!

@ All
I did a number of tests with my new LED oscillator that runs on very very low power and found out that just a small amount of water coming into the dissimilar metal environment starts a galvanic reaction----at least in the cells that I have built. I am calling this a "galvanic reaction" but perhaps it is a name that doesn't quite fit. After reading John's description of how his star crystal cells are working maybe I have jumped to the wrong conclusion. All I know is that only a tiny amount of free H2O around and something starts going on.

Here is a video of my Penny No. 2 running on micro amp power using an iron pyrite rock and a small piece of Mg with point contact on a damp piece of paper.

Penny No. 2 ---running on iron pyrite and magnesium microamp power.ASF - YouTube

@IB
I hope that your suggestion of freezing the cells to rule out a water only reaction works. If those things come out of the freezer with zero volts showing I'll be really sad but not surprised. Heat and humidity are the two things that I have discovered most effect the cells I have built.

Lidmotor

[jehdds]

@IB
I hope that your suggestion of freezing the cells to rule out a water only reaction works. If those things come out of the freezer with zero volts showing I'll be really sad but not surprised. Heat and humidity are the two things that I have discovered most effect the cells I have built.

Lidmotor[/QUOTE]

Dear lidmotor,
Do not be Suprised If voltage decreases. Check current.
Freezing does not eliminate water, only slows
Reaction. True test for galvanic is observation of deterioation if
Metal via pitting.
If piezo, even low temps would allow for HV.
I look forward to what your low temp tests
Show.
Very best regards,
Jim

[quantumuppercut]

...
Here is a video of my Penny No. 2 running on micro amp power using an iron pyrite rock and a small piece of Mg with point contact on a damp piece of paper.

...

Lidmotor

I think this is a nice setup for galvanic inspection. Since the magnesium tip is pointy , we can let the circuit run on that point and inspect tip corrosion to see if it's galvanic or oxide conduction. Still kinda need a microscope.

[NickZ]

Time Will Tell...

Ok, my turn:
I am also a bit disappointed to find that my Quartz/Carbon cells are also dropping in voltage and current levels, although the leds are still lit, but they are a bit dimmer. So, I decided to open one of my original cells that has been running non stop for about three weeks. I found that the inside of the aluminum can was totally covered with a thick white powdery oxide or sulfate layer, which is eating the aluminum and has also pitted almost through the aluminum capacitor can.
The problem is the contaminated carbon from the batteries, so, I'm looking into other foams of carbon now, for making the same quartz/carbon type cell, without the caustic chemicals.
I don't recommend trying to follow what I did earlier, by using the used carbon/zinc battery carbon, even thought it works well, but will self destruct the aluminum can of the cells (sacrificial cathode) in a month or so.
So, I DO NOT recommend the used battery materials, as they are extremely caustic, and can be dangerous as well.
The Carbon/Quartz electrolyte and the use of carbon rods, and the aluminum capacitor cans does work, if you can avoid that old Galvanic reaction.
I think that the solution for a dry solid electrolyte is that it must be adhered or fused onto the metals in such a way that no air, or humidity of any kind, can get between the electrolyte and metals surfaces.
Seams like the glue cells don't oxidize simply because no air can get to the metals., especially when they are encased in resin, etz...
I am paying attention, John... Darn! if you're not right most of the time.
Thanks to all for your contributions to this thread.
NZ

[John_Bedini]

MR Crystal Cells

@ all,

I know that the questions keep coming, but I can only say so much about all of this. Marcus Reid cells do contain water but again it is locked up in a crystal form and that bond can not be broken. The cell is purely Electron movement and it can reverse at any time.

From what I can see is that two semiconductors are working here. almost like a PN junction in a solar cell. Ambient heat does play a part in this. Water is out of the question because if he did not seal them the cell does not last for any length of time, I can see this with other cells too.

Whatever this radiation is entering the cell we have no instruments to measure it. I have sample pieces of material as he sent them to me. I can take the material and just put a piece of copper and a piece of aluminum on it and it gives about 1.3 volts at very low current 1Ma.

I also did say that the material can be found in nature but I guess no body is listening to what I have said about this. But even if I get the material I only find one type that even gives any voltage, but only when the two pieces of metal have that oxide layer on them. So it really does not make any difference if it is electroplated or heated. Microvolt is by far in the correct direction with this link. DARPA: Energy Harvesting Using Rectennas Basically it is a harvesting antenna complete with it's own energy generation system.

The energy generation seems to be within the lattice itself, you must look at this as a other dimension in witch the conversion is taking place.

Normally we do not think with this in mind, but you must if it is going to work like his cell. You just can not find this in books, only in quantum mechanics can this be found. In other words, like from a space state to a gas state and then to a solid state and bang the energy is translated to electron movement. Ions can be either or in this cell.

I have had these discussions with Marcus Reid as he has said He just does not know where the energy comes from. In his cell the electrons are passing ships and the waves they generate form a differential current as the two bow waves meet, this is the energy we use in everyday life, or Electricity.

So I do not expect to get everybody to understand this. Another way to understand this is Scalar waves, meaningless until they couple to form EM energy. With Em energy we understand and can use it.

I will say this is beyond anything we would normally work with in everyday life as we have only been taught the basics even if you think it is advanced. I would say more if I could as other processes are at work here when he builds his cells and time is the most important process with his mixtures.

Try to understand two ships passing at very fast speed, they both are making a wake and when they couple after the ships leave that is the energy you collect in a continues loop. Call this all BS if you want but that is how it works.
John B

[John_Bedini]

things to try Nick Z

Ok, my turn:
I am also a bit disappointed to find that my Quartz/Carbon cells are also dropping in voltage and current levels, although the leds are still lit, but they are a bit dimmer. So, I decided to open one of my original cells that has been running non stop for about three weeks. I found that the inside of the aluminum can was totally covered with a thick white powdery oxide or sulfate layer, which is eating the aluminum and has also pitted almost through the aluminum capacitor can.
The problem is the contaminated carbon from the batteries, so, I'm looking into other foams of carbon now, for making the same quartz/carbon type cell, without the caustic chemicals.
I don't recommend trying to follow what I did earlier, by using the used carbon/zinc battery carbon, even thought it works well, but will self destruct the aluminum can of the cells (sacrificial cathode) in a month or so.
So, I DO NOT recommend the used battery materials, as they are extremely caustic, and can be dangerous as well.
The Carbon/Quartz electrolyte and the use of carbon rods, and the aluminum capacitor cans does work, if you can avoid that old Galvanic reaction.
I think that the solution for a dry solid electrolyte is that it must be adhered or fused onto the metals in such a way that no air, or humidity of any kind, can get between the electrolyte and metals surfaces.
Seams like the glue cells don't oxidize simply because no air can get to the metals., especially when they are encased in resin, etz...
I am paying attention, John... Darn! if you're not right most of the time.
Thanks to all for your contributions to this thread.
NZ

NickZ,
Do not give up try to find pure things to work with, hell man nobody has built batteries like this group did. It may only look like a failure until you discover the right oxide for the aluminum. "Something to think about". Everybody has herd of Anti Seize for spark plugs right? Ok Nick here is the thing to try to keep your aluminum cans from corroding and try adding some of that to your mixture and cook it, you know heat it. Chuck has one of these running and it is working great.
John B

[NickZ]

John:
Thanks for the suggestion. I will not give up, as the cells do work, and are still working. You did tell me what I had to do to clean the carbon of the caustic contaminents that it has in it.
Making my own clean carbon plate or carbon rods, by combining crushed carbon with a little linseed oil, and mineral spirits to thin the oil, should work. I'll also look for the plug anti seize and give Chucks cell a try.
Maybe let me know what that plug anti seize is called, or how to find it, as I'm not familiar with it.

BTW: I like the dissimilar metals antenna idea, as it is similar to what I had in mind. Even if we can't measure the input, you know something has to be coming into a cell, especially when the electrodes are not being consumed.
Thanks again,
Nick

[Slider2732]

I had a great time watching that live feed on the crystal battery build thread this evening. They kindly tried passing a full on Tesla towers plasma arcs through a couple of John Bedini's cells
If they have the feed backed up and can edit it (or do edit it) then it makes for great viewing. The plasma shot those cells in a big way !
A blue area was found on one cell...which to me looked like some kind of semiconductor layer, or, should I say, an area that had so much energy passing through the poor thing that it barriered.
Most importantly, perhaps, was that after all the firings at it with that huge energy, the one they measured the output of before the event was still showing 1.60V


Preliminary research here and I don't have the figures to hand nor am any form of chemist, but I was looking at molecular spacings of different materials late one night.
A simple thought...the gaps between layers of molecules may be important for energy and water molecule transmission ? If a substance has a molecular density less than another molecule, that second molecule may be able to be transmitted through the natural gaps of the first, with the first unaffected.
In such a way, the ions can flow in a crystal cell, but the water molecules cannot.
For the ship analogy, the boat is always on the water, the wake of the passing boats is the ion flow. One boat cannot sink lower or rise out of the water because of the constant density of the boats..

[NextGen1967]

@John : MR Crystal cells

@John,

Thank you.

Ok, so if I understand it, optimally, we would need to get the cell together in several steps...

First we need to process each electrode, in such a way that it can withstand corrosion.

At the same time, when the electrodes are finished and put in use, they will be like a 'buffer' system (adjusting the load) towards the crystal material between the electrodes.

I assume that between these electrodes and the Crystal, an 'diffusion area' is in place, and here the conversion to the EM wave happens.

( @ John: I have an idea yes of what you mean with an EM wave coming into existence in the cell, which in most simple terms would be two 'pieces' of 'modified' space which together form an EM wave .. The first 'modified' piece of space was due to the crystal, the 2nd one is coming from outside of the cell. I won't call it BS, but just a change of mind state? )

The crystal itself would need to have surface tension, which is achieved by heating the crystal mix and letting it slowly cool down in a particular order, while there should be an E-field applied -at least during cool down, but preferable during the heating process also-. (There might be one more additional process in order). By using the right dopant, the crystal could be optimized and the surface tension could be greatly increased (difference between old style and new style MR cells ?) This process can be painstakingly and if you make an error, the cell most likely will not work at all, or with very bad performance. ( i DO have some experience in this area )

I lack materials at the moment, but as soon as I have materials, will also make an sample cell.

John, your view on this to correct possible mistakes/miss-thinking's ?

--
Ron.

[Lidmotor]

Frozen cells

@IB
I did the cell freezing test that you recommended and your "stove top" cell came out as the winner. It dropped down slightly but was still strong enough to run an LED oscillator even when ice cold. The other cells that I tried stopped producing until they warmed back up. Thanks for the idea.

@John B.
I tried making a simple sodium silicate and Rochelle salt cell (outside in the open air) and it kinda worked. It is very hard to cook the water out just right.

@quantumuppercut
That idea that I showed in the video of just using the tip of the Mg ribbon actually seems to work rather well. I don't know why but I looked at the tip of the Mg ribbon after about 6 hours and saw very little errosion. I quess that is what happens when the amp draw is way way low.



Lidmotor

[Slider2732]

@Lidmotor - Here's something similar to your magnesium tip experiment.
I've got one cell that is made in a 12oz water bottle top, a piece of galvanised steel is in there as negative metal but no positive metal. If I use my Ha'penny oscillator, with 1 strand of approx 28 gauge copper wire as the positive connection to it, the oscillator will fire up. The single copper wire is from a computer hard drive/CD-rom cable.

In theory, but not tried, we could make cells with no metals, just use a copper wire connection to the load on the positive and a steel wire connection as the negative
By so doing, nothing corrodes either.